Maclean’s asks if U of T is “too Asian”
Apparently, the arrival of excellent students is a problem in Canada’s universities. The 20th edition of Maclean’s University Guide issue hits newsstands tomorrow, asking, among other things, whether Canada’s top post-secondary institutions are being disrupted by an influx of high-achieving, hard-working students. This would normally not be a controversy, but the weekly magazine is focused on one kind of student (those of Asian descent) and one university (University of Toronto).
When Alexandra and her friend Rachel, both graduates of Toronto’s Havergal College, an all-girls private school, were deciding which university to go to, they didn’t even bother considering the University of Toronto. “The only people from our school who went to U of T were Asian,” explains Alexandra, a second-year student who looks like a girl from an Aritzia billboard. “All the white kids,” she says, “go to Queen’s, Western and McGill.”
Alexandra eventually chose the University of Western Ontario. Her younger brother, now a high school senior deciding where he’d like to go, will head “either east, west or to McGill”—unusual academic options, but in keeping with what he wants from his university experience. “East would suit him because it’s chill, out west he could be a ski bum,” says Alexandra, who explains her little brother wants to study hard, but is also looking for a good time—which rules out U of T, a school with an academic reputation that can be a bit of a killjoy.
We weren’t aware of U of T’s reputation as a killjoy, what with the high density of bars and clubs a short distance from the downtown campus.
The article isn’t entirely about U of T; Waterloo and UBC also get mentions as hard-working schools where white kids just can’t keep up with those Asians. Of course, there is a nasty side to all of this. One Asian student talks about getting yelled at by a white parent for taking her son’s spot in university. (Gee, multiculturalism isn’t flawless—stop the presses.)
Part of the problem is that when discussing this stuff, it’s easy to make rookie mistakes, like when the Toronto Star, bouncing off the Maclean’s article, contrasts “Chinese-Canadians” with “those born in Canada,” as if many, many people weren’t both. Maclean’s, using the same data, was much more careful in its wording.
At least nobody’s gone for the cheap laugh and joked that Maclean’s let Rob Ford guest-edit the university issue. Oh, wait.
• ‘Too Asian’? [Macleans]
• Asian students being forced into university: Maclean’s [Toronto Star]
![](http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https://torontolife.com/city/macleans-asks-if-u-of-t-is-too-asian/&title=Maclean’s asks if U of T is “too Asian”&picture=https://torontolife.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/UofT.jpg&description=[caption id="attachment_46619" align="alignleft" width="320" caption="University College at the University of Toronto (Image: Cameron MacMaster, from the Toronto Life Flickr pool) "][/caption]
Apparently, the arrival of excellent students is a problem in Canada’s universities. The 20th edition of Maclean’s University Guide issue hits newsstands tomorrow, asking, among other things, whether Canada’s top post-secondary institutions are being disrupted by an influx of high-achieving, hard-working students. This would normally not be a controversy, but the weekly magazine is focused on one kind of student (those of Asian descent) and one university (University of Toronto).
When Alexandra and her friend Rachel, both graduates of Toronto’s Havergal College, an all-girls private school, were deciding which university to go to, they didn’t even bother considering the University of Toronto. “The only people from our school who went to U of T were Asian,” explains Alexandra, a second-year student who looks like a girl from an Aritzia billboard. “All the white kids,” she says, “go to Queen’s, Western and McGill.”
Alexandra eventually chose the University of Western Ontario. Her younger brother, now a high school senior deciding where he’d like to go, will head “either east, west or to McGill”—unusual academic options, but in keeping with what he wants from his university experience. “East would suit him because it’s chill, out west he could be a ski bum,” says Alexandra, who explains her little brother wants to study hard, but is also looking for a good time—which rules out U of T, a school with an academic reputation that can be a bit of a killjoy.
We weren’t aware of U of T’s reputation as a killjoy, what with the high density of bars and clubs a short distance from the downtown campus.
The article isn’t entirely about U of T; Waterloo and UBC also get mentions as hard-working schools where white kids just can’t keep up with those Asians. Of course, there is a nasty side to all of this. One Asian student talks about getting yelled at by a white parent for taking her son’s spot in university. (Gee, multiculturalism isn't flawless—stop the presses.)
Part of the problem is that when discussing this stuff, it’s easy to make rookie mistakes, like when the Toronto Star, bouncing off the Maclean’s article, contrasts “Chinese-Canadians” with “those born in Canada,” as if many, many people weren’t both. Maclean’s, using the same data, was much more careful in its wording.
At least nobody’s gone for the cheap laugh and joked that Maclean’s let Rob Ford guest-edit the university issue. Oh, wait.
• ‘Too Asian’? [Macleans]
• Asian students being forced into university: Maclean's [Toronto Star]){kind=link}
Looks like excessive criticism of some ethnic groups IS allowed.
It IS too Asian. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to see yourself represented in your surroundings. Besides, Asians cluster themselves together anyway, there’s not much integration… see: Markham Ontario.
^uhm, no. I see Chinese with whites
I’m sorry to offend YOU or anyone but white kids were learned to play first and then work. In contrast with the chinese, they work and then play.
in markham Ontario, how many whites would you see sitting in the library of the school? Maybe you should do a survey first and then speak.
*in the school
Looks like someone at the magazine came to their senses and pulled the story from the website…
Whites will be a minority soon anyway. Asians – south and east – are dominating. I hate to admit it, but its true.
Looks like Macleans took the article down! Seems like the editor could not handle the press…
Whites are mad ’cause they can’t keep up, that’s evolution for you, ha!
Wow, Alexandra’s a jerk. And it looks like Maclean’s pulled the article so I can’t read up on more idiots. Who the heck goes to university to chill out?
Meh.
And Sarah, you’re kind of a jerk too.
I completely do not condone the idea that U of T is “too asian”. Personally, I feel uncomfortable in non-mixed environments. I went to U of T for undergrad in chemistry – 60-70% of the students in my program were East Asian, most of them not born here, and *gasp* I was friends with many of them and we all worked together on labs and assignments. Certainly it’s easy for groups who all speak the same language and share common culture to stick together, but it’s up to everyone to make an effort to engage each other.
There is definitely a reputation for U of T as “killjoy” school though. The U of T undergrad teaching is really bad- especially 1st and 2nd year, class sizes are huge, entrance averages are really high, programs are more rigorous than other schools, and then they set the average at 65%. If you don’t work non-stop, goodbye professional school. You can go to any other university in canada and work less for higher grades and then come back to U of T for grad school or professional school when U of T’s research excellence kicks in. Why wouldn’t you?
@Sarah: The vast majority of media (including movies, tv shows, anything news related) is white. Perhaps you don’t realize it, being white yourself, but white people are DEFINITELY represented in their surroundings, the media being one of the most pervasive influences in our lives. So don’t talk about NOT BEING REPRESENTED. But if you can’t stand the heat, go to University of Windsor. I’m sure you’ll love it there. /sarcasm
Two white girls from Havergal College….who ended up in white-wash London Ontario.
Who is really asking are Canadian Universities too Asian?: ignorant white parents who don’t realize their children aren’t qualified enough for U of T?
Or is it Macleans magazine itself picking low-hanging fruit and pandering to its key demographic?
No educated, successful, worldly person would EVER EVER EVER conclude that Canadian Universities are too Asian.
Ignorance at its core is on display here.
Congratulations Maclean’s, You really set a bar high for journalistic racism. It is really like reading off of a 1930’s Nazi propaganda article “Germany: Too Jewish?”
I don’t understand the point of this article. If Canadian culture promotes multiculturalism, then isn’t this article alienating the Chinese Canadians, by saying that “University of Toronto is too Asian.” We should never stereotype that something is too “Asian” or even too “White”. University accepts students based on their academic performance NOT on their ethnic backgrounds! It is painful to see that people are still stereotyping against minority groups in the year of 2010…especially in such a diverse country, CANADA!!
I am tired of hearing this kind of racist comments every single day in this country. In the past few years, I came to realize it was a mistake to move to Canada. You work hard to enter university, you are branded a nerd and anti-social. Racial discrimination seems to begin even before you start working. I am really, really tired of this. The bottomline is that white Canadians do not like Asians, and no matter what do they will find a way to criticize and belittle you. Time to go home, my real home in Asia.
The article was since taken down but you can read the text here:
http://www.ehdtstudios.com/2010/11/too-asian-canada-macleansca.html
canada diverse??
give me a break!
now you see how hypocrite are canadian
I sent this article to CNN, FOX, CBS and other major mass media, hoping that the american realized their pretentious neighbor.
This racist article is reposted in its entirety on this website. The original article even included a flag of China as a picture, hinting that the Asian students that it talked about were all “Chinamen”, regardless of their ethnicity or citizenship:
http://www.ehdtstudios.com/2010/11/too-asian-canada-macleansca.html
1. Those “Asians” (myself included based on this article, even though I consider myself 100% CANADIAN as I was born here in Canada) earned their spot in Canadian universities. Don’t belittle their accomplishments and everything they’ve had to do in order to get where they are.
2. It’s extremely ignorant of Maclean’s to put out an article based on overgeneralized statements of ethnicity and, when it comes down to it, stereotypes. While there may be some Asians who fit the description of extremely study-focused to the detriment of social lives and extra-curriculars, it’s certainly not everyone, or even the majority for that matter.
Honestly, Maclean’s has really lost my respect. This wasn’t insightful commentary or good journalism; it was veiled (not so subtly, I may add) dissemination of stereotypical attitudes based on flawed beliefs and prejudice.
Multiculturalism messed up our country in a big way. We’re so PC that having too many white people in a school or work environment is a problem but the opposite is supposed to be the best thing that ever happened to Canada. Please! Our country was fine without you. Anyone who considers that their true home is China, please go back. I for one will wave you away at the airport.
I’m shocked that Maclean’s would publish something using such an ignorant tone. It would’ve been one thing to publish a piece of JOURNALISM that included statistics and an investigation into why this phenomenon was happening. It’s another entirely to interview two Caucasians complaining about too many Asians and positing this as actual journalism. My, how far Maclean’s has fallen in standards. Exactly what fact checking did you do here? Is polling two people now considered a usable statistic?
And let me point out for the sake of argument that if this piece had been about too many black students or too many Jewish students, you can bet Maclean’s would have some real ‘splainin’ to do.
Let us get this straight, the cards are stacked against non Asian students now and in the future if we do not correct the ways we have been raising our children. There is no doubt as incorrect politically it is that groups stick with each other, help each other, give advantage to one another and strive to dominate it is the way of the world. Altruism has been the Wests’ downfall, fifth column groups as well that put individual economic success before the group. These groups can be found in the banking, real estate, education and development industries. Non Asian students need to act in their interests and learn to group together as well be they European, Hispanic, Black and so on. This is the future, get used to it match your adversaries with their own strategy it is the only way.
I’m a U of T grad of Irish decent. My personal experience was of heavily lopsided numbers of “asian” students in my classes, the majority of which had little or virtually no English skills, certainly nowhere near enough to get by in a Canadian University.
The result in 1 class alone was a drop-out rate well over 50% for those asian students…..but the U of T probabaly got it’s tuition fees…so no worries right? Wrong, what about letting in qualified students who can actually read English and produce the huge essays required of University students! It becomes a waste of space eventually.
It’s funny while we wring our hands at the “gaul” of a reporter telling it straight. We continue to brow beat people back into the political correctness line. To students of today and future don’t count on any institution in this country to provide protection from competition be it domestic or international, at least if you live oin the West. Compete with the same tenacity and resolve of those that believe they are superior to you and win. by the way most Asians think they are superior.
Macleans Writers: Too White.
There is nothing wrong with the system. The university admission process does not see race/ethnicity (unless you’re native) and accepts students based on academic performance and there is NOTHING wrong with that. The fact that the top performers happen to be Asian (and possibly those not from North America) should be a wake-up call to non-Asian parents and North American parents in general.
As an Asian professional, born and raised in Canada…this article is offensive. I can honestly admit that I appreciate the guidance and “pressure” asserted by my parents to ensure that their son would make something of himself with his education. Through them, I understand the value of hard work, discipline and therefore…success. I grew up in a very traditional household and although I’m not traditional by any means…I can see the benefits of this philosophy of parenting. I am grateful to my parents for their sacrifice and my upbringing.
Most of the commentators here are missing the issue.
Culturally there is a huge divide between (most) Asians and everyone else. They have different interests. They have different social norms. They have been brought up with different values.
One polarizing example: They don’t party the same way. They’re generally much more conservative. Casual sex / dance-floor hookups are rare, and yes those things do constitute fun, and are part of a ‘good’ University experience.
When some kids play hockey, Asia kids study.
When some kids go to party, Asia kids study.
When some kids watch TV, Asia kids study.
When some kids hang out, Asia kids study.
High school is just 4 years. Some kids relax 4 years, Asia kids study 4 years.
Universities are academy places, not sport training centers, or something else.
“Too Asian” or just has too many students who are actually willing to study and learn something? If those students happen to be Asian… too bad for the white kiddies. Don’t cry when the most lucrative job positions are all taken up by non-whites: they actually worked to get them while you were so concerned about the best place to party, preferably surrounded by the members of your own race.
I hope McLean’s simply picked a couple of typical no-brains spoiled brats to interview. Likely they have. I’ve heard some interesting stories about Havergal College. I knew someone who claimed Havergal gave her tuition breaks (if not an outright scholarship) to get her to stay there because they wanted to retain some of their smarter students. And, well, what can I say… she was not exactly very smart. At all. Was pretty damn stupid, actually. Tells you something about the rest of Havergal-gals, doesn’t it?
@sarah, I’m sorry, multiculturalism scewed up “our” country? I agree that multiculturalism as a term is a problem because it disguises many forms of racism, but I doubt that’s what you are saying. You are saying, multiculturalism, aka people of colour coming to Canada, ruined your country? I’m assuming you are writing as a white person. You talk as if white people were the first people here, which is the great white lie. Your comments are the epitome of white supremacy because, embedded within them you fail to acknowledge thousands of years of Indigenous peoples living here just fine before white people came along and ruined everything. So you wanna talk about multiculturalism ruining this country, perhaps you should include white people in that characterization, and instead of calling it multiculturalism, call it imperialism, colonization, genocide. Turtle Island was better off without YOU. But it’s important for you to know that we’ve had people of colour here long before we ever had a term like multiculturalism to define it, and these folks have been used and abused by white people for centuries.
“The bottomline is that white Canadians do not like Asians, and no matter what do they will find a way to criticize and belittle you. Time to go home, my real home in Asia.”
No! Whites dont like Asians. Here in the US we have whole community of whites fleeing smart Asians. Try Littleton or Evergreen, CO made up of bitter whites fleeing California and from smart Asians.
“Please! Our country was fine without you. Anyone who considers that their true home is China, please go back. I for one will wave you away at the airport.”
As long as you take back the 300,000 or so white Canadians living or working in Asia, it will be a fair exchange!
Many east asians go U of T because asian really care more about the name of the school than most other things. Is really about pride for them, and by telling other parents that their kids are going U of T, it makes them feel good. I know this for a fact! There is your answer. I’d say Macleans is correct in this branding.
chephy, try a little harder to not be such a jackass….I’ll say it again…who does it benefit to let asians in that can’t speak English, is this what Canadian education is about, giving to those that don’t deserve it? What’s the point in watching a huge asian drop-out rate in North America grow?
Admitted due to merits my rear-end…..the University gets it’s money, and half-way through the school year the class is half empty because the asian kids can’t write a University level essay!!!!!!
@Todd M
There is something ironic about somebody criticizing the fact that other people can’t speak English in posts written with horrendous grammar.
I’ll be the First Nations people are always thinking like:
“Please! Our country was fine without you. Anyone who considers that their true home is England/Spain/France, please go back. I for one will wave you away at the airport.”
Ya…white people have no right to make statements like above. White people are immigrants like most other ethnic groups except for the First Nations.
I for one, believe that those Havergal girls are sheltered in their own elitist worlds…and hardly a sample of what the majority of students think and speak like. Obviously…higher level academics don’t speak like:
“East would suit him because it’s chill, out west he could be a ski bum,”
Truth is, that Waterloo and U of T have a very strong reputation and are well-recognized in research and academics…so why wouldn’t students who are high-achievers looking for a top-notch education and degree, want to be there? To me, to say that you won’t go to these schools because it’s too “Asian” is a cop-out. It’s more like…you couldn’t get in or don’t think you’d survive while “swimming with the sharks”, so therefore it’s all of the sudden…too “Asian”.
You go to university to learn…not to “be a ski bum” and certainly not to experience the nightlife. If that’s what your intentions are…Asian or non-Asian…you’re in the wrong place. Give your spot in your program up to someone who actually cares about getting a higher education…who may well be…Asian.
Can we please stop tiptoeing the fine line of political correctness? As a U of T grad, I know first hand that this is in fact a valid talking point and not a racist rant. I do not have any doubt that Asian students are harder working and more intelligent that their white counterparts and very deserving of their place in the university. However, as other have notes, Asian students associate only with other Asian students, join Asian student associations and speak almost exclusively in their native tongue, all of which contribute to a not so collegial environment.
Since the article refers to the US frequently may I say this: Can we please stop tiptoeing the fine line of political correctness? As a college grad from both Canada and the US, I know first hand that this is in fact a valid talking point and not a racist rant. I do not have any doubt that white students party a lot and study little. However, many white students at least here in the US only associate with other white students, join white fraternities and sororities and thumb their noses at other people, all of which contribute to a not so collegial environment.
“Too” and “asian”–
Too asian for whom? Has anyone even asked what kind of criteria, what possible yardstick, with which the question, “is U of T too asian?” might be adjudicated?
The answer would likely be, “a racist one.”
George – we are talking about the University of Toronto and my comment is confined to that institution.
^Shut up, you still got owned.
I am very sad to see the publishers / editors to allow this thing to be published. Then I would say the media is too white dominated, and this country is not far away from Nazi at the end.
@sarah
Yes, my true home is Hong Kong. So what? Hong kong is richer and much more advanced than Canada in every single aspect (check the statistics produced by various international agencies). I do not want to live in Canada, which to me is just a filthy dump. Crumbing infrastructure, thuggish culture, ugly North American English (that accent makes me puke), racism bordering on fascism, third-world health system, and your workers – lazy, irrsponsible and downright sloppy in every single aspect, and yeah, your American-wannabe inferiority complex…. what a joke!
I agree with QQ. I don’t see the point this article either. If white kids are going to UWO,McGill or Queen’s would you say there are too many Caucasians in these schools?
This article is definitely alienating Asians, as if they got into this school just because they were Asian. Everyone who applies for university gets evaluated on the same standard. I’m sorry if you weren’t good enough to get in to university.
I agree with @QQ. I don’t see the point this article either. If white kids are going to UWO,McGill or Queen’s would you say there are too many Caucasians in these schools?
This article singles out Asians, as if they got into this school just because they were Asian. Everyone who applies for university gets evaluated on the same standard. I’m sorry if you weren’t good enough to get into university.
Easy there Chesterfield…keep it classy. Worst thing you’d want to do is come off as repulsive, ignorant and misinformed as the person you’re trying to respond to, or the person who wrote the article.
I was talking with a co-worker and she brought up a valid point. Do white people think that they are self-entitled and deserve the spots at U of T? Everyone competes. Fair and square before the admissions committee.
I Heard in US. some schools limited enrolment from certain group of people. Looks like canada school is not doing it. lol
While I am not of asian descent (I am white). I am offended by the article as well as some of the comments made on here as well. While many of you may be quick to make generalizations such as “whites don’t like asians”, it counters your point that “white” journalists should not be making generalizations of “Asians” I am a Canadian born and raised. I have friends of all walks of life, including asian (my best friend). He (being asian) would never stoop down to a level and make general comments about “whites”. Atleast not in a public forum where it would be made public. He is a true Canadian himself as well.
If you don’t like this country then go. As a Canadian, and i’m sure the majority of my non-white fellow Canadian friends would say. We wouldn’t give up living in this country for anything. If you think you’re country is so much better, then I just as any Canadian would say. You can leave, because there are millions of people around the world who would give anything to live in a Country as free, and as democratic as ours.
For all of you, who are of “Asian descent” or “east Asian”, do not point at “whites” and paint us all in the same light. Ignorant people come in all shapes and sizes,and all different skin tones.
I have to agree with Chesterfield. Canada has historically and openly been anti-Asian ie MacKenzie King, head-tax, miscegenation laws etc.
I am tired of in recent days of Asians (especially China) being vilified for everything.
Why does this happen and why does this continue to happen? This wouldn’t happen with the Jewish or black community.
It’s time Asians put a stop to this. It’s not enough to be successful and take the high road and write people off as ignorant. Everyone needs to do their part and speak out about this.
@Brandon Orr
I wish I could just leave this country now. Yes, there is a whole bunch of people from third world countries who want to come here, but I am not one of them. My home country is richer and better than Canada, and I am a fool to have come here to be treated like shit under your feet. Racism against Asians is part of the DNA of white Canadians and Americans. Whatever the mix of people, once you throw in the whites, racism will automatically emerge. I heard about this from an ethnic Indian from the Caribbean.
Let us get this straight, the cards are stacked against non Asian students now and in the future if we do not correct the ways we have been raising our children. There is no doubt as incorrect politically it is that groups stick with each other, help each other, give advantage to one another and strive to dominate it is the way of the world. Altruism has been the Wests’ downfall, fifth column groups as well that put individual economic success before the group. These groups can be found in the banking, real estate, education and development industries. Non Asian students need to act in their interests and learn to group together as well be they European, Hispanic, Black and so on. This is the future, get used to it match your adversaries with their own strategy it is the only way.
November 11, 2010 at 9:20 am | by Jack
I want to know what Jack is talking about. I’m of Chinese descent, born and raised in Canada. Was there a meeting I missed regarding collusion against all of Canada?
Do you understand what you are saying? Where does this fear and hatred come from. Suggesting every group band against Asians. This is hate mongering. Can you understand why some Asians have a hard time trusting other groups when they are openly attacked like this?
Yes, Asians are educated and some own some nice things, but do you really think they control banking, real estate etc? Take a closer look at the ethnic make up in the upper levels and you’ll find Asians are the minority in positions of power. Why not explain to me why that is?
I don’t even want to know how you’ll be “correcting” your children. Why do you have such a problem with Asian Canadians? Do you have a problem with black presidents as well?
parents wanting their children to go to university is not a bad thing. it’s ridiculous that it’s painted to be this way.
this is a very poignant response to this article. a MUST READ:
http://theashcan.com/2010/11/11/too-white-the-macleans-magazine-archives/
Since when did working hard and achieving one’s goals in life become such a crime?
This article has an extremely malicious intent. All the want is to change the perception of the Asian (coded word: Chinese) to the worse so that the public will support restricting the number of Asians in Canadian universities.
@Chesterfield
with all due respect,the crumbling infrastructure may be because WE HAVE SNOW during the winter. Just a thought there bud. And your country is richer than Canada? OK, how does this at all pertain to the argument at hand, and how doe sit have anything to do with the article above these comments?
but no in all honesty, if you’re old country was so much better then why did you leave? I believe in your previous post you stated you were from Hong-Kong right? Can you refresh my memory, what type of government is there in China? It’s Communist. Hey if you want to go and be “free” from racism in China go ahead buddy. Just don’t complain to them over there that you don’t like it, because although we may apparently have a shitty country over here, and everything just sucks. It’s your opinion, and you’re entitled to it (well at least in this country you are).
@ Canadian
I believe Jack is referring to another ethnnic group when he is talking about banking,as well there are other notable ethnic groups that seem to overwhelmingly control the construction industry.
Please, if you’re going to take everything that people say, and turn it into an attack (on your particular ethnicity) just stop arguing, because it just demonstrates how poorly you are interpreting a valid argument/ point.
He makes a valid point that most people like to be around people that are most similar to them, whether it be people who like the same sport as you, like the same music as you, speak the same language as you, or share the same culture as you.
Now this is not to say that all people of east-asian descent don’t mingle with non- easy-asian people. I remember when I was in high school there was a large population of South Koreans who would not talk or interact with any other ethnicity. This was due to them not being comfortable speaking to me or other people that were not like them, because they were not very proficient in English. Now that I am in University (Waterloo I might add), I am just used to the fact that a large portion of east-asians that come to study in Canada are not natively born here, so they are not very comfortable speaking to me. And I’m fine with that. I don’t go out of my way to speak to those people. Liek I’ve said before in my earler comment, I do have Asian friends (Korean, and Chinese) who were born here, and can speak perfectly well in English. In fact pretty much all the East-Asians I knew who were born in Canada, would frequently hang-out with non-asians and be just as excluded as myself from the newly landed Asians.
And your point about “Canada has historically and openly been anti-Asian ie MacKenzie King, head-tax, miscegenation laws etc.” Please, you’re comparing legislature from nearly a century ago. Bear in mind a century ago the United States had slavery, and apartheid still existed in South Africa. Please don’t spew your need for an excuse to get pissed off about.
Does the head tax still exist?
Are Japanese being locked up like they were in WWII?
Stating that a country has historically been racist against asians, especially when you don’t specify a certain ethnic group and just bracket asians under one group, even though it represents an entire continent, is just ignorant.
I encourage you to ask your parents or ancestors why they moved to Canada. You may find that maybe, just maybe this country isn’t quite as evil and horrible as you have it made out to be. I know my ancestors moved here as refugees to be free.
but then again I’m white so obviously, i’m a lazy, ignorant and rich slob, who hates anything and everything that isn’t like me.
@Brandon Orr
I ask myself the same question all the time. I have made a big mistake. All I can tell you is I did not choose to come to Canada on my own. It is my fault, and I admit it. It is an experience that will haunt me forever.
Hong Kong is not ruled directly by the Chinese government and China is no longer a communist country. I am not a fan of China or the Chinese goverment. I just do not like Canada. I have no problems concerning with people in Europe, but I just cannot stand Canadians and Americans, which are bird of a feather.
As for racism against Asians, you should do your homework. Citizens. Even Nazi Germany has never interned the Chinese during WWII even though China was part of the Allies. And course you rounded up the Japanese as quickly as you could. I personally know quite a few of elderly Chinese doctors who studied and worked as doctors and surgeons in Germany during WWII, and they were all married to German women. Do not forget that Asians were not allowed to study law or medicine in Canada before WWII and even those who studied these subjects elsewhere were not allowed to practise these professions here. Of course, marrying whites were not possible and the Japanese were interned and the Chinese were prohibited from entering this country.
Your soldiers were ordered by the British to fight Nazi Germany who committed the crime of Holocaust, while you yourself were imprisoning your own citizens in concentration camps back home due to race. How ironic.
Your country has a dismal racist record against Asians. You can trumpet all you want about the absence of slavery and the Underground railway to feed your American complex or whatever you want to call it, but the reality was slavery did not exist here only because British Empire banned it. See what happened to the free blacks once they had arrived in Canada – have you ever been to North Preston outside Halifax?
@Chesterfield
I am familiar with africville and the rest of canadian history, i’m not denying it. I’m just saying that it is not put into this context well. But alas, we agree to disagree.
@Chesterfield
I’m sorry you had those experiences, but could you refrain from belittling Canada and Canadians out of frustration? I am unable to relate to your whole “white Canadians do not like Asians” sentiment. Perhaps your frustration is a reflection of some sort of insecurity or social issues you need to deal with. As an Asian-Canadian myself, not once did I suffer from the sort of racism you seem to be dealing with and I was raised in a predominantly “white” neighbourhood. On the other hand, I was often called white-washed or considered not-asian by other asians, despite the fact that I ate rice during lunch in my elementary school days. Apparently, my white friends did not care about me eating rice. But other asians kept telling me to stop eating rice because it was an asian thing, and despite being physically asian, apparently I’m not. You seem to be too caught up with a racial-identity-crisis stigma.
The solution to your problem, it is definitely time to go back to Asia, if it would solve your comfort problem.
@MV
All I posted are facts and my real life experience in Canada. Not one is made up. What is wrong with that? How am I belittling anybody when I am talking about facts and how I feel? If they feel that universities are too Asian and publish it in a magazine, can’t I express how I feel being discriminated against severely in this country due to my ethnic origin and the colour of my skin? I thought that we still have the freedom of speech in Canada, unlike China?
About eating rice and Chinese food, I have been shouted on the bus by white people in Vancouver because I carried a shopping bag with Chinese characters on it. I have seen people being scolded at on the bus in Vancouver for speaking Cantonese because that passenger said that “it gave her headaches listening to a language that she did not understand”. I once attended a job interview in Vancouver and the interviewer had the gall to ask me why I did not try to find a job in a Chinese company instead because there were so many Chinese-run companies in Vancouver.
At work, complaints have been directed against me because I heated up some stir-fried noodles in the microwave which “gave out fishy smell”. Another colleague of mine heated up some other kind of Asian food and suffered from the same fate. There was an unwritten rule in that company where I work that one should not bring Chinese food for lunch.
You profess to be a free country and yet I cannot eat certain kind of food at work and will not want to be caught dead carrying a bag with Chinese characters on the bus, let alone reading a foreign language newspaper or a book (quelle horreur!)
As for Hong Kong being better in Canada, you can check the various statistical indicators published by international organizations and see for yourself.
I regret having come here and wasted 20 years of my youth in this hell. It is all my fault, and now I am old and cannot start all over again back home in Hong Kong. I feel extremely uncomfortable living in this country due to racism and I dread thinking that I will have to live here for the rest of my life.
Count some of the racist incidents in this country in the past few years:
Asian anglers being targeted in Georgina;
Ex policeman wearing KKK costume in a Canadian Legion-organized Halloween Party and won a first prize for costume;
Mixed-race couple being harassed in Nova Scotia; and
Maclean’s magazine complaining that there are too many Asians at universities.
Did I make up these to belittle Canada?
@Brandon Orr
“While I am not of asian descent (I am white). I am offended by the article as well as some of the comments made on here as well.”
“For all of you, who are of “Asian descent” or “east Asian”, do not point at “whites” and paint us all in the same light. Ignorant people come in all shapes and sizes,and all different skin tones.”
After reading your comments, I would have to disagree with your comment. From my understanding of your comments, you seem more incensed that with the thought that Asians might perceive ‘white people’ negatively than you are at the racial overtones of this article. Somewhat ironically, you end up making me think that you are a great example of a white person who thinks that he isn’t racist, but in fact, is racist.
I understand they you have been engaging in debate with Chesterfield who seems like a bit of a nutcase but barring that, how would you feel if the article read questioned whether ‘U of T is ‘too white”? Or read the comments from explicit racists like sarah and jack?
The gist of some of these arguments are as follows:
1. The U of T is too focused on academics. — well, it is a university and good universities are focused on academics.
2. Asian’s don’t have a social life because they don’t like tto go out and drink/sleep around/casual date as per one poster — roll back 50 years and drinking/sleeping around was not socially acceptable with ‘white people’ either. In fact, I’m proud that us Asian females aren’t slutty. Imagine that. Also, who made ‘white’ people socialization style the only way to socialize?
3. Asians are sticking to their own social groups and not interacting with other people. — Or, it could be interpreted that white people are sticking to THEIR own social groups. Heck, everybody sticks to their own groups.
4. Asians are ‘sticking together and helping each other to dominate’ — what???!!! This is news to me. This one is CLEARLY fear-mongering because I have yet to ‘receive help’ and ‘collude’ in this effort to dominate. The last time I received job hunting help was from a white friend. The last time I gave a reference was for a white friend. Bizarre that.
But I give it to you – you are actually the one that scares me the most. Because you attempt to present yourself as moderate what with your asian friends that you brag about. But if you were actually friends with these people and not racist, you would be a little more incensed by how this article attempts to fear-monger. No, you are the reason why this attitude becomes acceptible.
At least Jack and Sarah are straight up racist. You just don’t have the balls.
Wow. The Maclean’s article successfully offends both whites and Asians. White students only like to drink and party while Asian students only like to study. As someone who is half-Irish and half-Chinese, I guess I need to start taking shots of tequila during every homework assignment.
@ Discourage Canadian
Most Canadians have that attitude. “Yeah, but I have Asian/black/Muslim/Native friends”. Same in the US, they always claim that “but I have black friends”.
I have been very traumatized by my experience in Canada and this article just made me angry because it was like salt on my wound. I admit that I am a fool to have moved here and continue to live here. It is my fault, not Canada, because this country has always been racist towards Asians. I should have known better.
@discourage canadian
re-read my post.
1. if the article said u of t was too white, to be honest, i really wouldn’t care, and neither would the majority of white people I know.
2. You’re plain ignorant, I never commented on asian-social life, stop arguing about this with me.
3. I never said all asians stayed together, I specifically pointed this out.
4. once again, re-read my post and you will see I never said that every asian helps out other asians.
not once did i say that “asians” were taking over and colluding to take over an industry.
I am rather offended that you believe i’m racist, for commenting on this. You don’t even know me, you don’t know anything about my life, yet you feel so importat and so righteous as-to have the gaul to say that I am racist. Not once did I discriminate against you or any other asian on here based on their culture, language, religion, or culture.
Don’t try and fluster me with these ill-informed personal attacks, because to be honest they have no grounds to stand on.
I went to UBC in the 1980s when it was (maybe still is?) referred to as “University of a Billion Ch!nks”. I am 3rd generation Canadian of Chinese descent raised in Toronto and experienced blatant racism for the first time (but not last) in Vancouver.
Interestingly, at school the “Asian” students couldn’t relate to me as I was too Canadian.
Where are you from?
Toronto.
No, I mean where are you REALLY from?
Sigh.
@ Neville
I used to live in Vancouver, too, when I first came to Canada from Hong Kong. The racism there was so bad that it was unbearable. Almost all my experience of racism, and the most serious ones, were all in Vancouver. To me Vancouver is as bad for Asians as the American Deep South is for the African-Americans.
I have since lived in all regions in Canada, and the most accepting places I find were Quebec and the Atlantic region. Francophones are very, very accepting to Asians. An intereting observation: Asian male and white female couples are very rare in North America but when you see one, the female partner is almost invariably francophone.
I am still haunted by the harrowing experience I had in Vancouver, and thank God I have left that horrible city.
@ Neville
When I was in Vancouver, I heard that another nickname for UBC was “University Bombay and China”.
I once received an e-mail at work from an office in UBC. The person who sent the e-mail changed the school title on the cover page to “The University of Billions of Chinese”. It was an official e-mail sent to my boss of the time who was of Irish descent. That was the first time that I have heard of that nickname. How despicable. This will never happen in Britain or HK.
I think Chesterfield has had a bad experience in Canada, and that’s unfortunate. I’m Chinese, born and raised in a very traditional family who immigrated to Canada just about the time I was born. Growing up in Toronto, I never experienced racism beyond your typical immature playground humor which is directed at other races as well. Otherwise, I’ve never been discriminated for jobs (I’m working in healthcare), never been spoken to inappropriately in a public place and have never felt uncomfortable in the city at all. I think that Toronto happens to be more multicultural than Vancouver, and yes I’m sure Vancouver has a larger Asian population…and thus, more understanding of cultural differences. I think Vancouver has more of an issue with racism and discrimination because of the larger Asian presence. I hardly believe that the rest of Canada shares the same sentiment as non-Asian Vancouverites.
Yes…as even an Chinese-Canadian, I am offended by the article. There is no such thing as “Too Asian”. Universities certainly don’t give favouritism to Asians during the admission process. School teachers don’t take it easier on Asian students and give them higher marks than their non-Asian peers. There is no unfair practice going on in the outside world that leads to these universities being so-called “too Asian”. The best and brightest, academically get admitted…regardless of race. If someone chooses to go elsewhere…that’s their decision…based on their own personal preferences. But if a bunch of like-minded individuals choose to go to U of T, Waterloo or UBC and have the marks to get there and want to do well academically…what’s wrong with that?
And Chesterfiled, lets be clear…it’s not “us versus them”. Don’t turn this into one race is better than the other…or one country is better than the other. Your experience is not shared by other Asians living in Canada…not by a long-shot.
Asian……well let’s see, 2.4 billion Chinese in mainland China alone, billions more around the world….give it a few decades and everybody everywhere will be a minority next to the Chinese!
This is NOT just an educational issue in North America….it’s an ethnicity emigrating throughout the world and taxing too many countries that should be taking care of those that have actually contributed to the country!
I do enjoy the racist and bigoted comments by the majority of asians posting here though, showing some true colors JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE!
@ Brandon Orr
Actually, YOU need to re-read my post.
At no point did I accuse you of saying that asians collude and stick together or of talking about how asians socialize together.
I merely said that these arguments comprise the gist of many of the comments on the board.
What I did specifically accuse you of is that you claim to not be racist but seem more upset about white people being accused of being racist, than of the racist content in the article itself.
So to put it another way, you’re more concerned with protecting the ‘white man’s’ image than being outraged that the content was highly discriminatory towards Asians. Furthermore, you spend an awful lot of time arguing with Chesterfield over how people are not racist and that if he hates Canada so much, he should move back INSTEAD OF arguing with blatantly racist people like sarah and jack. I mean, if you’re going to pick somebody to argue with, why pick it with the guy who has just been insulted and is lashing out instead of the people who are actively doing the insulting?
Get it???!!!
In effect, you are saying ‘If you don’t like the way you’re treated here, go home!’ which in turn condones the behaviour and attitudes of jack and sarah. That’s my issue with your posts.
@ Joseph
I am happy to hear that you and other Asian people have not experienced what I did. That is good news, really.
I am posting my experience here because this racist article has brought out all the bad experiences that I have had throughout all these years in Canada. Most of my friends from Hong Kong have left for Hong Kong or other places after a brief stint here due to racism in 1990s. Contrary to the popular belief, many of them left within a few months or a year after landing without having qualified for citizenship because they just could not stand the intense discrimination. I was, according to the them, the “superman” who managed to stay on.
I have discussed this issue with many other immigrants from other developed countries like Hong Kong, and our rates of return migration are very high because our reason of being here is not economic. Interestingly, I read a survey published by Statistics Canada and they said that the highest return migration rates were found among immigrants from Hong Kong and the US, where up to 60% left Canada within 10 years. This fits in with what I hear.
I am kind of stuck here because I am married to a white Canadian. Therefore, I have no choice, at least for now.
Well, if you are tired of hearing racist comments everyday ‘chesterfield’, how about some reverse racism?
Our second year stats course was taught by an asian prof with three quarters of the class asian. Poor old white me received the highest mark on the final. That so freaked the prof out that he insisted on meeting me and having me “Informally” review the exam to confirm my knowledge of the test. Do you want to know what I’m tired of hearing everyday Chesterfield? That I have to apologize for being white because I’m screwing up our little multiculturalism lovefest by my very existence.
@ Dave McPhee
Seriously, I feel sorry about what happened to you. Even though the professor were not racist, the whole incident had very bad optics. I am quite convinced that the professor somehow thought that a white person could not have possibly attained such a high mark and therefore wanted to interview you.
Experiences like yours and mine have actually made me realize that human beings of different races have an inherent tendency to fight rather than getting along. While jobs and capital can be globalized, humans/labour force cannot. To encourage emigration/Immigration is not a very poor population policy, and I have definitely fallen victim to it, too. It is just so sad.
I am another HK immigrant from before 1997. I support Chesterfield 110%. I want to know how he knows so much about Canada especially on Black communities in Canada.
I want to invite Chesterfield to my friend’s blog here:
http://www.chineseinvancouver.ca
It’s absolutely unacceptable for a Canadian or any type of (once) well respected magazine to publish such crap. What is the real meaning of “Too Asian” anyways? This is a very subjective and broad subject – how can you characterize one race?
If you were to replace “Asian” with another race, gender, sexual preference, such as “Black”, “Female”, or “Homosexual”, there would be a BIG uproar. All in all this is obviously a very stereotypical view of Asians as well as a very one sided article. Shame on you MaCleans – SHAME ON YOU!
@ Dedede
Thanks for the link to your friend’s blog. His/her blog is just amazing! Although I no longer live in Vancouver, I will definitely follow this blog from now on.
I am not a regular reader of Maclean’s but I looked up this week’s issue for the university ranking chart, and then I came across this article. It has opened up an emotional floodgate in me and I felt so bad that I cried. Looking back at my life in the past 20 years, all I felt was regret and sadness. I wish I had never immigrated to Canada, and you know the reason why……
You asked me why I knew so much about Canada. I was once seen as one of those very “assimilated” immigrants with a very “mainstream” outlook (what a joke!), if you know what I mean. I have lived, studied and worked in all regions of Canada and have even lived in a totally francophone region for a while in order to master French.
As for my knowledge about the Black community, I have lived in Nova Scotia for 2 years and visited many black communities including some which were basically slums like North Preston outside Halifax. The living conditions of those slums are akin to the squatter areas in Hong Kong when we grew up. Those areas no longer exist in Hong Kong now but they still exist in Canada. These Black people are not new immigrants: most of them followed the United Empire Loyalists to Nova Scotia after the American Revolution and a smaller group of them came to Nova Scotia from the British West Indies in the 19th century. Therefore, they are a bit different from those in, say, Toronto, who are more recent arrivals from Caribbean countries like Jamaica.
I am actually married to a white anglophone Canadian, and therefore have also learned a lot about Canada from my spouse’s family. The worst part is that my married life allows me to compare how people treat us differently in every day situation down to the most minute details, but that is another story.
The more I have learned about Canada, and the longer I live in this country, the more I realize that I am a complete misfit, an outsider who is merely tolerated at best. I have no choice now – I am married to a local person, and have elderly parents to take care of. I am totally stuck. My spouse also knows about how I feel and sympathizes with my struggle with racism.
My friends back home in Hong Kong who have never emigrated or went back after their brief stint overseas in the run up to 1997 are not like me – they are curious about other countries, travel widely and eager to learn and experience other cultures, just like average HKers. And me – I am tired, bitter and traumatized. I spent a good portion of my youth struggling to be someone that I was not, living a total lie desperately begging for acceptance, and of course, working very hard in order to make a living, and in the end still being branded and treated as an outcast, as evidenced by this article in Maclean’s.
If politicians, business interests and the media hadn’t been so concerned about Toronto’s image of multicultural bliss, ordinary residents could have been voicing their criticisms and frustrations openly, and maybe even resolving some problems. They weren’t the ones who invited clashing cultures to come here, but they’re the ones on the bus listening to a hard-on-the-ears language they can’t understand and witnessing medieval garments on the women at the mall.
Well said VQ –
What were the individuals at Macleans thinking when they published this rubbish. How can they attack one race. The article was very one sided and was written in poor taste. Toronto is a multi cultural city, so deal with it. If U of T is “too Asian” for you “Alexandra”, than go somewhere else, where you will “fit in”. So sad that racism still exists…
I never hear about Western or Brock or any other universities being “Too WHITE”!?! Is being caucasian okay, but any other race is not? Despicable.
>>>
You asked me why I knew so much about Canada. I was once seen as one of those very “assimilated” immigrants with a very “mainstream” outlook (what a joke!), if you know what I mean. I have lived, studied and worked in all regions of Canada and have even lived in a totally francophone region for a while in order to master French.
I am actually married to a white anglophone Canadian, and therefore have also learned a lot about Canada from my spouse’s family. The worst part is that my married life allows me to compare how people treat us differently in every day situation down to the most minute details, but that is another story.
The more I have learned about Canada, and the longer I live in this country, the more I realize that I am a complete misfit, an outsider who is merely tolerated at best. I have no choice now – I am married to a local person, and have elderly parents to take care of. I am totally stuck. My spouse also knows about how I feel and sympathizes with my struggle with racism.
>>>
Could you submit an article to my friend’s blog? We want to hear your experience. You can find the contact information over there. Thanks.
I looked at the blog but apparently the owner is closing it down due to health reasons?
Hey guys I read that article, this is a my view on the whole situation: http://blindlightbulb.tumblr.com/post/1556492535/macleans
When I went to university I found that I had to work for a living while the chinese students came from privileged families and only had to study. While I had to earn my rent, they were in the library, while I had to work, they were exchanging notes. The chinese aren’t any smarter than Canadian born, they just had more time to study. One chinese student only took a minimum number of courses so that he could get better marks. Don’t tell me that Canadian born students who have to work for a living can compete with persons from wealthy families. I paid my own way, including rent, food, clothing. they only had to study.
I looked at the blog but apparently the owner is closing it down due to health reasons? The owner is a news editor working for Mingpao Vancouver. I think you should still e-mail her. We can work something out, hopefully.
When I went to university I found that I had to work for a living while the chinese students came from privileged families and only had to study.
cv, there are richie rich white students at Harvard, Yale, Stanford, too. They don’t work and went to expensive prep schools. Where do they get their money? Go ask your white parents why they aren’t rich.
A lot of people voice varying degrees of opinions. This is well understood since it is a democracy.
The reality is that UofT has become very much asian (removing etnicity aside) since I am asian myself. Now, don’t get me started if you tell me I am racist. I would like to see a balanced university. In my class, the caucasians are in the minority. Now, don’t tell me caucasians are stupid. They simply move elsewhere. McClean is correct. We simply do not want to hear ans see the naked truth. Now, don’t get me started by saying I work for McClean.
rennie sui,
Why White people have to the majority? Why can’t they become the minority? What is wrong with that?
If you prefer a white majority society/campus, please tell people that BEFORE they arrive Canada.
More Chinese students wanted in Canada
http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2010/09/15/con-china-students.html
Asian kids dominating Campus, libraries, positively, I believe Its a good sign for other nations/parents, its the time to catch up now, and do your the hardest. otherwise, you will soon become minority. Maclean – don’t bullshit around and fool our kids. campus is not for socializing network. knowledge is the key and only power to make our life better.
@cv
If you read the article, the white students are not complaining that they do not have time to study due to work. I also needed to work when I studied and therefore I know where you are coming from. In this article, the white students complained that the Asian students did not like to PARTY and therefore white students avoided the U of T so that they would not have to work that hard to get better grades.
@rennie sui
The crucial argument of this article is that when ethnic Asian students become the majority in a faculty or a university, it is seen as a problem because these students are seen as working too hard. However, why would it not be a problem if, say, white students form the majority of a faculty?
So what if it is too Asian? I don’t see the problem at all.
If the college is too white it is not a problem but if it is too Asian it is a problem?
If the writer of the article was smart enough he or she would of recognized that Asians are the world’s largest race, so it would be natural that Asian students will be the majority.
And so what if U of T is a killjoy school. If you want to have fun instead of being intelligent then go to a party school. School is a place to study in the first place and at least one school in the area should be a killjoy school. Other wise Canada would not be able to compete with other countries.
Just because you have a different perspective in life doesn’t mean you can offend other people from different race, background, or gender.
Macleans is just promoting bullying.
Let’s get real for a minute. Racism exists whether people want to admit it or not. Coming from an Asian dominated university, I can tell you first hand that Asians don’t mingle in Canadian culture, a trend which many Canadians and/or white people resent.
Why is everyone so entitled these days? I don’t care if I’m politically correct. The truth is that noone wants to go to U of T not because they will have to study, but rather because they will have no fun since it’s full of Asians. Asian people are not smarter, they work harder.If your tender feelings have been hurt by the words “too asian” get over it. Whether I say it to your face, laugh at you behind your back or have a chuckle with friends as you walk by, it’s not going to stop unless you learn to mingle in the country which you are residing.
And another thing, effing watch where you are going! Is it so hard to look up and have some social awareness?
@Bee
You say white students resent us Asians because we don’t mingle in Canadian culture? What is Canadian culture?
Do you white people mingle with blacks and the aboriginals in Canada? I want to SEE it.
And then you have the audacity to talk about social awareness?What is that exactly? You mean like white privilege and white supremacy? I thought they abolished slavery a lot time ago.
Although I agree with Bee on one point, racism does exist whether people want to admit it or not.
@Dedede
I mean social awareness, not as in white supremacy lol, as in when you are walking around on the streets of Toronto, literally look where you are going and don’t bump into people.
I have black friends, asian friends. native friends, that’s not the point. The point is U of T is predominantly Asian bc Asians work harder. Sure they have earned their spots there, but that doesn’t negate the fact that White people prefer not to go there.
If you don’t think Canada has a culture, then I can assure you, you haven’t taken the time to experience it because you are dead wrong on that point.
@Bee
If U of T is predominantly Asians, how come you white people don’t integrate into this Asian culture?
Why do you have to maintain White supremacy?
Spread the word.
Youth Coalition Against Maclean’s “Too Asian”
Nov. 17th 2010 6pm
215 Spadina Ave, Suite 120 – Centre for Social Innovation [Spadina Ave/Sullivan St]
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=167502949937195
I’m 24, white and without a univeristy education and even I know these two girls are twits/ignorant. If anything, you would WANT to go to school that’s “Too Asian” in hopes that their patience and studying skills/ambition rub off onto you. Because let’s be honest, a lot of N.American’s are LAZY and just want to play, and that’s not the way the world works. Quite frankly, I think the Asian culture when it comes to work and play is the right way-just read “Outliers”.
When I went to Havergal we still had grade 13. Too bad it no longer exists. Kids like “Alexandra” really need that final kick in the ass before heading out to the real world.
Alexandra, a second-year student who looks like a girl from an Aritzia billboard says, “All the white kids go to Queen’s, Western and McGill.”
…WOW. This is whats wrong with youth of 2010. You dont want to go to one of the best schools in the country because it’s not the fashion statement you want to make. This chick is a bigot, and a border line racist. Get with the times honey, one day daddy is going to axe your Visa and you’ll get perspective.
To quote the Havergal College website, one of their prime values is diversity.
“Girls at Havergal are encouraged to explore the diversity of the world around them, by learning about and actively participating in different cultures and communities and by celebrating the distinct cultural experiences of our students”.
Doesn’t sound like Alexandra got much if not any of that. But the school still got their $20k a year.
Well done Alexandra’s parents, well done.
Yes i so agree. I dont’ undersatnd why peope have to be so bitter just because theri daughters or sons don’t have marks that are high enough to compete with others and they blame it on their ethnicity. So what if 70% of their students are Asian? It’s like oh i’m sorry just cause you work hard and get the grades good enough to get into university YOU CAN’T cuz ur asian.
@ matt
your so funny and so true. i think its time for u to write up your own article!
So it’s okay for them to focus on the large asian community at UofT BUT what about the large white community at Universities like Western, Laurier etc? They may not have a ‘killjoy’ rep but they do have an equally stereotyped image and that is ‘party school’ ‘dumb blondes doing communications’. Isn’t that a problem too?
It’s only fair to consider the other side as well and that article was just way to narrow.
There is 2 billion Asians and only 36 million Canadians.
Of course Asia will find more 4.0 students.
McLeans should olso interview Western students in Asian universities to be fair to all.
So Maclean is saying that universities should offer and accept students that have a poorer average just because they need to even out the “race” factor?
That’s ridiculous.
I go to UofT and it’s a killjoy because the profs don’t care, you can study as hard as you can everyday and still pull out a 70 on every test, if the class does well they take a percentage off to “balance” the average to a 65-67, you need to be an expert at english to figure out the double, triple negatives used in test questions, every question is a TRICK.
Shame.
I think a lot of critics don’t understand private school culture. When I was applying for university 13 years ago, Asian students were far more likely to have U of T as their first choice school than other ethnicities (and when you go to private school, you’re pretty much Chinese, Indian or white). In other words, what the two white girls said at the beginning of the Macleans article is NOT a lie. There are MANY reasons for this, including the fact that boarders from Asia are likely foreign students already (or if they’re Canadian, have parents who’ve gone back to the old country) – going to U of T for them *IS* still going away as well as including the fact that Privileged Asian Girls tend not to feel uncomfortable about having money, while Privileged White Girls somehow want to pretend to be poor for four years. I have a long blog post on my site, Views of a Toronto Gal which details more:
http://viewsofatorontogal.blogspot.com/2010/11/whole-macleans-too-asian-thing.html
The Maclean’s article offers a unique insight into what is really happening in my school. It’s unjust to pass a blind eye to what is really happening. If students feel that they are unwanted or not deemed valuable enough at a particular university/college what’s the point in going there? Having gone to an all asian school it’s difficult to get anything. The standards become so skewed that teachers will pass over students they deem unfit. It’s not just rascim, which has distorted this issue completely, it includes the isolation and disregard students feel about their accomplishments at school. I agree with the students in the Macleans article its all about drive and perfect scores, nothing about what you’re truly interested in, to get the careers you love (besides the $$ you make).
I was one of 3 only black guy in my Engineering program at McMaster for all 4 years, and the only black guy in my engineering office of 35 people.
My Point, Schools dont care what your name or race is. you got high average, then you get accepted. Maybe the white kids should study more (especially for my people, blacks)
GOOD FOR YOU to all asians, and to universitys that dont care what you look like so long as you are SMART!!
I went to UofT for undergrad and graduate school. I am white but roughly 90% of every class I took in undergrad was composed of Asian students. They all speak their own language, stick to each other, have a distinct social subculture (one that me and other non-Asian kids couldn’t relate to, etc.) So yes, UofT is way too Asian. It really sucks that mature, less cut throat yet intelligent white kids end up going to other schools, have a great undergraduate experience and compete with us UofT kids for the few spots at UofT Law and Med school.
In spit of attempts to become a world leader in human rights, equality and race harmony, Canada remains a hilly Billie kind of a country. Over thirty years ago, some white kids complained that they could not get into the U of T’s medical school because they had to compete with too many Asians who spent most of their time studying. Today, our supposedly national magazine (well, there are no others) and the largest newspaper in the nation are literally repeating the same message. It is surprising someone just refuse to grow up and face realities of the world.
First it was the Muslims, then Quebec and now the Asians, who’s next? It is unfortunately that Maclean’s and the Toronto Star have, for the sake of circulation perhaps, just degraded themselves to no more than a couple of minority bashing tabloids.
This is ridiculous. Maybe these asians go to these universities because they have great reputations (and relatively cheaper than the states). U of T should be honoured that ALL THESE ASIANS were brave enough to start completely new lives in a totally new country, knowing nobody, and having to convert from being taught soley in Chinese growing up your entire life (maybe learning English as a language) and having to learn physics or economics in English. We who speak english have a hard enough time understanding this stuff. I go to McGill and there are a lot of asians.. but you know what? There are a lot of indian people, black people, french people.. ALL SORTS OF RACES AND ETHNICITIES. You know why they hang out in clusters? Because it’s hard for them to communicate in English to white people. If you moved to Germany with tones of white people among you, you’d obviously find a group of English speaking kids to chill with, not because of their race but because of the ease of communication.
Also, you want to know why they’re smarter than you? Because while you were in Junior High and High School messing around, not doing your homework and being extremely lazy, playing games and hanging out with your friend everyday, going on Facebook after class… texting during class, ETC, those kids were in the class room hours more than you were a day. Their summer vacations are close to non-existant, the teachers are strict,and the parents want the best for their kids so are extremely strict as well. Thus, there is competition. These kids work nonstop. Since elementary school, school is very challenging and difficult and you HAVE to work hard and efficiently to make it. They take these qualities that we do not possess and bring them overseas to University (U of T apparently), and you know what? While we are SHOCKED by the increased difficulty, lack of help, and piles of homework, they find it WAY easier than high school. How do I know? I’ve been fortunate enough to visit the Eastern land and seen it for myself.
The stereotype that asians are geeks and do nothing but study is so stupid. There are plenty of people like this who are white. I have a lot of asian friends and they’re the ones pestering me to go out when I’m not really down. You wouldn’t even be able to tell the difference… I mean.. you’d almost think they were ‘white’!
November 17, 2010
Dear Havergal Parents:
As you may be aware, Maclean’s published its Annual University Rankings issue last week. One of its feature articles, “Too Asian” has raised considerable debate and controversy in the media, among academics and with the general public. The writers of “Too Asian” started their article by quoting two unnamed students who are reportedly to have graduated from Havergal College.
As a community, we are truly disturbed and saddened by the article “Too Asian” and the negative message that it sends about the attitudes of young adults and the place of “Asian” Canadians in University and Canadian society as a whole. We are also concerned about the negative perception the writers—who do not know our school—have created in the minds of readers about Havergal students.
What this article has done is to highlight the issue that there is work to be done in order to help young people understand the complexities of the world and how stereotyping anyone is blinding oneself to seeing what is true, unique and valuable. This kind of learning is something that we take seriously at Havergal and it resides in our classrooms and beyond. The message of shared humanity is woven throughout everything we do, including our rich co-curricular life, engagement with the many community partnerships we have forged over time and lovingly maintain, and through our Global Experience Program.
In response to the Maclean’s article, Heather Johnstone, Head of Guidance (who was interviewed, but not quoted, for an article by Maclean’s that has turned into the “Too Asian” article) submitted this “Letter to the Editor” to Maclean’s (see below). Please feel free to share this letter with your family and friends so that they can gain a better understanding of the true story.
Warmest regards,
Dr. Susan R. Groesbeck
Principal
Havergal College
********************************************
Submitted and received by Maclean’s Magazine
November 12, 2010
Maclean’s Letters
Re: “Too Asian” by Stephanie Findlay and Nicholas Köhler on Wednesday, November 10, 2010
A Missed Opportunity for Maclean’s
As the Head of Guidance at Havergal College, I was interviewed by Stephanie Findlay for an article for the 20th Annual University Rankings issue. However, I was not quoted in the article “Too Asian,” nor was the data-driven information I provided to Ms. Findlay considered. The resulting article does not accurately reflect the image of Havergal graduates who I know to be dynamic, compassionate, tolerant and culturally-diverse young women.
Havergal families put extensive thought into sending their daughters to Havergal, many of them—regardless of cultural background—stretching their families’ finances in order to afford to come to the school. With its focus on the “whole girl” and developing students’ intellectual, creative, spiritual and physical potential—Havergal’s deeply-held values—parents believe in the long-term benefits a Havergal education will provide for their daughters. This belief is further justified by the over 8,000 alumnae who contribute in diverse and meaningful ways to societies around the world.
Havergal students are dedicated learners who put extensive thought into choosing their post-secondary destinations. When my colleagues and I counsel students on post-secondary education options, we discuss many issues including programs of study, location, size, facilities and campus life. A university with a solid academic reputation is important, however, the university must also be the right fit. One hundred percent of our graduates study at the university of their choice. The 114 graduates from the Class of 2010 are enrolled at 36 universities worldwide (regardless of their cultural background) and their areas of study vary greatly, from Liberal Arts, Fine Arts and Business to Science and Engineering.
As an independent school, Havergal College has been preparing young women to make a difference since 1894. We will continue to prepare our students with the knowledge and skills that will define them for their future and help them to make the best decisions for themselves—perhaps as “Alexandra” did in realizing that U of T was a better fit for her after all.
Unfortunately, many individuals, groups and highly-regarded institutions were inaccurately portrayed in “Too Asian,” which does little to address the issue of racism or stereotyping. This is an issue for schools, post-secondary institutions of all types, and society as a whole. This was a missed opportunity for Maclean’s to do something more than add fuel to the fire; it could have affected change.
Yours truly,
Heather Johnstone
Head of Guidance
Havergal College
“Too Asian” is a problem. “Too Indian” is a problem” “Too Black is a problem” “Too Jewish” is a problem.
Only “Too White” is acceptable. ”
White is the norm, White is the majority, White Rules” This is what Maclean is preaching, and if this is not racist I don’t know what is.
Zmurray, don’t you know Canada is a white man’s country? Of course, White is the norm, the majority, the white race and white culture is supreme!
That sounds like the German Nazis, don’t it? Except the poles, czechs, jews also have white skin back then.
McClean’s turned a non-issue into an issue. I mean, so what if there are too many Asian’s in universities these days? It must have been a slow news day for McClean’s. I can’t fathom why else they would decide to write such an article. Pathetic stuff.
Maclean’s* lol
Rogers Communications is Maclean’s parent company. If you’re offended by the Maclean’s article, cancel your Rogers cable, cell phone, and internet services and let them know that their company is “Too Racist” for you to give your money to.
Try to imagine coming to an entriely new country when you are 18 years old. You have been studying English very hard, just to be prepared to live in an English speaking country, but when you arrive, you find out that the study you have done before does not help you out when you try to interact with kids who’ve lived their whole lives here. You don’t get their jokes, you don’t know the TV shows they are talking about, and you don’t know the names of the famous hockey players of the country. What would you do? Either you can ask questions after questions until they give you the impatient look, or you can smile politely and keep your silence. I know a lot of Asian people choose to do the second one, and as a matter of fact, I think a lot “white” people, if faced with the similar situation, would not want to make an idiot out of themselves in an effort to integrate, either.
As a UBC student and a Chinese immigrant myself, my experiences tell me that communication is two way, “Asians” are not the only people who refuse to integrate. And I understand, too. Everyone wants to be with someone they are comfortable with. This article has some points, but I hate the fact that it blames “Asian” for not integrating with the rest of the community. Hey, for someone who was born and raised here and never experienced the hardship of trying to mingle into a strange culture, you have no right to say that we did not try. Generations later, when all Asians are here for 3 to 4 generations, I am sure integration won’t be a problem at all. When European first came to this land, did they integrate with the locals?
And “you took my son’s spot” comment is the most ridiculous comment I’ve ever seen. Canadian government wanted our parents, who were among the most talented and hard-working people back in our own countries, here to help develop Canadian econoomy. And now that they are here, their children are being criticized for being too hard-working? If you care so much about these “white” parents’ feelings being hurt because of our arrival, why not tell the government to accept some more unskilled poor people from Asia? You take all the skilled workers from Asian countries and don’t allow their children to get into the best universities here, how fair is that???!!
Now I know where Sara Palin been hiding, its not a rock ,
it Macleans white news room.
uhm markham also consists of UNIONVILLE which is all white. oh and by the way, markham is the #2 richest city in ontario, next to oakville. so sorry if getting paid due to our high levels of education bothers you.
Canada is as racist any an American state that we pretend we’re so much better than. This “article” is just another example.
Missing the point?!
So get this..I’m gonna POINT OUT the following: There are too many black people listening to rap music. These people are dumb, uneducated, and have violent tendencies! They just get in the way of hard-working, educated, and socially responsible white people trying to enjoy their rock and country. One such white person, “James”, who wishes his identity hidden, had this to say “You know..I was just driving on a nice sunday afternoon when these crazy black people pulled up next to me in their Esclade with their loud music going on about pu$$ies and crack..I couldn’t even enjoy my own music. And it’s just every where..I can’t even go a day without hearing the crap..and the way any of them can just dance to it out of no where is freaky.” Obviously these dumb black people ought to think of better ways to enjoy their music. Music isn’t just about being loud and R-rated.
I wouldn’t be racist because I’m only pointing out the fact that too many black people listen to rap. Right?
WRONG!
Report the facts..that’s fine..think about how you’re reporting it. The stereotypes weren’t needed for the article but of course you’d need something negative too justify “TOO Asian”
I’m offended, I’m Asian, I’m Canadian, and I’d say it’s crappy journalism even if it wasn’t aimed at Asians..shouldn’t you?
@ Chesterfield
Man, what an idiot you are! Not once do you offer WHY Canadians might be “racist” towards asians….maybe it’s because we feel inundated by Chinese people everywhere we go in Canada, look at public transit in Toronto where everybody is a minority to the Chinese!
Maybe it’s the utter and complete lack of manners and common courtesy that is inherent in all asians. I don’t go into asian areas of Toronto because I like to be respected and not shoved around like an object in the way of asians…………get a grip Chesterfield, being stupid AND ignorant is certainly no way to go through life!
The reason for the disproportionate presence of foreign students at UofT is partly cultural (i.e. work ethic) but also partly financial – UofT needs the extra money it charges foreign students to pay the generous salaries (relative to workload) of its aging, tenured faculty.
@ FreeLoader
On the contrary, I found Chesterfield’s posts to be quite thought-out and well-written but it just so happened he got stuck with the experience of experiencing harsh racism, which have may led to your post.
“Man, what an idiot you are! Not once do you offer WHY Canadians might be “racist” towards asians….maybe it’s because we feel inundated by Chinese people everywhere we go in Canada, look at public transit in Toronto where everybody is a minority to the Chinese!”
It’s funny how you say “Canadians”, as if you have to be “white” to be Canadian. Why do you feel so overwhelmed if you’re still taking up the majority of the Canadian population, according to the 2006 Census that was taken 4 years ago? Maybe you should stop being an xenophobic prick and maybe not assume that all “Chinese” people (Ahem, not every Asian person is of Chinese descent) are going to insult/ridicule you because of your skin colour. This is 2010, not the near yet distant past where racism was a lot more rampant.
“Maybe it’s the utter and complete lack of manners and common courtesy that is inherent in all asians. I don’t go into asian areas of Toronto because I like to be respected and not shoved around like an object in the way of asians”
All the Asian marketplaces I’ve been to have people that show enough courtesy to not push people purposely as a first response so they could get on with their day. At the most they would yell at you because you were blocking the main path, maybe push you if you were too stupid to comprehend, and you see this everywhere for marketplaces, not just Asian ones (ie. Europe). Besides, you would be surprised how many people push and shove in regular grocery stores.
Canadian culture does not promote multiculturalism, no culture promotes multiculturalism. That is nothing more than a governmental policy, it is not culturally based, or should I say Trudeau mandated? It’s like a human mind promoting multiple personalities, it doesn’t actually exist! As for the University of Toronto being too asian, I would have to say that their structuring of learning promotes minimal personality development, self expression, and creativity. These are all hallmarks of Canadian, American, and other western cultures today. What is ironic, the professors who refuse to change their teaching methodologies to suit this new form of processing/behavior are the same ones who informed our parents that they need to allow their children a far greater leeway for behavior & understanding, without the authoritarian methods in which their parents raised them, the same parenting methods that nearly all asian parents raise their children! So I’d have to chalk the under performance of Canadian born students up to yet another liberal extremist moment, ie: cultural reformation without rigorous scientific investigation. And F.Y.I Canadians of asian descent whose parents were also born in Canada have nearly equal achievement levels as their fellow white students, and even if their parents were raised elsewhere while they were both born and raised here still they do worse than asians raised elsewhere but who choose to study in Canada. Don’t believe me, open up your mental peepers and read some reliable research papers instead of vomiting your emotions all over the place like a Canadian whose become drunken and addicted to liberal mantra.
Fin.
How accepted do you think I would be if I moved to China….a hell of a lot less than any Chinese are here!!!!
If you choose to move here of your own free will (don’t give me this “escaping a regime, or hardship, or civil war crap” either), then you should know that Canada actually has some white poeple in it….what a revelation huh?
One of the BIGGEST problems with new immigrants is they don’t bother for 1 second to learn anything about this country, so when they move here they find out they hate it, and then go around bad-mouthing Canada…….if that’s how you feel just go away alright? Pack your bags and go back, I’m sure you’ll fit right in back in mainland China!!!
90% of product we make for U of T students are for asians. So ya, the numbers seem to show a majority of asians now. But why see this as bad? Take advantage of it.
When I went back to school years ago to add skills to my vocation, I knew I had to do well in school to keep the sponsorship. I also knew I was never really good at “school” back in the day. So, how did I address this problem? I befriended the only asian guy in my coarse, and decided to try and keep up with or outdo him. What did that get me? I graduated 2nd top of my coarse with honors, right behind the asian guy. LOL.
I’m not complaining. Wise people will see the positive in any situation, the rest, well, they’ll complain about it.
I don’t think the asians being in the univertsity means
they are taking over. The real problem could be they
speak Chinese of Cantanese with each other during the
hours of the day.
I work in a office where there are five asians.
Although our office has a mixed race.
They talk chinese all the time. Us other races
think it’s very rude. Because it is a english
enviorement. The asians speak loud. I the others
find it very annoying.
Thx Emmie Toronto
I am a U of T undergrad and Chinese born Canadian. I absolutely love the country! Many arguments such as race, upbringing, culture, values, skin-tone, riches of a country and stereotypes have been brought up.
I’d like to say, being born in Canada I’m a patriot, my heart melted when Crosby scored against the US and tears welled up in my eyes.
Like Emmie Berry said, its very annoying when Asians speak their respective languages in a English speaking environment such as a workplace. Its rude and ignorant. Don’t get me wrong I love being Chinese wouldn’t trade it for the world but these people need to realize we aren’t in China anymore, we need to adapt.
Asian upbringing is always focused on school. Being born here, my father being born in Newfoundland and my grandfather, that part of us has always been there.
U of T just happens to have standards that East Asians are able to meet. Mind you, Queens and McGill are no universities to Scoff at. If our white counterparts feel that is a better fit for their educational pursuit then so be it. U of T is an heavily Asian dominated (East and South Asian). Reasons?
Within the city meaning no residence fees and easier commutes rather than out-of-city universities. Prestige also fits in there.
Growing up here, I have not experienced much racism. I consider myself Canadian. I love our anthem, love our flag and love our people.
I do feel quite upset though that Alexandra would suggest other educational institutions based on the asian populace at U of T. We go clubbing, we have parties and get drunk (its called after finals aha).
The article itself is sad, I hope however people do not paint all Canadians (particularly white) in this light, its nonsense, I have plenty of white friends who would never think such. As Asians tend to cluster in their own ethnic groups, so do Whites for the same reason but coming together there is no problem working and having a good time together. There are more similarities among groups of similar ethnicity due to similar upbringings so to debate over the racism at hand is stupid, its not racism its just preference of choice.
My white friends went to Queens and Western to party and hang out with their friends and take part in the more white culture then apparent in Scarborough (dominated by Asians) which is fine, we still talk and meet up they just wanted to be with a population more similar to theirs. Mind you they were not rich but excelled in school.
People need to stop hating.
God Bless Canada.
It true in some way of the article. But not all true he should do more research and get more fact and think carefully before he type that information up. I am Canadian born Chinese. I never sacrifice of time and freedom. I still have time to be involve in school, life, and at home. You just need to know how to balance. Some Chinese like to study because they are nerd. Some like to be active. Some people study because of pressure at home. Some people want to study because they want a brighter future and success in life. Some just want to attend a certain college and university. Anyone can get into university unless they have some learning or mental disability. If you had time for entertainment then you had time for study and homework.
My daughter has worked her but off to get great grades to attend UoT only to have to drop a class because the prof could not speak english very well so decided to speak Chinese so most of the class, >90%, could understand and told the ones who could not to view another profs lecture on the web to get the info. I don’t know what to do. I pay good money for her to go there and she was afraid to tell me. Now I am stuck with it. Can anyone give me any advice on what I can do to report/correct this?
I am a student at UofT, and I know that everybody has a different experience because this school is so big but I’m just kind of tired of everybody assuming that UofT is a killjoy school. I definity DO NOT think that is the case, in fact I love my school. I am in my first year, and all my professors are great. They are very approachable and I know that they want us to do well. I can say the excat same thing about my TA’s they are beyond helpful, and they will meet with you if you need extra help. Also, there is in fact alot of parties at UofT, you just gotta look. And plus there is always lots of bars and clubs to go to:). Sorry bout the rant, but I’m just tired of always hearing bad things about UofT. Anybody else love UofT?
OKAY! this article is without a doubt crossing the line. It is extremly racist! However, as a U of T student I must admit. This place has a HUGE population of asian student. That is fine, if they take white students spots at the school fine, they earn it by their marks. BUT, when they get in, (and this is just a generalization- doesn’t aply to everyone!) they keep to themselves, they are rude to anyone who isn’t asian, they think they are superior. If whites treated them that way it would be a huge deal. Also, because of their culture they do not party or have any fun. Yes, university is a place to learn. BUT youre crazy if you think that partying should not be a party of it!
Bottom line- this article is offensive and not right, however… a lot of truth here.
I found the Maclean’s article offensive to white people most of all, actually!
The implied message that Caucasians are all party animals that do not care to study or work hard is absurd!
Personally, I don’t care if you’re a Caucasian, Asian or Martian student…as long as you shut up in class, don’t distract me, and don’t cheat/steal from other students!
What angers me most about UofT is that people do talk in class, distract others, and cheat/steal!
Mellow Yellow – what happened to your daughter is outrageous!
You should help your daughter send a letter/e-mail with a formal complaint to the Department offering the course in question….or better yet, take your complaint to a higher-up in the Faculty in which your daughter took the course (I’m guessing the Faculty of Arts and Science). Don’t let UofT get away with this!
I’ve had to launch complaints at UofT because I’ve similarly experienced unfair situations. I highly encourage you to help your daughter stand up for her rights!
Good luck to you.
maybe NBA is too African, how about that? Canada is a country where people’s efforts are rewarded.What we should do is to ban those Chinese private school to ensure everyone have a fair chance to go to college or university.
big fat titties in my face
I am a phd student at U of T. I also TA one of the introductory courses which is more mathematically based. I can tell you that the idea that Asian students are somehow “better performers” is a myth. Of our class, which is a majority Asian, many of these students do quite poorly and drop out. I believe the reason U of T is mostly Asian has nothing to do with performance but is, quite frankly, more about political influence and demographics.
Everything is true in this article.
I am sorry that is racist to you, but it is the truth. Aren’t there too many asians in uoft? of course there are.
Are most asians fun to hang around? no. They alienate themselves from the soon-to-become minority of the university.
I am sorry to wanting a great education and an environment where I feel comfortable to hang, explore other aspects of life other than studying. Guilty, I am human. The fact remains that Asians kill the university experience for most whites. And I am not even white saying this. So, to all universities, Go ahead be racist, be what ever you have to be to bring back good old fun times with white people, who happen to HAVE a sense of humor, and live life to their fullest. Not all whites drink all the day, that is ridiculous, they are dedicated as any other race is. They have provided me with great memories that I will cherish. And this is being ruined with Asians that have no life, so you deserve everything you get. Hey, don’t want to be treated differently? then don’t act differently. Try to blend, and consider other aspects of life.
As far as uoft is concerned. The university is shit. period. There is nothing else to add to this.
Study hard, party hard, and stay away from Asians or any fun killers of such.
[The fact remains that Asians kill the university experience for most whites.]
what do you mean by kill the university experience? a university is not the place to have fun. and yes you are a racist when you post that hatemongering dribble
I was a tutor at the St. George campus 2 decades ago. I remember one white young lady in my class (micro- or macro-economics I forgot frankly) asked me some very trivial question: What is a straight line in the X-Y plane. I guess she was from Second year but I still managed to explain step by step to her, making sure she understood. She thanked me a lot. No problem! But I have some big question why a Second Year undergraduate still could not master some basic maths we learned in Form 2 or 3 in Hong Kong or Singapore?
U of T is the place for anyone who strives for academic knowledge and success. It is not the place to have circus!
I just looove the sarcasm dripping from this toronto life article. Toronto Life isn’t worthy to untie the sandals of Macleans. More than the sarcasm it was the use of that sarcasm to misrepresent what the Maclean’s article was getting at that irked me.
Also racism works both ways: Im Korean and if you think that asians aren’t racist themselves you are as dumb as this Toronto Life writer. Multiculturalism is great when it’s ACTUALLY “multi” not ONE culture that is ‘foreign’ to the majority. When you have a large group of asian students there WILL be racism against the minority whatever that is, just like it is VICA VERSA (a large group of white students etc). THAT’S the real problem. Not that there are too many of one group but that there should be a good mixture of EVERY group in the university. And I don’t buy this BS about white students not being smart enough. The truth is there is a selective process that is going on. We liberals screwed up but we are too stupid and too arrogant (like my sarcastic friend the Toronto Life writer who is too scared to put in his/her name on the article) to admit it. You ever been to Japan as a Korean? No? Then shut up about whites being racist against asians. EVERY LARGE MAJORITY GROUP whatever it is will be racist against the other group so its best that there is no large majority of any one group.
As my jewish friend says: “oy vey”
As a white Canadian and current University of Toronto student I can personally tell you that there are way too many Asians at U of T and they usually are the worst students. I have a 4.0 average and I work very hard while the Asian students skip class, party and ask for my notes. I know a large group of Asian students that are failing or just passing. Poor Asian students they cannot catch up to my genius. So do not worry about White Canadians because if you work hard you will do well.
It’s great that so many Asian students actually want to get as much educational value as possible from their time in University, but one important skill it seems they may be missing out on is learning to navigate a world filled with diverse groups of people: the art of “networking” outside of people your own age, economic circumstances and racial group and “small-talk”. These groups are very insular at the university I attend.
Too many non-Canadians in universities IS a problem. Imagine not being able to have productive class discussions because too many of the students can’t speak good English. Imagine having to essentially be a TA for your ESL group-mates when you’re trying to put together a presentation because they can’t grasp the intricacies of the course material. IT”S A PAIN IN THE ASS.
I don’t understand why people get so up tight about this kind of stuff. UofT IS too Asian, thats why hardly any “white” kids want to go there, unless they have no other options. Racist? maybe. Truthful? Definitely. I go to Western and people still have an issue with the asian influx here. CDN universities market overseas to fee-paying students, as purely a business standpoint if nothing else.
Asian students DO perform better, another truth. But in very specific fields..
But at the end of the day, whats a life not worth living? CDN’s know where its at to live life to the fullest, make the best of their time at university, and want like minded people to enjoy that with, not the killjoys the drag their feet around Toronto. Its a fact of life, not something that people need to be ashamed of for thinking…
Additionally, London, Montreal, Vancouver even Kingston parties in a completely different way than Toronto clubs and bars, they are not remotely comparable.
The person who wrote this article MUST have gone to UofT and must never leave the city much …
wowwwww! i’m sure most of the “Chinese” students are Canadian’s. This is disgusting. Can’t believe how racist people are. Why would you go to a school based on the race of other people there? If that’s how you base your decision for post secondary school I would rather go to school with high achieving Asian’s that racist, rude, underachieving white kids.
” I believe the reason U of T is mostly Asian has nothing to do with performance but is, quite frankly, more about political influence and demographics” true. there are many kids who had top marks who could not get into u of t- some people with influence had lower marks and got in- it’s not always about performance, it’s not always about race either, but it’s almost always about influence and class.
” I believe the reason U of T is mostly Asian has nothing to do with performance but is, quite frankly, more about political influence and demographics” true. there are many kids who had top marks who could not get into u of t- some people with influence had lower marks and got in- it’s not always about performance, it’s not always about race either, but it’s almost always about influence and class.
I find it disheartening that these “white kids” don’t even want to try to compete with “the Asians.” It should be a bit of a dissapointment that these students chose their school based on racial profiles. U of T has a great reputation, the best in Canada. As a “white guy” I can say that I would never choose a different school than this one, I have had an amazing experience, and a great challenge learning under some of the best minds in the world. International students should make us strive further, and work harder (obviously not kill ourselves), but instead it seems that we are rolling over and isolating ourselves from one of the greatest institutions in our country. I’m glad i’m at U of T, beautiful buildings, great resources, amazing teachers and all around a world class school. Bring in the most qualified people, make everyone better.
Maybe that’s true at universities with low admission requirements. At the well-known ones like U of T and UBC, competency in English is required to be accepted at all. You’ll definitely hear lots of accented English from internationals, but certainly not broken to the point that you won’t be able to work with them. Also, even if they’re not comfortable speaking they’re likely to be fine with writing and reading – otherwise there’s no way they could score well on the exams which are written entirely in English.
Also, you’d be surprised at the number of non-white countries that enforce or encourage English in their schools. Singapore, India, and many parts of Africa enforce English at all levels of schooling. Malaysia and Hong Kong don’t strictly require it, but it’s encouraged enough that the vast majority of schools teach it. In many parts of Europe where English is not an official language, people still manage to speak it fluently and even have better grammar than North Americans. People from such countries make up a large portion of immigrants and international students in Canada.
TLDR – North America is not the only place where people speak English.
Asians do party, actually. Their parties are less alcohol/loud music and more trading cards and video games.
For those complaining about how Asians (Orientals) tend to be insular and not want to interact with the whites:
At least they keep their mouths shut and avoid breaching the peace. Those who are racist towards whites tend to be quiet and inconspicuous about it.
There’s a certain minority whom I won’t name, but I’m sure everyone will know who I’m referring to. They make no effort to disguise their HATRED of those who don’t follow their barbaric culture and homophobic misogynist views. If a member of their own group tries to be progressive and assimilate to Western values, he/she is immediately branded an infidel traitor and risks getting killed by this group. They openly speak out about how much they look down on the West while reaping tax dollars as welfare queens. They commit violent crimes even after Canada welcomes them as refugees with open arms. Worse still, political correctness prevents us from deporting them. Yes, I know there are decent people in this minority, but they would be considered traitors by other members of this minority.
The same minority is even worse in Europe (just go to certain parts of Sweden and Belgium to see the worst of it).
Whatever complaints people may have about Asians in universities is peanuts compared to what this minority does.
People should not focus too much on “competing” in university. So what if some guy of another race scored higher than you did? If you’ve done well, there’s no reason to be unhappy. Getting rank 1 every semester is meaningless if you don’t accumulate practical experience along with it. Not saying you should chill and be satisfied with barely passing – just set realistic goals for yourself and be happy if you achieved them.
Ha! Who ever gets the highest grades should be able to get to go to school. Why is it that employers can’t discriminate based on ethnicity, age, sex, etc. But when it comes to school, that it becomes okay to discriminate based on ethnicity? That simply is not right. Instead, transcripts should not include name, ethnicity and be 100% based on grade averages and extra-curricular achievement. Whoever has the best of both should be admitted.
I do go to one of the so-called “whiter schools”, think Western, Queens, Mcgill and I can tell you from first hand experiences what alcohol + parties does to young people, it creates an environment where every friday night or home-coming, turns into ambulances rushing to residences to pick up students that have passed out from alcohol poisoning.
Simply put it, if more students get into universities with good grades, then that is a good thing. It enriches the learning environment of the school. And whether these students are Asian, Black, White, Latino, Male, Female, Old, Young, is a non-issue.
So Yes, this article does have racist undertones, and I am disappointed in the Canadian government for not taking the necessary legal action against Mclean’s and the authors of this article for what they have wrote.
It would definitely be ambiguous to claim that the universities where the majority of them are whites would not be regarded as racist. Canada has had been a country that was firstly achieved during the colonization from the Western European. That’s for sure. Nonetheless, Canada often boast their superiority especially when it’s compared with America, asserting that they are a lot more generous towards multiculturalism. I do believe that people with same ethnicity mostly do feel more comfortable, which I believe inherently unavoidable both culturally and genetically. However, if that has had been the previous century, then I guess attaining the full equality for the races must be the next confronting issue. No matter of what people say, it is indeed veritable that White Supremacy and they thinking themselves as the only right owners of this country, which seems not very fair for sure during the time when the immigration being so opened. Some ppl mentioned that the personality types are different and thus avoiding asians to be natural. Well, I don’t mean to go against all of the people simply dividing them by prejudices, but it should be admitted that the white people are definitely arrogant for some senses. I see many and many of asians being over flattery for hanging out with other races while white people most often accept this only when they like it or sth. that obviously can’t be judged as pure equality.
I can somewhat sympathize. It really puts Canadian-born students at a disadvantage
when we have to compete with the high intake of immigrants fighting for
the same spots. It seems unfair to have someone who doesn’t even have
their citiczenship chosen over those who have lived here their entire lives. With that being said the Macleans artcile was offensive. Race should not be a facor!! Canadian-born can include Asians, Blacks, Hispanics etc.
Good ole Canada. Doing the right thing and not considering race. In the USA affirmative action outright lowers the bar for minorities, which is both insulting and discriminates against others.