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Toronto police officers can no longer accost you for no reason

Toronto police officers can no longer accost you for no reason

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(Image: William Mewes)

At a special meeting on Thursday, the Toronto Police Services Board approved a long-awaited new policy that forbids police officers from questioning civilians for no clear reason—which, yes, is something police officers were able to do. If you didn’t know that already, you’re statistically very likely to be a white person. That was the problem.

The practice, known as “carding,” allowed police officers to collect information from people who weren’t suspected of any specific involvement in crime. Toronto Police Service brass have defended carding as a vital part of community policing, but a 2012 Toronto Star investigation made it clear that people with dark skin were disproportionately likely to be stopped. Thursday’s police-board vote was the culmination of months of soul-searching and lawsuits at police headquarters.

Under the new rules, according to the Star, police won’t be able to card people unless investigating a specific occurrence. Police also have to give out “receipts” that explain the reasons for a stop. The board plans to review the changes in October, at which point the rules could be revised again.

Topics: crime Politics toronto police service tps

375 thoughts on “Toronto police officers can no longer accost you for no reason”

  2. Happened to me before, and I’m just an average looking 27 year old white middle-class male.

  3. I got pulled over because my buddy and I were pulling in and out of parking lots trying to buy smokes but the stores we pulled into were all closed again and again. Keep in mind I was obeying the rules of the road. When I got pulled over I was told “we wanted to know what you were up to.” And they wasted 40 minutes of our time going over my license and insurance. We were not suspects in anything yet they treated us like criminals.

    Also I’m white and was 29 so I don’t wanna hear any BS about how only black people get pulled over.

  4. I don’t understand how they were allowed to do this anyway. Section 8 & 9 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms states

    “Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.

    Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned.”

    It says right there right to be not to be arbitrarily detained and preceeding that it says it applies to EVERYONE.

  5. just because they stop and question you, it doesn’t mean they are searching you or detaining you. It didn’t violate either of those sections. They were allowed to stop you and ask you questions about where you are going and what you are doing and then if they felt there was necessary suspicion they could continue with a search. This just stops them from arbitrarily stopping people without any precedent to do so.

  7. “statistically very likely to be a white person”…. smh more like a wealthy white person …

  8. actually their not allowed to question any1 without reason or suspicion , they r here to protect our rights.. not strip us of them

  9. Driving in & out of the parking lots of closed stores is very suspect in any officers eyes. I got stopped nine times in one day like they were playing a joke. When you get stopped once a month then you can talk. When all you know is being assaulted, offended and discriminated by officers since the age of 13, is when you have something substantial to say. When you’ve been detained AND incarcerated wrongly with no compensation then you can talk. When your car gets impounded because the officer “thinks” you’re on charges and doesn’t look properly into it because “who care its just a nigger” [spoken from the officer] then you say something. Don’t be ignorant and treat the fact as factoid because of your disconnect on the topic since you’re a white male. It doesn’t mean that all of a sudden racial profiling doesn’t exist just because you’re white and you got stopped, how ignorant is that!? You don’t know what it’s like to be profiled, and with your biased outlook on the matter, you never will.

  10. so is that already in effect? i dont see that happening.. me telling the officer hes not allowed to ask for my name and what im doing then asking for a reciept.. im pretty sure id end up in cuffs for some stupid reason or the other lol

  11. this might help you fight charges they stick on you later on.. but we all know cops just do whatever the fuck they want.. i wish i can ask a cop to leave me alone and give me a fucking reciept lmao

  12. Ya i’v been carded many times.. I’m of African decent and on many occasions just walking across the street to the corner store.. however neither is a search or seizure..

  14. gotta be a Toronto thing because here in Brampton the police do this to everyone white as well as others

  15. Questioning us different than detainment n searching etc -_▪ so no love, it’s not right there

  16. No it’s not. Detainment is being put in the car, being arrested etc. You are not detained just because an officer is having a conversation/questioning you on the street.

  17. you probably have a criminal record if you got stopped 9 times in one day.. when cops are behind your car they usually run your plates.. try to get someone else that has a clean record to put your plates under

  19. By law you only have to give them your name and address. Technically while you were being carded and asked questions you are allowed to choose not to answer or even just leave and they have to allow it. Most people don’t know this however and just feel pressured when being questioned by the police.

  23. detain[ dih-teyn ]
    verb (used with object)
    1. to keep from proceeding; keep waiting; delay.
    2. to keep under restraint or in custody.
    3. to keep back or withhold, as from a person.

  25. Yeah technically your not detained when they questiom you but realistically you are. Let me explain something the law is twisted cause theres so many leaving room for error and conflicts. You have the right not to be detained or searched with no reason. You also have the right to remain silent and choose not to answer as well as the right to not self incriminate. So they can technically try to card you but your not detained, you could completely ignore them and continue walking or say your busy and gotta go cant talk. Now your suspicious and now they have reason to detain you and likely will. So realistically you were detained the minuite they carded you but technically they are just another citizen trying to talk to you, you are not detained and free to go

    The reason is also subjective ex. He displayed signs of suspiciousness and nervousness.

  26. Technically, if you’re walking down the street, you have NO obligation to identify yourself, unless you’re being detained or under arrest. And even then, you don’t have to show ID. The only time that has to happen, is if you’re under highway traffic act rules. IE, you’re driving.

  27. I’m white and get pulled over all the time, they always want to search my car. I just get my lawyer on the phone and ask if they want to speak with him. they normally back right off lol

  28. and for those that are going to say “I must be on charges for this to happen”. I haven’t been to trial, therefor i’m still innocent until they prove i’m guilty. so this should not be happening!

  29. Dude calm down. As a white, middle-aged, somewhat poor male, I think I speak for all those people who get harassed by the cops when I say that the situation you have to go through is deplorable and we’d like to change it so that it doesn’t happen to anyone! I recognize that it is worse for you and that frustrates me, and an overhaul of the police should address all our problems.

  31. It’s about a fucking time. I am black. look a lot like a stereotypical nerd and speak well. i cannot count on both fingers and toes how many times I have been stopped. For walking.

  32. they have no right to stop can question us unless we’re under investigation. Check your charter of rights.

  33. no dat’s not true u don’t have to have a criminal record to be harassed by d police.if u are a black man and u drive a good car dat can happen

  34. I don’t get the reason why people are upset about police officers stopping you to have a conversation with you. The reason why they do this, is because they just want to know where you’re going and make sure you aren’t doing nothing where a point a police officer have to arrest you. The people who complain about this are the people who have done something wrong in public places where a police officer have to arrest you… Other than that, the crime ratings in Toronto are going down, and who should you say thanks to ?, Toronto police…

  35. Oh piss right off, I’m white, and I’ve been accosted by the cops while looking clean cut and office worker worthy quite a few times before. You progressive idiots ASSume that every white person is raised with a silver spoon in their mouths, which in and of itself is racist…But that’s OK, racism ain’t that if you bash caucasians, because everybody knows we’re not officially a race among humans just like the rest of…humanity?

    In any which case, good law, cops need to have probable cause to accost you otherwise why do it?

  36. correction, you are detained when they stop you to question you for any reason, you can’t just turn around and walk away, therefore you are being detained.

  37. I don’t think you understand what detainment means. It has nothing to do with being arrested or being put into a car. They are absolutely detaining you if they are questioning you on the street. Read up on your rights.

  38. “You progressive idiots assume” and ” you’re statistically very likely to be a white person.” Careful genius your stupidity is showing. There is a link that provides a clear definition of the intention of the statement. The statement isn’t claiming that white people don’t get accosted by cops, it isn’t claiming that most white people don’t get accosted by cops and yet you seem to take it that way. If you read it in context it is saying that if you are not aware of this fact you are more likely white then another option. Let me help you break that down, the statement is claiming that a fraction of a fraction of white people are unaware that police are accosting people legally without suspicion of any wrong doing. It at no point even suggests that people like you don’t exist or that white people don’t share this problem. Typical conservative uninformed rant.

  39. It used to happen to me quite a bit when I was a teenager in London Ontario, less so when I moved to Toronto in my 20’s. Back then I looked like a “punk”, for lack of a better description, so I guess that made me “suspicious” no matter where I was or what I was doing. As I grew older, my outward appearance toned down, and the random stops decreased. That’s a luxury non-white people, and blacks in particular, don’t get to enjoy, so it makes perfect sense to me that they’ve been targeted a lot more on average than white people. Nobody’s suggesting it doesn’t happen to whites as well, just that it’s less likely and happens less often. In fact, I got pulled over a few days ago (I’m white, btw, in case that wasn’t clear), and the cop explained that when I drove by, he thought I looked like I was about 20, and my car’s registered to someone older. I thought about it for a second, and decided that was a pretty legit excuse to pull me over, since if there was some 20 year old driving around in my car, I’d appreciate the police stopping him to check it out. So I was reasonable, and he was reasonable, and that was the end of it. Different sort of thing, I realize, because (assuming he was telling the truth) he had a fair and legitimate reason for pulling me over, unlike the old days when they just hassled me for looking wrong.

  40. I see a bit of misinfo in the comments here. Here’s a quick explanation for you all.

    As you’re aware of Section 8 and 9 of the charter, you have the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure, and you have the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned respectively. However, a lot of you don’t seem to understand what these things really are.

    Unreasonable search and seizure: There are specific guidelines for what an officer may or may not look for, just on arrest alone. A police officer is legally allowed to “pat you down” if they believe they have a reasonable risk to their own safety if they don’t. No, they can’t empty you upside down and shake you for drugs. This applies to detention only. Upon ARREST, they MUST search you for weapons, evidence, and means of escape. Now that we understand cops CAN search you under reasonable circumstances,

    S 9: Right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned. This is correct. You cannot be arrested, detained, or imprisoned without reason. However, these things do not apply when you are being carded. Why? Because you are not being detained. A Police Officer is asking you for your identification. Because they are an officer of the law and you are misinformed, you do not actually have to give it to them, barring a ton of other legitimate reasons an officer can just simply detain/arrest you for walking around in the street. But in the case of carding, you are not under arrest, detention, or imprisonment. You are simply being questioned, however uncomfortably you may feel about it. You can leave at any time, regardless of what that officer might say. If they downright lie to you, simply record their name and badge, and go file a complaint.

    So, let’s recap. You are voluntarily surrendering your personal information, they are not running through your pockets looking for ID. You are not being detained or imprisoned, arbitrarily is subjective here but doesn’t apply. You are simply under the impression you are obligated to do as you are told. Which, for the most part, you actually are, but not in this sense.

    Tl;Dr Nothing illegal actually going on here except maybe racial profiling and some sort of need for all of this information anyway. But the council caved, and now when the police talk to you, it’ll be because they think you’re related to an invent or investigation, in which case you are legally being detained anyway.

    Funny story btw, case law dictates that officer interaction with the public by itself is NOT detainment. Otherwise everytime they talked to anyone they’d be breaking the law.

    >The more you know.

    Edit: The google dictionary definition of detainment, and the legal definition of detainment found in the criminal code are two different things, and one enjoys an amazingly legal grey area so Police Officers can actually do their jobs.

  41. AMEN to this…..now they can`t bother you JUST because they don`t like your look or the people you hang with….especially good for guy`s on bikes. :-)

  42. Umm…. They can’t do anything…. sure they can stop to ask question, anyone is allowed to do that, but you don’t legally after to entertain their questioning if they aren’t suspecting you of a crime, in which they need have a reason for. Unless you are in a vehicle of course, then the police have the right to stop you.

  43. Folks, this isn’t as simple as looking up an online dictionary and stating the obvious. Legal definitions vary from literal ones, in a lot of cases. Has anybody actually looked THAT up and have a credible source?

    Having said that, I’ve been stopped and questioned even overseas – Australia – for being dark skinned & wearing a hoodie (although they’ll tell you that “it’s a random search”). I wasn’t sure of the laws here but did get the names and badge #s of the officers for the record. It sometimes also helps to record the incident on your phone’s voice recorder. However most times, I have no problem with being questioned if there is ‘just cause’ to do so.

  46. First of all, you mental midget, I am a Liberal, just not one that prescribes to a lot of the limp-wristed, double standard garbage that has been going around in in the progressive circles as of the last….20 or so years. The fact that the article, and most articles like this one, always play the Race Card and never fail to mention a link between whites and special protection and consideration when it comes to cops, job availability and chances of employment e.t.c is a fucking stereotype in and of itself.

    If this or any other article would have featured ANYTHING in a bold type link going along the lines of “If you’re not aware of the fact that not all whites are privileged snobs _you most likely statistically are a black person_” the fucking hammer of wrath would have come down on someone, jobs would have been lost, credibility ruined for life and so on. But no, go ahead and mention whites as the stereotypical “Satan” of the prog movement, media. I’m here, white….and getting ready for my breakfast of babies.

    Bullshit.

  51. But what you are doing and where you are going are none of their business. They need probable cause not mere curiosity.

  52. They r public servants acting like they are the law when they should be enforcing the law

  53. I don’t know how they were either but I was “carded” a lot in highschool and so was my brother. They would interrogate us and detain us for no reason. Also falsely arrested my brother on more than one occasion. Once even in my own school while the teachers did nothing. Depending who you are and how you look your dealings with the police will be very different. My encounters and the abuse my family suffered is something I still live with, moreso angry at how they abused my brother who spend more than one night in jail on a false arrest

  54. Tell them that when their asking you to put your hands up in the air while your waiting at a bus stop going thru your pockets lol. True story. Apparent I fit a description and the only description they gave me was I had a blue jacket on… Huh?

    Or the time the TTC cops pulled me right off the train no explanation only to find out they mistook me for another suspect… The only thing we had in common was we were black, the person they were looking for was 60 years older than me. I have ridiculous stories like this for days.

  55. When a police officer stops you for no reason do this.

    1) Take your camera out and film the encounter for your own safety, you are allowed to do this as they are a public servant***

    2) Ask if you have been suspected of committing a crime, if no proceed to next step, if yes ask them to state the law, if they don’t know it OR if they don’t go out of their way to show you the law via their access to the criminal code or bylaws, then it doesn’t exist or if it does chances are they are twisting it.

    3) Ask if you are being detained, if no proceed to next step, if yes then ask them for what crime you are being detained for. If they don’t come up with one, you are not being detained.

    4) If you are not being detained by them, tell them to have a nice day and walk away because there are no laws which force you to talk to a police officer EVEN if you’ve committed a crime you have the right to remain silent and wait for an attorney.

    5) If they come up and touch you while you walk away after they have specifically stated that you are not being detained, you have not committed any crimes or because they think you can’t record them in public, sue the fuck out of them and make some $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    That being said, if a cop is coming up to you to have a friendly convorsation, who cares, just talk to them, it’s when they start asking you for your ID, your address, your name — that’s when you get on edge.

    ***

    There is no law in Canada that prevents a member of the public
    from taking photographs or video in a public place (other than some
    limitations related to sensitive defense installations);

    There is no law in Canada that prevents a member of the public
    from taking photographs or video of a police officer executing his or
    her duties in public or in a location lawfully controlled by the
    photographer (in fact, police officers have no privacy rights in public
    when executing their duties);

    Preventing a person from taking photos or video is a prima facie infringement of a person’s Charter rights;

    You cannot interfere with a police officer’s lawful execution
    of his or her duties, but taking photos or videos does not, in and of
    itself, constitute interference;

    A police officer cannot take your phone or camera simply for recording him or her, as long as you were not obstructing;

    These privileges are not reserved to media — everyone has these rights;

    A police officer cannot make you unlock your phone to show him or her your images; and

    A police officer cannot make you delete any photos.

  56. This is just one more advantage for crime…this isn’t the answer, finding a solution to get rid of stereotypical “instincts” in the police force should be the target. I blame the Media.

  57. If I was a cop I would question you just for spelling “that” as “dat”…highly suspicious that your an illiterate banger.

  58. Under the law when they stop and ask you a question it’s not considered detain mentioned due to the fact that you can leave. But, the problem is if you choose to not answer questions and not talk to them and just walk away you give them cause to actually detain you and arrest you temporarily because you are now “suspicious”. So a lot of the time it’s easier to co-operate. To all that just say you can walk away you obviously don’t understand. If an officer goes to court and says they saw what they thought was you acting suspicious and approached you to investigate and question you and then you tried to take off and that’s why they arrested you, you won’t have much of a case unless you have some crazy evidence. It’s based on the officers perception not based on reality and as long as they can show a possible cause for the stop they’ll be fine.

  59. It’s about time! But of course it would be a problem to the police because they go behind the badge to harass anyone that don’t look like them! we need to take a stand more for our rights myself included ! you can be a cop and kill someone and get to go home on a $50,000 bail when you are WHITE! WOW!

  60. Sorry dear! yes there papers says that! But only when it suits their purpose! Look in the U.S they have a law the allow the NYPD police the harass you and the turn around and add insult to injury and kiss you weather or nor you like it! So in Canada they copycat the states they sneeze and we catch a cold over here!

  61. So true! The logo on their cars should read TO SERVE US AND PROTECT US! not to Serve and Protect!

  62. unless they’re physically searching you or taking any of your belongings, it’s not a search and seizure.

  63. Sorry to hear these! But just wear a uniform for the government and you can get away with anything! but what go around come back around! and the sins of the parents falls on their children and it goes for me and the rest of the world! bet on that when the shoes goes on the other foot it squeeze tight ! Lol try it!

  66. I don’t think people has a problem with been questioned but for what cause? and is it been done to every race or just certain ones?

  67. Educated them! just like a group of young white male hanging out they are just hanging out let some black kids do that same thing they are drug dealer! this is the logo they will soon give us to wear -WALKING TALKING AND BEEN BORN BLACK IS A CRIME! But at the end of the day we all use toilet tissue and our hands go the same way to wipe!

  68. True! because the only way you as a black person can drive a nice car is if you are a drug dealer! and their is no White drug dealers !

  70. I TAKE IT YOU ARE ONE OR HAVE ONE IN YOUR FAMILY! MR JOHN DOE! IS’NT THAT WHAT THEY CALL DEAD PEOPLE THAT THEY DON’T KNOW THERE NAMES?

  71. i have got pulled over 16 times now in the past two years by the halton regional police mostly

  72. It happens so much to dark skinned young males (in particular) and even more so in certain neighborhoods, that I had to go to great lengths to make sure my youngest two children never walked anywhere without me .. have been driving them back and forth to school for a few years now at much expense, and sacrifice.
    Because I saw how wrong it went to trust my older sons to the world. I mean ridiculous stops. Had to go to bus stops the get them from police harassment. Had to go to the dog park with ID to prove who my son was before they would let him go. In broad daylight playing with his dog in a designated family dog park …. and no one else of the 55 ppl in the park were asked for ID.
    I asked the Policemen why they stopped him? We need to check his ID. I asked why? To see if he has warrants. What about him made you think he would have warrants for his arrest? We just want to make sure everyone is safe ma’am. Was he walking the dog dangerously or something???!!! Calm down ma’am it is our job.
    Had to go to court so many times with my 17 year old when he got his license for the first time … he was stopped THREE TIMES IN ONE DAY. Another son was driving his girlfriend’s car she had never been stopped for anything in the 2 years she had the car (she is white and blonde, and has a bit of a heavy foot on the gas pedal) he was driving her car with her on passenger side on the way to work a saturday morning 730 am, he was pulled over while doing speed limit with his seat belt on, and given a ticket for the license plate cover that she had on the car since she bought it from the dealership.
    Another son had so many stops and fake tickets he lost his license cause he couldnt keep up with all the fines, when he lost his license he couldnt get to work in the bush where he worked, then he couldnt pay insurance premium that was cancelled and now when he goes to reinstate it … it will be double because he was cancelled for non payment.
    Oh yes —- its BRUTAL out there for young brown and black skinned males … so much that I worry about writing this in public.
    Make no mistake.

  73. I’d guess I’d also question you for the improper use of the word your. It’s you’re*.

    Let’s not get all high and mighty on the Internet and stick to the original discussion. Racial profiling IS prevalent in Toronto. The police just lost a $2 million lawsuit because of their shenanigans when they decided to pull over a lawyer.

    My sisters boyfriend was pulled in our driveway and they actually harassed him… We live in Markham. They say they were looking for a stolen car… If they run licence plates then what reason did they have. Lol GTA police force is such a joke, and I hope they get sued again and again.

  74. They have tried to talk to me many times. I always ask ” Am i a suspect in something you are presently investigating?” They answer no. “Alright then, i have things to do. See you around.” And walk away. Only ever had one try to push it further. You have the right to walk away anytime you want. Not many will push it.

  76. Its call patois? ……. It should be called, part of the reason we as a group are lower than everyone else on the fucking planet. Learn the language and customs of the land you live in. ‘When in Rome, do as the Romans do.’ You live in Canada. Speak English, or French for that matter. Stop dressing like an idiot. Stop cranking attitude at everyone. Stay in school, or push your kids to. Take every opportunity to learn something new. Everyday. Stop listening to respond. Start listening to understand. Stop paying attention to the media. Its skewed and has ruined what was left of black heritage.

    Kids dont start off racists. They learn it. Cops are like this because, the high percentage of lower end street level crime in Toronto is perpetrated by YBM’s. Thats an actual statistic. Just like the vast majority of single vehicle accidents in Toronto are Asian drivers. Drunken brawls, YWM’s. I can go on and on. Being black and watching other blacks come up with three dozen excuses to why we are where we are makes me sad. And mad. The only way to fix this is to fix our families and our media. Perception becomes reality. We have to change our image by changing ourselves.

  77. I am not a police officer nor any of my family aren’t police officer. But I am a College student that is taking Security, Protection and Investigation.. Police are there to serve and protect the community, you should be lucky that you are in a multicultural city with nice people and low crime rates, not every cities have what we have. You should go to other city in different parts in North America and see how bad their crime rates are, let me give an example ” New York”, their crime rates went up 6.3% and that’s only for gun violence. Toronto’s crime rates is ranked one of the lowest and safest city in North America. So if you don’t feel safe in Toronto, go move somewhere else, where you think is safe and cops won’t stop you for no reason. Thank you, and I hope I proved my point to you.

  78. Hi FrancesMC,
    “what you’re doing and where you are going is none of their business” ?
    yes you’re right but what you’re doing it is their problem, why ?, because doing something in “public property” which is owned by the government, so basically they can do anything when you’re doing something wrong in public places, otherwise stay in your property or property to whom you associate with. “where you are going” isn’t their business, they want to make sure they don’t see you again if something happens, and that you aren’t apart of it.

  79. read section 32 of the charter you find out the Charter doesn`t apply to you it only applies to federal provincial and territorial gov`t and their legislators it does not apply to individuals and business`s

    Application of Charter

    32. (1) This Charter applies

    (a) to
    the Parliament and government of Canada in respect of all matters
    within the authority of Parliament including all matters relating to the
    Yukon Territory and Northwest Territories; and

    (b) to
    the legislature and government of each province in respect of all
    matters within the authority of the legislature of each province.

    Marginal note:Exception

    (2) Notwithstanding subsection (1), section 15 shall not have effect until three years after this section comes into force.

  80. just ask them what the nature of their investigation is if its you shut up stop talking let them do what ever they want to and sue the phoque out of them 72 hours later when you get out

  81. if you must talk to them do not cooperate answer their questions with one of yours they get royally pissed off… they have a false belief they are in charge never give your complete name or birth date or address the federal Gov`t in canada just recently declared you no longer have to provide a principal address

  82. opinions are not facts and or evidence read people read this comes from the canada evidence act

    Right of refusal to answer or produce document

    50. (1) Any
    person examined under any order made under this Part has the like right
    to refuse to answer questions tending to criminate himself, or other
    questions, as a party or witness, as the case may be, would have in any
    cause pending in the court by which, or by a judge whereof, the order is
    made.

    Laws about witnesses to apply — video links etc.

    (1.1) Despite subsection (1), when a party or witness gives evidence under subsection 46(2),
    the evidence shall be given as though they were physically before the
    court or tribunal outside Canada, for the purposes of the laws relating
    to evidence and procedure but only to the extent that giving the
    evidence would not disclose information otherwise protected by the
    Canadian law of non-disclosure of information or privilege.

  83. I’m sorry to hear this UrbanBreeze,
    This isn’t about racial, Toronto Police have cops that are brown and black skinned, I’ve asked so many people, “what if a black or browned” skinned police officers stop you frequently and asked you questions, would you feel discriminated now ?, but other than that, police officers are there to serve and protect our community and it makes us feel safe at night, makes us sleep good, right ?. Our younger generation teenagers tend to walk in a “crew” (that does mischief) and tend to have “illegal” drugs on them, I’ve went to high school with a lot of them and I know how teenagers are. Police officers are there to teach our generation teenagers that taking drugs and doing mischief isn’t the right way, and it can lead them in jail with a criminal record which leads to not having a job career, when they ask you for a police background/criminal record check they will be turned down for the career job they wanted. I hope you have a clear understanding. P.S I myself am brown and I don’t really care if a police officer stops me for no reason in public because I don’t have anything to hide and I do have a clear understanding what they do.

  84. So basic they carded you, just because you were African decent?, they said “ohh I’m going to give you a card because you’re African decent” ?, if a black or brown police officer kept carding you, would you still feel offended ?. I’m brown a white police officer always stops me, but I don’t feel offended about it, because I don’t have anything to hide, I know its their job, and you shouldn’t feel offended about it. We live in a city that is multicultural and the majority people are brown and black.

  85. This doesn’t apply to Section 8 or 9 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms provides everyone in Canada with protection against unreasonable “search” and “seizure”. This right provides Canadians with their primary source of constitutionally enforced privacy rights against unreasonable intrusion from the state. Typically, this protects personal information that can be obtained through searching someone in pat-down, entering someone’s property or surveillance.

    A police officer who compels someone to produce their
    licence would not be invasive enough to constitute a search. Equally, an
    inspection of the inside of a car is not a search, but questions about the
    contents of a bag would be. It has also been ruled that the use of a police dog
    as a means to gain probable cause to search is also in itself a violation of
    Section 8, and that other factors must be present before a police dog can be
    used and a search executed.

    The Supreme Court of Canada found that the entry into a
    private home without a warrant constitutes a violation of Section 8.

    The use of wiretapping technology is also considered a
    “search” for the purpose of Section 8. Warrantless wiretapping can
    sometimes be justified under section 1 of the Charter” in cases where exigent
    circumstances exist; however the Supreme Court of Canada found in R. v. Tse,
    2012 SCC 16 that when police use such tactics, they must promptly notify the
    individual whose reasonable expectation of privacy has been infringed.

    The application of Section 8 of the Charter is not limited
    to the criminal context, and has become an issue in civil forfeiture
    litigation, with some courts holding that “exactly the same Charter
    principles apply to the manner in which that evidence is obtained as would be applicable
    in a criminal case.

    The meaning of seizure is fairly straightforward. The Court
    defined it simply as the “taking of a thing from a person by a public
    authority without that person’s consent.” This meaning has been narrowed
    to cover property taken in furtherance of administration or criminal
    investigation.

  86. Just because you are too weak to stand up for the rights guaranteed to you by our charter doesn’t mean everyone else should be as complacent as you. The responsible citizen makes sure their rights and the rights of those around them are being upheld. I have nothing to hide either, but by no means will waive my rights and be treated like a prisoner.

  87. Refusing to answer questions and not cooperating is not against the law. In fact any half decent lawyer or semi-intelligent person will tell you to NEVER speak to police under ANY circumstances.

  89. You know were all supposed to have our healthcare, homes travel requirements and other stuff all paid for too according to the charter, right?

  90. and did you ask for the reason for being pulled over ? if no reason did you ask if you can go since you have a constitutional right to do so unless you have been detained by police ?

  91. and what right is that to stop any vehicle ? They still must have a reason to stop you,

  92. Opinions are not facts lets make this very clear. Also evidence is a tangible, physical thing that can be presented in a court to support the charge as proof the accused did it. I know this, but detaining is also not arresting or charging. Detaining is a temperary holding, which can take place in the same place they stopped to talk to you. The point of it is to aquire evidence to make an arrest. You dont need evidence for detaining, you just need something that can be written on paper as to why you did it(opinion). The evidence is the difference between a detain and an arrest.

  93. This is a dictionary definition, but there is likely a legal definition which is different.

  94. Wow, you’re an idiot.

    What I’m doing is NOT their problem, ever: provided it is lawful. It’s not up to ME to tell them what I’m doing. If they suspect me of a crime, they can arrest me.

    The only consolation to this is knowing that with your level of intelligence and lack of respect for the Charter it’s unlikely you’ll pass in College and just end up an overnight rent-a-cop at some construction site.

  95. yes and its theirs when you read the charter it is there to restrain Gov`t and their employees so if as the say in section 52 of the charter

    Section 52 – Constitution Act, 1982

    The Constitution of Canada is the supreme law of Canada, and any law
    that is inconsistent with the provisions of the Constitution is, to the
    extent of the inconsistency, of no force or effect.

    so if it is the supreme law and can not apply to you how does all the inferior ones apply……………… they can`t and don`t unless of coarse you consent . Are we not governed by consent …………….yes of course and even when consent is withdrawn they still hold you to it ..so file a notice of mistake ask them to prove some thing that you are the name on the document they charged you with …………….All gov`t issued ID is oked by gov`t employees and ministries …….it is their property they can demand its return when ever they want so if they can demand its return how can the person on the ID ever be you ………you are not surety for the name just look at your birth certificate the surety is the name of the person who signed it

  96. Mr Doe with all due respect. It is arrogance and blind presumption of the HIGHEST order that you are telling people how they should feel??? “You shouldn’t feel offended about it???” Then to insert your personal experience as if to say it should apply to all is astoundingly RIDICULOUS my friend. Let me remind you about something YOU as an intelligent individual already know……..PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT!

  97. Its been said before but it bears repeating:

    Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 9 states very clearly:

    “9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned.”

    How did they get away with this in the first place? And whose heads are going to roll for years of violation?

  98. Spoken like a true sheep. If any Officer or Branch of the Government stops you for any reason other than that of; Suspecting you of committing a crime or is investigating you. Then, yes, I may feel offended. If you do not exercise your rights as is stated in the Charter of RIGHTS and FREEDOM. Then, don’t be surprise if they take them away all together. Not, having anything to hide does not, I repeat, DOES NOT give a Police Officer the right to stop me nor the right to stop and Interrogate Me.. I just wish to walk freely as God intended.

    And, if you live under the Illusion that Blacks and other visible Minorities on a whole are not stopped more frequently and treated less fairly in the judicial system. Then, i guess you’ve lived a very sheltered life or is a part of the top 1% of the Wealthy and Powerful.

    Wake up Sheep…

  99. @John Doe : “I myself am brown and I don’t really care if a police officer stops me for no reason in public because I don’t have anything to hide and I do have a clear understanding what they do.”

    And that exact sentiment among too many people is how we lose our civil liberties and natural rights and devolve into military state control.

    Let me be clear: they are *servants* paid with our taxes that should fear us, not the other way around. They should be darn sure that I have committed a crime or am a substantive witness to such before bothering me all.

  100. Canadian citizens are not the slaves or niggers of the State. You do not have to identify yourself or answer police questions. They have to identify themselves to you and provide you with the ‘probable cause’ of their attempting to detain and interrogate you in public.

  102. This has happened to me many times, and I’m a white female. I’m from Mississauga, and the Peel region cops do this all time. I can’t make a proper comparison on Toronto vs Peel, or even the frequency based on skin colour. But I can tell you that it definitely does not only happen to non-white individuals. I’m glad to see that Toronto is taking action to stop this though. I hope Peel makes the same decision .

  103. Probably someone already said this, but just questioning you does not amount to detention. You are free to leave at any time, and you have no obligation to answer any questions.

  105. Let me try to add some real world perspective..I hear ‘fight for your rights’ ‘you have the right to…’ Etc ETC….look
    This is all a croc of ish… The ugly truth is they have always done and will continue to do WHATEVER THEY DAMN WELL PLEASE!!..
    I heard something about a camera phone…my cousin did that once when we were witnesses to an arrest…know what they did…they TOOK IT.
    My ex-girlfriend’s brother has a record….tried to turn his life around but they wouldn’t let him..They followed him one night …stopped and searched him …and when they found nothing they were so angry they took him to a parking lot and beat him for being ‘mouthie’..he pissed blood for days…we made a complaint..know what they said?…There were no witnesses to the alleged assault…and if he was stopped he must have been doing SOMETHING
    They did everything to get at him…kicked in his door with a fake warrant..they found nothing of course so he wasn’t charged..but he was evicted over it. Eventually he said screw it and started hustling again…guess where he is now. The point to all this is….we have no rights as far as the police are concerned. You can say stand up for justice all you want…but it gets pretty lonely when you’re the only one getting the life beat out of you..nobody stood with us then ..so why would that change? When you mention these things to ‘regular people’ they say “No way…that doesn’t happen in Canada” or it must be an isolated incident….well it isn’t ..happens all the time…just only in certain areas..to certain people. No little receipt is going to change that….when you ask for your receipt and they refuse to give it to you….what then?..
    Maybe I am being cynical…but I cannot help..I have seen too much…. I have little faith left in humanity and its power to make social change. When ‘regular people’ hear things like this…they say to themselves..”oh that’s terrible..somebody should do something about it” then go back to their comfortable lives….and therein lies the reason why none of this means a thing…because you’re comfortable and you don’t want to rock the boat…

  106. It doesn’t matter what legislation, bills or acts are out there which apparently “prohibited” police in Toronto from doing what they have been doing for decades. Police that beat non resisters, that harass you, bully you and in general, make life in a vast majority of area’s of Toronto, hell. 20 years ago this was happening. 30 years ago it was happening. It hasn’t stopped, only gotten worse. Oh, and if you filed a complaint, first who were you going to file a complaint with? The police. If you did, you were specifically targeted for more of the same abuse of power. Disgusting, and always has been.

    Only when people KNOW about their rights, and the limitations of that Power, can this kind of abuse stop. Video tape an encounter, use your phone and YES, you ARE allowed to. Record everything. Know your rights and use them, don’t abuse them.

  107. lol I had printed out the Canadian Charter of Freedoms years back in high school and used to carry it around on occasion when one time a couple of pigs stopped and searched my friends and i. They LITERALLY took my rights away and proceeded to hold my head against the road with a lovely knee to the back only to be released minutes later with no apology. This was all during that Italy/France Soccer match years back, my friends and i were going through town with a huge Canadian potleaf flag “booing” all the people walking around with Italian/France flags. Never saw my Charter again. Pigs can/will do whatever they want on the streets to enforce their own beliefs… Cops however do not..

  109. Anthony that’s called being detained. More accurately arbitrarily detained.

  111. Actually if things escalate and the police end up making an arrest that you’ve recorded they have the right to take your recording device as evidence.

    The act of recording a confrontation is viewed by some as an attempt paint them in a negative light. Even as security if someone starts recording I automatically feel under threat, either that we’re being set up or that the person being filmed will use the camera as an excuse to act up. I’ve never experienced the former but the later has happened to us in the past.

    Everyone here talks about how to “fight back” against the police. Yes there are bad cops out there, I know… I’ve had to deal with them. But making their jobs harder doesn’t make things better for you, it makes them worse. Police are people too and they get frustrated, stop making things harder on them and you’ll find they’re often pretty relaxed.

    Having said that I have nothing but bad things to say about a certain police division in Toronto. I’d put money on them being the main culprit for this legal change… This is why we can’t have nice things.

  113. Lol, I’m a fucking idiot ?, I’m well educated and I bet my IQ average is better than yours. You go to a City like New York and see how dad there crime is compared to ours. It seems to me that you weren’t well educated to the fact that police officers work 24/7 and risk their lives, If we didn’t have police officers on the street, (people like you, who hate police officers and that aren’t fucking well educated) wouldn’t even sleep at night.

  114. He who has the guns makes the rules, folks. The first rule is that you may not have any guns. I wonder why that might be.

  115. I’m sure the Jews who were send to friendly Polish summer camps in the 1930s felt the same way before the train ride.

  116. I have been, many times, detained by out-of-towners, older folks, and even homeless people to ask for money, directions, help, etc. I have responded to all of them nicely and I have not had to pull out my Canadian Charter of Freedoms copy nor feel “detained” as defined above. I sure would answer any questions, without any problem, if a Police officer stops me as I have nothing to fear or feel offended. It is called respect, and I understand there are issues with abuse of power and all, but the Police is in place for a reason and I fully stand behind its purpose. I won’t let a few bad apples change my attitude towards a police office. And I am far from being a ‘sheep’ as mentioned somewhere in the discussion too.
    No, I am not white! I am a law abiding citizen with nothing to fear!
    Apparently most people claim discrimination for their color, isn’t this attitude towards police discrimination towards a particular type of public servant? Eye for eye? Really? Is this how bad Canadian society has turned out there? Anyone care to offer any opinions on how make it a better place or mend the differences with the police force instead of just dumping on it?
    I say, they should log all incidents where they have to stop someone in the street stating cause and results. Have their logs randomly revised by a government ethics body separate from Police.

  117. but they rnt searching or seizing or detaining or imprisoning … they r just asking couple questions. so it wasnt wrong but doing it to a certain type of ppl was wrong

  118. Why do you people keep saying charter of rights ?… Charter of rights and freedom doesn’t have nothing to do with this. If police officers stop you on the streets and ask you your name and where you’re going, it isn’t so hard to tell them and it does not go against charter of rights and freedom. If people like you that don’t feel comfortable because a police officer stops you on the streets and you take Toronto police officers to court and tell the judge “A police officer stopped me to asked me my name and where I’m going, and you don’t feel comfortable about it and you feel you feel like a prisoner, and it goes against our charter of rights and freedom” , you know the judge will say ?, he will laugh first and be like “are you really serious about this ? it isn’t against the charter of rights and freedom, the only thing they can’t do is check your pockets because it is your property, and the cops need a warrant which is in the charter of rights and freedom on section 8, Other than that your name and where you’re going doesn’t go against charter of rights. people like you should have an understanding that, yes we do have charter of rights and freedom, but they do have gaps in them, if we didn’t have gaps in them, the people who did the right thing the wrong way, wouldn’t have a criminal record or wouldn’t be in jail. So I hope you have an understanding that they’re gaps in the Canadian charter of rights and freedom and police officers know what’s in the charter of rights, if it does go against the charter of rights, judges and lawyers would be all over it.. Anything that cops plan to do such as stopping random people on the streets , has to be approved by a judge first, such as warrants for a person property.

  119. Lmfao, How am I telling people how they should feel ?, I’m not telling how they should feel, they can feel happy, sad or angry because that’s their problem. The thing is people feel as if they’re in prison because of what police officers do. We have police officers there to protect us and to serve us when something goes wrong, I’m not judging people, but they should have an understanding that it is part of there jobs. Some people feel that police officers are raciest, how are they raciest ?, I see many white teenagers get pulled over by cops. Toronto is a Multicultural city where we have more colored people than white, So how can white police officers be raciest about that ?. I’m not judging, making telling them how they should feel, making fun of them in any shape of form. Because a brown person like me, that also gets stopped by a police officers frequently, know that it is part of their jobs and people shouldn’t feel like they’re in prison, uncomfortable, racial about it. I’m making sure that they know that it is part of their jobs and they’re there to keep you safe from violent or any sort of things..

  120. Uhm.. well I am awake, and charter of rights and freedom have gaps in them, so hope you understand that. YOU, need to wake up and go back to school and learn about the Canadian charter of rights and freedom because they do have PROS & CONS, and you shouldn’t feel interrogated because a police officers stop you for no reason, because all I’m hearing is that, police officers are raciest, they make you feel as if you’re in prison, you should take a visit to prison and see how they really treat you there. Myself as a brown person have been stopped by a police officer frequently, and I know its part of their jobs.
    So basically you should wake up and be more educated, because from what I seeing, you aren’t.. You don’t even know what police officers do.

  121. The rest of your comment has already been addressed but I would like to make you aware that the majority of the city is in no way made up by black people. I’m not sure of the percentage in terms of brown people but as a whole, black people make up less than 10% of Toronto’s population, and most likely much less than that. The fact that police were profiling and carding more visible minorities when some of these groups make up such a small percentage of the population is the reason why this matter has been discussed and debated over continuously and I’m extremely happy that there are now laws in place to stop this unnecessary harassment. “I know its their job”??? them putting laws in place to stop it from happening means it was not their job and whenever this kind of unlawful treatment happens to me I am extremely offended as it is a violation of my rights.

  122. I DID NOT know that cops worked 24/7 and risk their lives, thats news to me!!! please tell me more!!!
    PS noone said lets take officers off the streets.
    and stop assuming shit, i never said i hate cops

  123. stop posting shit here and do something better with your time and serve us all the burden of having to read or skip your posts…thank you!!!

  124. John doe have no clue of what’s going on….and why we have to bring
    education in this discussion? Long story short I was in Canada for only
    five months, just migrated from Jamaica, now all my life my mother
    always told me to have respect for life, police officers, my teachers,
    the elders etc and i do to this day…..but why after only 5 months in
    Toronto i was sitting in a donut shop cops came in ask me to stand up, i
    stand up and address him as sir, he then punch me in the stomach and
    said “Did i tell you to call me sir”. I deserve the rights to live like
    any other man. I still love Canada. Thing is there’s always going to be
    good people, bad people, good cops, bad cops. All these police officers
    are well trained they can tell when someone is really up to no good. I
    am in construction and I work for 3 police officers already and they
    where great people, they all trust me with the keys to their houses till
    the job was done. But don’t be naive they are still racist people out
    there not just cops either…..That’s my little take on this. We need to
    all get along ONE LOVE!!!!!!

  125. Jeremy…thank god theres people like you…we need less people like John Doehead.

  127. It has everything to do with the charter doe (how aptly named)…to fail to see this illuminates the source of your complacency nescience and ovine attitude.
    What vwry few realize its ultimately about ACCOUNTING.
    I bet you have no clue as to what Im saying.
    Put it this way.you have two basictypes of rights…inalienable and unalienable. Do you know the difference? The second..you CANNOT WAIVE…nor xan it ecer me taken. Your right to CONTRACT.
    This is where the charter comes in dumb dumb (sorry ad hominem comments are admissable since you brought in your personal trash as examples)..Section two…Freedom of association…and NON ASSOCIATION. In a worst case scenario (arrested for a crime) ypu have the right to remain silent…you surely have that right when youve done nothing wrong.
    Its not a matter of politenesa…its business. And a cop has no business aaking you what youre doing. Merely stopping you without JUST CAUSE (I.e. youre a suspect to a crime) violates your CHARTERED right to travel creely and conduct your business. Every second of your life is precious qnd if you wanna waste yours telling a cop shit thats none of his business…go ahead. I am expensive as my time is my kife so any cip sripping ti waste my time will be bulled accortingly. They are part of a corporation whose main lurpose is to enforce policy. ..and generate revenue. Id you wnna be q party to that go ahead. I do not. Just like a John Doe coming up to me and asking me my business… I tell both to fuck off. A conversation is a CONTRACT. .. nd I do not wish to contraxt with pokice esp when they actively stop people to CARD them and compile data.
    Like with any contract…there must be consideration. So I consider what is the reason for the cop wanting to talk to me…what is there reasonable grounds and probable suspicions. And he/she better provide that…or they are violating my CHAETER RIGHTS…Doehead. They beyter show me their CPIC APB… which they better when I ask for it under the freedom of info act. Otherwise…as a VM…rhey are profiling me.
    And you better believe I profile them! So im suspect becusw Im blaxk? Well they are suspects because they are cops and theres pkenty of evidence ro show that they shoot and rase innoxent people…so no xop can come near me if they are armed. Im not armed so why should they be…there cn be no meetings of rhe minds with such lopsided parricipants…and rhat weaponry can bw uswd ro intimidye one into n unwnted contraxt unser duress. So any armed cop…can beat it cuz I dont xontraxt with people who are dangerous…and its my chartered rihht to have that freedom of choice.
    You wanna be a sheep and comply…to be a nice guy… go ahead.
    Just remember…nothing you say can or will be used FOR you in a court of law

  128. Just because the GTA is mulricultural doesnt make it excusable for police to profile. What an assinine statement.
    And youre naive if you think they are here to protect and serve you. Read their contract… a xop is under no obligation to protext you or put them selves in harms way ro protect you they are armed and armored to protext themselves…not you.
    The ethnic makup of an area doesnt make a xop rqxist. Police policy to stop VMs and rheir aytitudes make them racist. White xops resent other cops of colir…so they are even racist against their own. One cop told me he despised his black partner because she filled a quota while his white buddy (who, unlike her…hs never committed a crime as a kid and knows NO ONE pwrsonally who haa….the fact that she wa black meant she MUST know criminals) was a security guard waiting to get into the force.
    But youre right to imply that cops arent racist. They are…indiscriminate. You’re either a conformist or you’re a problem. Youre either blue or youre a suspwct…no mattwr what race you are. Thats how policw states work. Target one group…and branch out til no ones safe.
    Wake up you sheeple

  133. LMFAOOO, So why do we have cops ?, what’s the point of have cops if they don’t “Serve” and “protect” us ?, why do cops get shot for protecting others ?, when you become a police officer, you are sworn under oath and your badge, and I would like to see where you read their contract.

    A cop wouldn’t tell a stranger like you, that ” he despised his black partner because she filled a quota while his white buddy and etc..” your opinion is irrelevant…

    Question, Do you like cops ? Yes or No, and why ?

  134. You’re right, ” that the majority of the city is in no way made up by black people.” but they’re made up by Immigrants, that makes out city “Multicultural”. But why do you feel offended about a police officer stopping you to ask you questions ?. Police officer that asks people what’s their “Name” and “where they’re going” isn’t an “unlawful treatment” and you can not feel offended and violated about that, it isn’t part of your rights, a police officer that asks you a question doesn’t violates your rights, it doesn’t go with the Canadian charter of rights and freedom. The only thing they cant do is to check your property which is your house, apartment,car,pockets,wallets,bags,lockers , your name isn’t your private property.

    Question Arielle Best, from London, Ontario

    Why do you feel violated and offended that police officers are asking you ?, and why don’t you like police officers ?

  137. Making their jobs harder? Its there job To detain and harass people? rob them of their basic civil liberties? Since when

  138. “Police officers are there to teach our generation teenagers that taking drugs and doing mischief …” clearly this kid is a stupid naive dumb dumb…
    If he thinks that is what pilice are “there for”. Wow.
    Let him wallow…this guy is so brainwashed with the shit he says …its appaling
    Rein…cleaely you get it. Doe…cleaely doesnt.
    Let him be fodder

  139. More bullshit.
    Where do you get this shit from?
    “Now your suspicious and now they have reason to detain you and likely will. ” where do you get that shit from? If the cip determines your silence is suspixuous…hes breaking the law which states that executing your right to silence CANNOT be deemed suspicious…the LAW states rhe exact OPPOSITE to what yoy daid. And furthermore…being “detained” isnt “subjective”.
    TECHNICALLY…what? They are NOT just another citizen…they are a part of a xorporation ON DUTY and do NOT adhere to the same rules. CAN YOU carry a gun Mr. CITIZEN?

    Look up R. vs Grant and be quiet

  140. Hes reading a CODE…not a LAW. Not an Act or Statute. Good try.. youre on the right path.
    And freedoms…rights…that are universal…ARE law.

  141. I have and posted it on youtube. They had no choice but to “let me go”.

    I have as many stories as you…probably more. And now… the story is different.
    Next time you “fit a description” you tell them you wanna SEE that APB and see the CPIC print out of this “suspects” description…thats your rightbunder th3 freedom of info act…but not til they hve provided you with a business card and 3 pieces of I.d. including photo. Otherwise say absolutely nothing.
    If I detailed all thats happened to me in the last year and what the results were…it would be clear that I am one of the few…maybe the only one here…who not only really knows what the fuck hes talking about…but implimented it in real life.
    If I didnt… I wouldnt have the head crowns direct number in my contacts…given to me by him the day they withdrew charges after I beat their ass in court.
    “Who is you?”?
    And yes…it was actually fun…not just talking DOWN to a crown…but talking DOWN to a judge and not only putting him in his place…making him look like a fool in the process.
    And yep… I got it all on audio too.
    So nice when I can back my shit up…with more than erroneous “opinion”.

  144. Shut up!…you dont know what you’re talking about. If you do…post a link supporting your comment…from a credible source like canlii. Or be quiet…Your best option

  145. Andd just what is “just cause’?
    And gimmie the legal definition…not what you “think” it is.

  146. No…sheeple dont have a problem with it.
    Oh sure its done to every race…disproportionately.
    Clearly most white people are totally ignorant…they dont even realize their benefits…its called white privilese…and its clearly obvious with law enforcement. Talk about not seeing the elephant holy! So many ignorant white people smh

    Dont worry after darkie will be all the “white trash”…cuz at the end of the day if you aint blue youre a suspect.
    The SS didnt stop with jews. Did they.

  149. Not if you really know your shit. You have the right to travel the queens land..license only if youre going commerce for the government

  150. You’ve just cited Wikipedia, my source is the criminal code of Canada and the Supreme Court of Canada. It depends on the kind of language they use, where they’re standing, if they’re obstructing you, why they’ve stopped you, etc. but the carding practice would generally not be a detention. You can learn more by reading R v Grant if you’re interested.

  152. You are most definitely a special kind of stupid!.. And, i say this with the utmost disrespect for your ignorance as i pertains to the point we are trying to prove here. No one is not saying, the Charter and Rights and Freedom is perfect and set in stones.

    However, we are saying that; Any one person however meek, strong minded or dumb founded, Should be able to move about freely without hindrance from an Officer of the Law. I would like to just walk down the street for no particular reason without having to talking to an Officer of the law without due cause. Do you understand what US Non-Ovines are saying?..

    I am not saying that Police Officers do not have a job to do. We, are saying that; as Law Enforcing Officers. They should follow the law and not go beyond it for egotistical purposes.

    If i do not wish to tell an Officer my name and home address. then, that’s my free will.. If, however, i did commit a crime or is under the suspicion of committing one. Obviously I can see things differently…

    SInce you are such a Sheep.. Let’s see what you’ll say when they stripe search you and give you a “Cavity” check without a warrant or Lube..

  153. Sir, I have been a Police officer for over 9years. So, in fact, I do know what Police officers do. ***wink wink*** I no way, shape or form did i ever say, a police stopping you for no reason accounts for Racism. Secondly, I am Educated. Maybe not as well as you are(LMAO). But, I do get by.

    Speaking from a person in the “Know”. You do not have to speak to a Police officer when you are stopped. Period!. They (we) can detain you if they have reason to believe you have committed a crime or you will. Now, to prove it 100% in court is a different story. But, then again, as Police Officers; We have people to speak for us and even tell us how to give our side of the story. Police Officers are perceived(i goggled the spelling of that word) to be honest individuals. I loved my Job. I sincerely do. But, like the Charter of Rights and Freedom. It has flaws. Not wanting to speak to an Officer doesn’t make you a criminal. Its called Freedom of Choice.

    Ps. If you are being detained. The Officer Must inform you as to his/her reason for detaining you. And, also, Not because officers take an Oath means they can’t and wont break it. When they(i say they because i am not really an officer. I lied. But, you can decided for yourself, Educated one) put on Uniforms. It doesn’t make them Super Heroes or anything like that.

    Hope you are having a most lovely and productive day.

  154. Cops are above the law.

    “There appeared to be on the part of certain police
    witnesses and certain police associations an almost Pavlovian reaction against
    a civilian agency (the SIU) investigating the conduct of police officers …
    and against the idea such an agency could conduct an investigation which could
    be fair to police officers,” the judge wrote.

    “This is particularly surprising when… in about 97% of the
    cases, the investigation ***exonerates the subject officer.”

    http://www.thestar.com/news/article/882189–are-these-cops-above-the-law

    ………………………………………..

    A Star investigation last year revealed more than 100 cases
    of police deception in courts in Ontario
    and across the country. Provincial Attorney General John Gerretsen moved
    swiftly, probed the problem and created a new policy requiring Crown attorneys
    to report cases where they believe police officers have lied under oath.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/03/26/toronto_police_chief_bill_blair_blasts_officers_for_unacceptable_behaviour.html

    ………………………………………………………

    I realized despite the new public face of the ‘Civilian
    Authority,’ it was still police investigating police. In the end, the police exonerated the police,
    then everyone patted themselves on the back for a job well done and another
    file closed.

    After an eight month process that was at times nonexistent
    and at other times exhausting, traumatic and triggering, I am left with two
    distinct impressions.

    The police still hold the thin blue line and will bend over
    backwards to protect their own.

    The criminalization of dissent continues unabated and
    remains the order of the day.

    http://rabble.ca/news/2013/04/thin-blue-line-and-criminalization-dissent

  155. Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither. ~
    Benjamin Franklin, 1706 – 1790

    Benjamin Franklin (17 January 1706 – 17 April 1790) was an
    American inventor, journalist, printer, diplomat, and statesman.

  156. ‘You Should’ve Stayed at Home’

    CBC The Fifth Estate:
    G20 The Untold Stories – 44 minutes

    Gillian Findlay presents a revealing new street-level
    perspective of what happened when thousands of police were deployed in downtown
    Toronto and instructed to do what was necessary to ensure the wall around the
    G20 Conference Centre was never breached. Exclusive eyewitness video obtained
    by the fifth estate brings to light startling images captured on cellphones and
    minicams by the innocent bystanders who found themselves on the wrong side of
    all that G20 “order.” In a rare television interview, Toronto Police
    Chief Bill Blair explains why police took the actions they did.

    On this edition of the fifth estate: the summit from the
    street, and the people who never dreamed it could happen to them. The stories
    you’ll hear will raise questions about what protest means in this country and
    what the limits to dissent have become.

    They were the most unlikely of troublemakers. There were
    thousands of ordinary citizens on the streets at Toronto G20 Summit marching
    peacefully until the police closed in and shut them down. Many had gone
    downtown simply to see what was going on, only to find themselves forcibly
    dragged away by police and locked up for hours in a makeshift detention center
    without timely access to lawyers or medical treatment.

    http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2010-2011/youshouldhavestayedathome/

  157. aright well I hope your a law student so you can clear this up for me. I get this from tons of experience with the police and reading up online on my rights and some laws to protect myself from them as a citizen. Im pretty sure theyre job and training with a gun allows them to carry one, similar to someone with a gun license, no? In a situation your silence is suspicious behavior and your being unco-operative and your body language is showing your trying to hide something and you look nervous. Silence alone… no, but part of it yes. These are all reasons, none of which have evidence because they are all subjective reasons as to why the officer decided it was right to detain you for further questioning. Like realistically because your silent hes taking further action but technically its for a list of reasons that make it ok.

    Being detained doesn’t need any probable cause right? As in like physical evidence. Just a reasonable suspicion like anything that they feel is reason enough to hold you to gather further information for a possible arrest. When I say technically I mean by the book this is what it says but in reality it won’t really happen. Like being silent, if you have EVER been in a situation where the police want answers to questions theyre asking and you just decide to go silent or tell them you have that right it turns the whole situation against you. So legally they can’t do that, we know this, we’re protected by that right… but they do. They are citizens because they are not above the law, sure they have different rules but nothing out of the ordinary, similar to any other job. But when they approach you to talk to you, just like another citizen you don’t have to talk to them, you might be required to give them basic information if they ask but you don’t have to stay any further. I don’t see your point though because r. vs grant just states that they can detain you for exactly what I said, some type of reason and the court will then decide if that was ok, those reasons are not out of a list it’s based on certain things that will make them decide if that was ok or not.

    But hey, obviously im the idiot so go ahead and explain this :) Id like to be educated. But seriously if im wrong point it out I too want to know that ive been misguided this whole time. Also if when im in a situation where the officer is trying to hold me and because of what you said he actually cant, what should I do to avoid being arrested?

  158. Jaz is right, this has nothing to do with detainment. Though this will help move things along, because cops will make you feel like you are being detained, just to power trip, and young people and others uneducated on the law will be scared and easy to push around.

  159. I’ve been pulled over in patrol areas 523,521,143 at least a few times a year and I’m white. Half the time I’m just walking to work, or walking home from work. One time I even got pulled over by my step father 2 feet away from my house on our way walking to the car. Bunch of bull if you ask me.

  162. Their job is to keep people safe, to give you the ability to be safe from unlawful seizure of property. i.e. being robbed. To keep you from being hurt by people who want to hurt you… and you want to make their jobs harder?

    You do realize that pissing them off only makes them less helpful, right? If enough people are stupid idiots at a concert I work I start thinking everyone I deal with is a stupid idiot. All it takes is 1 person to prove me wrong and it not only makes my day but makes me just that much more likely to be lenient.

    You want to make my job harder? I’ll throw you out, laugh when you tell me you have a right to be there and tell you to read the fineprint and close the door on you.

    Cops do the same stuff. Go ahead, try being nice to a cop sometime… Odds are you’ll confuse the hell out of them just by being nice for a change.

    Or try being a complete idiot and watch as they treat you like exactly that.

    Then again odds are you’ll end up with a cop you think is actually good that is actually a lazy idiot himself that doesn’t want to do the actual paperwork… Thus the cycle of idiocy continues.

    Don’t get me wrong, there are useless, corrupt, asshole cops out there. But look around at your job, if you don’t see anyone who fits that description then either you’re beating the odds… or it’s you.

  163. too many times police abuse their authorities and conduct random stops…..what i like to confirm is, this news right here doesn’t apply to markham(york region) am i correct ?

  164. their job won’t be any harder if they actually stick to it and stop harassing people

  166. First off, never said I don’t like police officers, many are just doing their jobs and help keep me and countless others safe. I dislike being treated differently based on my skin colour (which is not part of their jobs).

    Example of abuse of power:
    Family friend of mine has been questioned by police officers two times (that I know of) while standing in front of his house. The questions have gone along the lines of, “why are you standing in front of this house sir? Do you have a reason to be here? Who’s house is this? Can you prove that this is your residence?” His house happens to be in one of the affluent neighbourhoods of our city and the reason he is being questioned is because of his race. That is the reason why I have a problem with police officers abusing their power and I am happy this is being addressed.

  167. When’s the last time a cop was shot protecting somebody?
    And i’m not talking about raiding some place or going to bust somebody over a statute. I mean, actually trying to help somebody in trouble.
    Compare the numbers to the times that an innocent person has been shot by police.

  168. Maybe you should study English instead. Your ignorance of the proper use of grammar invalidates your argument long before the subject matter of your post. I read what you have written and think you to be of lower intelligence than the average person in Toronto.

  169. FROM NOW ON, I WILL NEVER TALK TO ANYONE, EVEN SMALL CHILDREN WHO SAY HI. THIS IS THE MOST STUPID PIECE OF POLITICAL GARBAGE I’VE EVER HEARD.

  170. DON’T TALK TO ANYONE, DON’T PULL ANYONE OVER, DON’T ARREST ANYONE, DON’T INVESTIGATE ANYTHING OR ANYONE F.I.D.O. LET CRIME GO THROUGH THE ROOF F.T.D. AND STILL GET PAID!!

  171. Human rights do not exist in detention centres, three people to a two bed cell…. Since when was the floor an option for such a civilized country.

  172. If you’re going to invoke history, you might as well know what you’re
    talking about. Nazi Germany sent Jews to the concentration camps they built in Poland after they invaded Poland. There were no Polish camps. Polish people fought against Nazi Germany. They also helped people escape the German camps.

  174. Just watch police caught on you tube beating black kids for using there rights…about time the real law makers step in on all the civil rights violation……when rude cops stick there noses into people business, we whites have been telling them to bugger off, but when black stood up, they were lamb blasted.

  175. Oh, it’s totally unconstitutional. The CCLA has been saying this many times. But here’s the thing about unconstitutional activities by the government: until they’re actually ruled unconstitutional by the court… there’s nothing to stop them from violating the constitution.

  178. Both Indians and Chinese get pulled over and stopped less than whites, so it really has nothing to do with race.

  179. FOLKS FOLKS please lets get something straightened out here. As was said by a great comedian “George Carlin” and it is relevant to canada. We don’t have “rights” we have “privileges”, rights cannot be taken away. Privileges however can be removed at any time. Take a long hard and deep look into what I am saying…IT IS TRUE!

  180. The majority of people in Toronto are white. That’s just a fact. 50.4% according to 2011 stats.

    The issue is, whether you have something to hide or not, that the overwhelming majority of these incidents occurred with a minority of the population.

  181. Whether it’s specifically against the charter or not, who I am and where I’m going is nobody’s business but my own. IF, and only if, the police are conducting a specific investigation and they have reasonable grounds to believe I was either involved or a witness, they have no business whatsoever asking me anything.

  182. I stay out of their business and they stay out of mine. It’s a good relationship I have with the Toronto Police. Plan to keep it that way.

  183. “Toronto Police Services Board approved a long-awaited new policy that forbids police officers from questioning civilians for no clear reason—which, yes, is something police officers were able to do. If you didn’t know that already, you’re statistically very likely to be a white person. That was the problem.”

    No, they were not allowed to do this. This may have been a standard practice permitted by the Toronto Police Service, but it was still illegal under the charter. Just because the police have a standard practice of doing something does not mean they are doing it legally. Anyone “victim” of this always had the right to bring it before the courts and sue the City of Toronto, the Police Service, and if the officer knew he was violating your rights and acting in bad faith, sue the individual officer.

  184. This means that each section within the Charter applies to the government’s treatment of Canadian citizens. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms was intended to limit government control over the basic rights and fundamental freedoms that we deem owed to every citizen of this country. An individual person/business cannot violate your Charter Rights, that is not what it was created for; any government institution/body, however, can.

  186. I am not stating that our rights did not exist before the Charter. I am expanding upon your post for anyone who may not have understood what you were explaining, through your quotation of section 32. It’s important for everyone living in Canada to properly and fully understand their rights and freedoms; specifically, when they do and do not apply.

  188. 1. I was speaking about how a person cannot infringe upon your rights. If you were to arbitrarily detain me (i.e. stop me for a conversation I did not want to have, with no cause), I cannot say that you in any way violated my rights. I MAY have cause to sue you in civil court; however, depending upon the severity and damages incurred (probably not much in this example, haha!). On the other hand, if a police officer were to do the exact same thing they would be violating my rights, simply because they are a government employee.

    2. Your ‘rights’ do not always apply. Please carefully read section 1 of the Charter. This section, in very confusing language, expresses that all rights and freedoms set out in the Charter may be revoked at any time, if there is reason to do so (i.e. for the greater good). The ‘reasons’ to violate your rights are up to the court to decide.
    EXAMPLE: Ride programs. The officer has no reason to stop you. This was brought up in court multiple times. The courts deemed that the ride program WAS arbitrary detainment; however, it was for the greater good of society and, therefore, an acceptable violation of the charter.

    I’m not saying it’s good, I’m not saying it’s bad, it just is.

  189. What a pile of BS! All this is politically correct nonsense is going to do is make the streets unsafe. The ability to question has allowed officers in the past to prevent crimes from occurring through the proactive nature of random questioning. If you have nothing to hide, why be offended by it??? A disproportionate number of non-whites are involved in crime in this city. Why don’t they fix their own community’s problems before throwing out accusations of racial profiling etc. And I say their own community, because that is what they have been encouraged to do in this country, segregate themselves and ghettoize themselves with their own, instead of assimilating and being part of one community. This city is a blundering mess with its ghettoization, which is down the road going to cause many many more problems. And by the way, before you left wing social engineers throw your racist comments and accuse me of being a racist white male of privilege, be it known that I am not white!

  190. works well my ass.. theyll just ignore you and if you keep asking theyll just hit you with your under investigation, and if you try to say if im not being detained can i leave and try to walk away they will either tackle you or forcibly make you stay

  191. your probably indian or something, no cop is going to stop a indian based on “racial profiling” i dont think you fit in the same category you are trying to relate and speak from lol

  192. I’ve never been carded (white bread, middle class, middle age) but I have some objections to the practice. First is why is a person being questioned. Second relates to the issues being raised in the Star vis-a-vis non-conviction records. Someone does a background check and finds that an individual is “known to police” and has had “several contacts with police”. This could just be several carding occurrences. And I can think of several negative interpretations and no positive ones regarding that on a background check. Lost job opportunities, problems visiting U.S., whatever. You don’t need anything to hide for this to have a negative impact.

  194. Racist no. Fascist? Absolutely. You may be cool with the Gestapo tactics but the rest of us wish to live in a free democracy, not a police state. The research is there if you’d bother to look for it: the tendency for racial groups to commit crime is the same. How they are policed, however, are not by any stretch. Bet you think Rob Ford is a great mayor too. Keep sipping your kool aide wise guy.

  195. Guest.. whoever you are. That is one of the most ill informed responses I have ever read. By the way I am a Lawyer that has practiced in the area of Criminal Law both locally and internationaly. This has everything to do with your charter rights. Go educate yourself before pontificating about something you are clearly under informed about.

  196. Convenience store clerk, cab driver, bus driver—basically anyone who works at night has a more dangerous job than a police officer in Toronto.

  197. And sometimes if you don’t want to tell a police officer who you are and where you live they’ll be kind enough to give you a nice ride to Cherry Beach just for fun.

  198. Although if you choose to take this route, it’s advisable only to do it when there are lots of witnesses around. If it’s just the cops and you, it’s probably a good idea to do whatever they say.

  199. None of this has anything to do with whether or not they should be stopping people at random and taking down their information. Everything you said about how people should treat cops would also apply to the Gestapo— “Just do what they say and you won’t get hurt”. That’s not really a glowing endorsement of the service they provide.

  200. thats not true, now ur just assuming that majoriy happen to minority. i to have been approached by cops for no reason at all and im white. its happened to a lot of “white” ppl. it shouldnt matter if ur white black brown purple blue it doesnt matter. cops have no right to approach u for no reason. if they have a reason they should tell u. nobody is above the law or ppls freedom. dont care who u r. police officers job is to keep me safe not to question me if im walking to the corner store

  202. I tried walking away and i was handcuffed and taken to the police station, detained for 4 hours while supposedly being investigated because they said i fit the description of a suspect they were looking for!!! here is the aparent suspect description!!
    JAMACIAN
    DARK SKIN
    BLACK MALE
    6 FEET TALL
    AFRO
    MULTIPLE TATTOOS
    190 POUNDS TO 200 POUNDS LAST SEEN FLEEING NORTH ON KIPLING NORTH OF ALBION ROAD
    MY DESCRIPTION;
    NOVA SCOTIAN
    BROWN SKINNED
    BLACK MALE
    5 FOOT 5
    SHORT HAIR
    NO TATTOOS
    145 POUNDS
    KIPLING AND REXDALE WAITING FOR THE BUS TO GO SOUTH
    HOW DO I FIT THE SUSPECT DESCRIPTION? I COMPLAINED AFTER I WAS RELEASED WITHOUT ANY CHARGES AND 2 DAYS LATER THE SAME 2 OFFICERS SHOWED UP AT MY HOME AND ARRESTED AND CHARGED ME WITH ASSAULT ON ONE OF THE POLICE OFFICERS SO ANYONE SAYING THEY CAN SIMPLY WALK AWAY!!! BE PREPARED FOR THE AFTERMATH!!!!

  203. They are very slick with their wording…
    Dirtbags.
    Pervioisly they were “allowed” …yeah… allowed to ASK. That sure doesnt mean you were obliged to ANSWER.

    Sure… they were “able” to question people… that doesn’t mean they were LEGALLY “ALLOWED” to. I’m able, for example, to drive a car… doesnt mean I am ALLOWED to. There is NO LAW stating that police are ALLOWED to question you for no reason OR stop you for the purpose of “carding”.

    Toronto police dont make the law. They are finally just choosing to follow it

  205. Know the law…and record them! A suspect fitting your description huh? Demand to SEE THAT!
    If they are telling the truth there will be a bulletin on their CPIC computers. Immediately request under the freedom of information act to see that bulletin. By law they MUST comply.
    Keep a cell with video record capabilities. If you have an android…get an app like kik so your videos can be quicky streamed to facebook or youtube. Dont hide that youre recording either.
    Demand I.d. photo id. Tell them you do not contract with unknown people.
    Never give yours… it cant prove youre innocent. Tell them any info they want they can get from a lawyer… find one in the yellow pages that takes 24 hour calls and keep that number handy. Cal thatblawyer on speaker phone the sexond they persist.
    Ask them why you are being detained…and who is the harmed party.
    Never answer questions, only ask them.
    And never say you understand anything.

    Lastly…use their own tactics…like the right use of open ended questions and an assumptive close. Say “why am I being detained”…not “are you detaining me”…get them to say they arent detaining you then say “oh good so Im free to go”…a “question” you “ask” with no raise in your voice…like its a statement of fact….not “am I free to go?”.
    They must state why. Same as if they arrest you. And if they do… refuse to UNDERSTAND your rights…becausw you do not understand the charge or why goure being charged… esp if… as yiu show above…that you dont match their so called suspect.

    You got burned because you werent prepared and you dont know the law.
    Change these things or risk having it happen again!

  206. Did you copy and paste that comment?
    Carding…is not a cops job!
    The fact that the city is a mosaic is irrelevant, as evidenced by the fact rhat the OP clearly comments about “disproportionate” Carding.

    You sound like youre…a…sheeple

  207. Just because you, a white person, have also been stopped, does not mean that people of colour have not been disproportionately subjected to this practice. Numerous studies have shown that they have been. I agree, no one should be subjected to this treatment, but that doesn’t change the fact that non-white people are more often subjected to this treatment.

  208. Just because you are brown and feel a particular way about the police and their practices, does not mean ALL people of colour (or all people for that matter) should feel that way. And yes, you are telling people how to feel/how not to feel when you say they should not be offended, etc.
    You are also conflating any criticism of specific police practices and patterns of behaviour with a hatred for all police. Perhaps you should read other people’s comments more carefully before responding.

    Lastly, I too am a brown person and I do not feel that gives me the right to speak as a representative for all brown people and certainly not all people of colour. Various people of colour are racialized in different ways. Perhaps you are the one who should go and educate yourself.

  209. The police can hold ANYONE on just a little bit of suspicion for 24 hours in canada. If they find nothing they release the person in 24 hours. It happens alot to EVERY RACE.

  210. Police here dont even carry guns. In other nations they go up and hit people for no reason with batts like in pakistan etc! What are u talking about!

  211. In ottawa the worst areas for gangs, drugs and robberies in south keys and herongate- both very black areas. Are we suppose to pretend ?

  213. I dread readibg the comments here because, not surprisingly, there are a bunch of privileged, arrogant, uninformed replies that make negative assumptions about people of colour, particularly those being stopped by the police.

    Thankfully, there are also some thoughtful replies by those who have experienced this directly and others who are empathetic to the psychological warfare brought upon those who are consistently targeted and racially profiled by the cops.

    As a 32 year old black woman (not yet a parent), this makes me feel relieved for my future children, and the nephews I have now. It’s not the only answer to racial profiling, but it seems like a step in the right direction.

  214. Toronto is not majority brown or black. Check Wikipedia or another source. The city is still about 60% white.

  215. Its not about having something to hide at all. It’s about being targeted – and this is my experience talking with members of my family and friends who are black males- by the cops, security guards, store clerks etc. starting around ~the age of 10 for no other reason other than race.

    This type of targeting does psychological damage to our communities . For more info regarding that, please take some time to Google “psychological effects of racial profiling.” One of the first links is to the Ontario Human Rights Commission.

  216. Your comment is ideal, but not realistic. It’s not about complancey, it’s about avoiding conflict. Standing up for your rights sounds all well and good, but when you are being stopped constantly, your aim becomes avoiding getting beat up by the police for “talking back” or it could just be that your sim is to get to school or work or whereever snd cooperating means you can escape the interaction without too much interruption to your day. Also a lot of this street harassment starts with kids as young as ten, so yeah…so it’s fair to say that some kids aren’t aware that they can assert their rights when speaking to intimidating cops with guns.

  217. We don’t have more people of colour than white here. Maybe on the subway or your job or school but Toronto is still ~60% white. Stop making up stats to support your argument.

  219. Joe, the point is the stops are DISPROPORTIONATE considering the number of minorities versus non visible minorities. Key word is disproportionate. If you don’t understand that (which is a KEY reason why this law was introduced), then sit back and read and stop replying.

    Also, why is “white” in quotations? Lol

    Also, I wasn’t aware that purple people existed.

  220. People of the same race as their “suspects” are 100% capable of racial profiling as well. In fact, I would say a lot of the times black cops tend to go harder on black youth.

  221. At a special meeting on Thursday, the Toronto Police Services Board approved a long-awaited new policy that forbids police officers from questioning civilians for no clear reason—which, yes, is something police officers were able to do. If you didn’t know that already, you’re statistically very likely to be a white person. That was the problem.

    No.. that was not the problem. That would be a problem hiding another problem. They may have been able to do it, though it was never lawful for them to do so. Law is not established by the policies set by a police board, and the fact that they used to do this thing, and now are told they cannot, is not a matter of anything except the police board FINALLY establishing policies that follow the Law. If they were ‘allowed’ it was not by the Law, but by those who set policies that failed to follow the Law.

    We have the absolute right at Law to refuse intercourse with a peace officer who has not observed a breach of the peace, and who is not acting on an actual complaint of a criminal action.

    If someone calls you a horse, stand like a man before they go shopping for a saddle.

  222. I got carded because my custom assembled downhill mountain worth over 5 grands was reported “stolen” -_- yes thanks. I call in the supervisor and both officer were release from their point supervisor apologized. bla bla bla… my buddy in the other hands, who was white they did not even question him about his 3 thousand dollar bike. But hey what can you do.

  227. was outta town for a few months and was randomly stopped about five times by O.P.P officers claiming that they wanted to a routine ceck and when i began questioning them about them about why they where stopping me and informing them that this is completely illegal i was then informed by the cops that there was some property damaged and they where looking for the suspect… this is complete bullshit as we all know and even if this law passes that cops can only stop you for a reason they will just make one up cops are fucked….. bunch of losers that had no friends there whole lifes and now they have a gun attached to there hip so they thin kthey can fuck with everyone, can anyone say POWER TRIP!!!!!

  228. they don’t care about the laws they write, we just have to follow them, they do not

  229. Actually truth is right. Driving on a public highway or road you can be stopped to check for valid license and insurance / registration. If you do not have your actual license with you the minimum u must provide is your name and address and it can be checked that way. Driving a car requires a license & insurance while walking on the street does not. Its been through the courts already long ago and I would not want someone to be under the impression they cannot be stopped to check for valid license and registration while driving a vehicle. Trust me you are not free to go until they confirm you have a valid license so i would not attempt this.

  232. Being questioned is not the same as unreasonable search/ seizure, and being arbitrarily detained or imprisoned. The last 2 things means no cops can search you without a warrant and that you can’t be arrested without a reason.

    Carding is just general questioning. For example, you’re at a cafe, and the cop comes to you and has a conversation with you, just to find out if you saw an event that maybe happened across the street or if he thinks you look familiar, it could be anything from suspect to witness info. It’s just collecting information in general.

    The main reason why they stopped this program is because they found out that more non-white people are being questioned versus a good mix of both. they don’t want to seem racist. Hence their own Police board changed it.

  235. Probably the wort thing to do!!! ” Immediately request under the freedom of information act to see that bulletin” You are a kid, there are no such thing to obtain a buletin from CPIC. This law was designed to obtain your personal information from the gov… Amazing how people think they know shit!!

  236. You are a kid who give himself importance!! what you say is 99% wrong…. good luck!

  239. What are you talking about is the real question. Why are you bringing up police in Pakistan when we are talking about Toronto police.

  240. Not true. It happens all over canada, particularly in small towns where the rcmp are in charge and ‘people from away’ are usually suspects. No blacks in these towns, its whites from out of town.

  241. The real racists are the people killing everyone in the middle east who is not ‘one of them’

  242. No I am not. I cant be racist in my own nation where my family has lived for 400 years. People in the middle east nations are who are called Moslem extremists and who are slaughtering half the middle east off.

  245. Ho w offended would you be if you had to move alove hundreds of miles and not get a job in your country because a minority who just landed has to get one.

  247. The problem with alot of 3rd world people is they already come with psychological damage….

  248. I know a black guy whose been in canada 10 years. He came to N.B. He was treated great there and its 97% white. He then moved to ottawa and is working in a mall. He told me he hates it here I said why? He said the blacks are picking fights and there are alot of gangs here. I said our city has no gangs. He said yes I was treated better in your city. So hes going back.

  249. I can only come to one conclusion. THere are more minority cops now than 20 years ago in toronto. So if more miniroties are being stopped- its because they are involved in more crime and or the police who is not white is more racist than the white cops are.

  253. I’m guessing intelligence isn’t an inherent trait in your family because if you really couldn’t see the obvious sarcasm in that one statement, based on the whole thread, than you my dear friend are the one short of brain cells. It’s also “which grade did you complete?”, not “go to”… genius.

  255. You can tell you are not english first, as there is more than one way to say the above and that is correct!

  256. The top most corrupt nations in the world for police are: Russia, Burma, Haiti, Mexico, Kenya, Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan, Sudan. Europe and N. America are not even on this list.

  258. LOL you are such a simpleton. you don’t “go” to a grade, you ‘go’ to school. You ‘complete” a grade. You can tell grammar isn’t your strong suit. Yes, there is more than one way but yours isn’t one of them, dumb ass.

  260. LOL! If one took an ESL class their speaking would improve passed the level of a retarded 5 year old. Thus, your statement makes no sense whatsoever. You should be the one taking an ESL course so you can speak better than a retarded 5 year old. (The correct way of saying what you were trying to say). :)

  261. Gee I guessed that right away! You carry your Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms with you! Why is that? Do you think you should have more rights than someone here a few centuries?

  265. When canada lets anything that crawls into our country, this is the type of city that we get.

  266. I’m not entirely sure what you meant to say here, the first sentence is a bit unclear… Also the comment doesn’t seem to be related at all to the argument. Lastly, not sure if you realize this but a lot of minorities that move to Canada can not get jobs within the city or can not get accredited in their original profession. This is a huge problem with the current immigration practices in the country currently so if I am reading your comment correctly, I would suggest you double check your facts as well.

  267. Well let see people called locals, some who have been here 400 years, also cannot find work with continuous dumping of people from around the world, it only makes things worse. Ontario lost thousands of jobs in the past 5 years and what makes you thinki you deserve a govt job when you are not from here. Govt jobs are for locals.

  268. Your the one who should so your research. Immigrants should not be coming in a global recession. Ontario lost thousands of jobs in the past 5 years. I would not expect to move to another nation and demand that I have a good job there when its not my country. There are thousands of people here for centuries out of work too, in fact 1 million since 2008 lost their jobs.

  269. Well, well, well. So whats the catch officer? Its almost too good to be true after all the shit these pigs have done these past years. I have yet to meet one decent officer on patrol. But what about the license plate scanner? I guess they dont have to card a driver anymore if it just pops up on their screen! So its give and take huh fucking pigs are way too slick.

  270. Who are the brown people italiens with a summer tan, french with a summer tan, indians from india, half blacks!

  272. #1: We should all have equal rights, not more, not less. #2: Except for the aboriginals we were all immigrants at one point in history or another. #3: If you don’t intend to respond to the issues that I’m presenting please choose another person to reply to on this thread as I don’t wish to my time reading your nonsense…

  273. This is not proper english. You are not north american culture, we are the ones who own this country and built it to what it is today. I would bet whatever nation you or your parents are from is a third world dump where no one has rights.

  274. By civilized I am talking we live in the civilized part of the world in a civilized country-called the west!

  275. And how would you know this! Is someone counting! What about whites who are mixed native and look white! There are thousands like this in canada! Stop judging by color! People in white towns that had a poor section-the exact same thing happens to them and they are white in poor areas riddled with drugs and poverty!

  276. If you move out to alberta to any small town and live there-you are watched and suspected all the time because you are an outsider. Any problem arises they ask the outsiders first. Most of the ‘outsiders’ are whites from other parts of canada.

  279. Apparently homeless people do not have human rights either, or they would not be freezing to death on our streets because the shelters are all full due to all the illegals living in them.

  281. I know a white guy who was falsely arrested in a small town in alberta (he was not f rom that town). They held him for 24 hrs and one officer kicked him very hard with steel boots to his head and face. They had no charges and released him in the morning. He lost 5 days at his new job in this new town which he had to move to because the place we are from there is no work called new brunswick.

  285. the charter of rights and freedoms does not apply to you read the document it applies to federal provincial and territorial governments and their legislators it does not apply to private individuals and business`s…………Read section 32 application of the Charter its spelled out right there then go read the 1960 bill of rights it applies to YOU and is still in effect. What is nice to know is that it is the supreme law in all of canada (section 52) yet does not apply to YOU .; That in itself should have you asking questions like “If the supreme law does not apply ,How can ANY inferior one apply?”

  286. you failed to mention that if you are detained for any reason you do not have to supply any information in regards to who you are where you live or what your date of birth is. Section 50 of the Canada Evidence Act and that you are providing evidence to incriminate ones self by doing so

  287. Jane your the relative of an immigrant who at one point assisted in the theft of a land that never belonged to them

  288. sent they went voluntarily and once there they agreed to kill fellow jews . The germans told the jews that if they killed fellow jews they would live…………problem is once they became to weak to do it the next6 jew killed them ……….Jews did the most killing in russia they killed millions and funny i don`t remember any gov`ts saying that was bad ………………millions more natives in both North and south America were killed by the European nations then the jews killed during WW2 and no one mentions that and whats really funny is israel behaves like the nazi`s today and treats the palestinians like the jews were treated during ww2 .the only difference is that the jews were passive in WW2 the palestinians fight back and for doing so they are called terrorists

  289. You should learn canadian history. Natives and whites lived together and worked together. Natives were immigrants too at one point. This land is now being colonized by 3rd world people.

  290. We don’t live in a country called the west that is for starters. Secondly my opinion of a civilized country is a lot different then your’s.

  291. If your 3rd world, your opinion of civilized certainly would be very different than mine! Mr. fake english name!

  295. Arrested and detained = once the handcuffs are placed on your arms, period. I used to work for the police.

  296. Toronto has tons of gangs, I heard 150 gangs. What are you talking about. New York is much safer than toronto because New York is under a conservative government who charges criminals, unlike the liberals who let them roam around free!

  297. No. What you said was “a country called the west” which is incorrect. It’s called Canada

  298. No I do not, in fact I’ve lived a very privileged life and am doing quite well. Thanks for asking!

  299. ahh i don#t think so they need facts and or evidence and no one has to give them any info read section 50 of the Canada evidence act

  300. Jane are you a teacher is he being graded and do you plan on holding him back if so next time inform him Jane so sorry to have ruined your reading experience

  302. we are not civilized are you nuts we are slaves happy to just exist we are controlled by words and indoctrinated to believe one lie after an other Henry Ford stated that if you sheep ever figured out how the banking industry works you would hang them in the streets yet all of you hand over ID to get a bank account when the bank act has no ID requirements to open a bank account

  303. Canada is a pc of paper thats it canada is not a nation its a corporation acting as a nation there are no borders just people telling you there are so they can control you and there you have nations are based on controlling the population its no different then cattle on a farm the pen keeps the cattle from running away and you Gov#t uses imaginary lines to keep you in check and then use words to control you and you love it and boast about what a great slave owner you have ……don#t believe me go read the Control ownership and determination act read the definitions and then scroll to the tables at the end to find out what your worth is to your owner

  304. did you read that or did you actually base what you say on facts did you ever read the inside cover of your passport

  305. the reply to the officers is always a question `Do I have a statutory obligation to answer those questions`or `What is the nature of your investigation

  307. are you implying that refusing to answer police questions means that one has something to hide OH please answer this question so i can iron the creases out of your ass

  309. they did till greedy phoquing white people wanted it for them selves and you know shit about history this land was colonized by natives they were herded onto little parcels of land originally reffered to as prisoner of war camps and later changed to reservations and just to point out how phoquing stupid you are the middle class is being squeezed you phoquing Gov#t calls your benefits a social contract that they alter at phoquing will and most people are to stupid to understand what a contract is and it only exists if both sides get EQUAL CONSIDERATION in any changes made to it .So brain fart what consideration were you given when they altered the gst and pst and changed it to the «««««««HST none did you give them consent to do so of course you did dummy you signed the benefit transition cheque they issued and cashed it offering up implied consent DUHHHH

    by the way let me be the first to welcome you to the reservation we are all on it now the natives have nothing left to steal so its your turn enjoy the ride

  310. LOL Just a hint I am from Germany was born there they had camps in Germany as well My mother worked in them as cleaning staff

  313. did you not realize that when the treaties were signed the land north and west of Upper canada and lower canada was native land That the king of england then granted a Charter to the Hudson’s bay Company giving it a large swath of native land allowing them to create laws to govern it and forcing the natives to trade with it and then forcing the settlers to purchase those native goods from them .there by making it illegal to trade directly with a native .That indian land was given to those willing to move west and clear the land with out indian consent see the natives got phoqued over through out history and now because they have certain rights like being a native and carrying an indian status card they no longer have to pay tax on goods and services but what happens if they loose the card does that mean they are no longer a native IF you notice that a corporation was granted a charter and we have the Charter of rights and freedoms need more proof Canada is a corporation

  316. Canada was acadian- which included all one area to include new brunswick, nova scotia and Prince Edward Island. The nation was called ACADIA. The rest of canada did not exist and was trees.

  317. so your saying that acadia predates the natives is that correct correct . And what the phoque does this have to do with Upper and lower Canada and the signing of treaties with natives

  318. if you allow your rights to be violated and do nothing then guess what your as smart as a bag of hammers
    and deserve no rights

  319. that the govt doing that not the people. That was all in trudeau’s plan to wipe out english canada!

  320. well as a law student your a dumb ass. My dad w ho was a lawyer would of hung u by the scruf of your neck for that comment!

  322. Thats because their knowledge and education is substandard and so is their english. You therefore would fit right in.

  324. No, other natives lived in other parts of canada. Ontario was not yet a province when canada was called acadia. Why dont u google it and see for yourself.

  327. This message is to all people on here complaining aobut minor things that dont really matter. We are about to be entered into WW3, its changing almost by the hour. THOUSANDS of people are being slaughtered in more than one country who are all innocent people due to a fascist group called ISIS who are taking us back to medieval times and are the new neo-nazis. I have heard they want to take over the world and plan to invade america by 2016. So please redirect your focus-we have to focus on saving this world and the good people in it. Thanks

  328. For once I agree with you… to a degree. But keep in mind that it is necessary to fix the problems in our country as well.

  330. Heres a suggestion. If your black and feel you are being picked on alot, move to a nice friendly, safe white town, which has a much lower rate of crime and no gangs. Problem solved!

  331. so there were no natives in Acadia then just other parts of Turtle Island….Did Acadia ever negotiate treaty with the natives, where did I mention Ontario. Ontario doesn`t come into existence for many years first there was Acadia a colony of New France till the British kicked the french`s butt then we have whats called Lower and Upper Canada created by the Constitutional Act of 1791 Control of all of Canada passed from France to Great Britain in 1763 when the Treaty of Paris ended the Seven Years’ War in America.

  333. where did i state i was a law student you are assuming facts not in evidence .If you dad was a lawyer then he is one step above a phoquing snake

  334. did you know that during the 1600`s lawyers were referred to as Grammarians and were exiled from society because they wanted to use words to control it ………………..they worked their way back into it and now they run for public office to pass laws so it will always be protected ………….they will one day all decorate trees

  336. The “west” is not a country you moron, Canada is a county. Jane, I’m going to ask you one more time, please shut up.

  340. Isis were in fact created by the western counties they were in Libya under the name freedom fighters they were in Syria and the western countries could not assist them with air support due to Russia and China`s veto of such in the UN security council vote now you claim they want to attack the west . I have already suggested they start with congress Parliament the White house Obama and Harper telling them most iof us would cheer them on by doing so

  343. you are no different then any other ignorant fool that believes the history they have been taught

  351. Because there are stats and studies on it???? Google it. And we are talking about Toronto and Toronto Police, not the rest of Canada. What do other small hicktowns have to do with this discussion? You’re so ridiculous.

  352. yeah except for the 3.5 million people that live here and the other 1-2 million that commute here for work.

  354. We live in ‘the West”. I live in Canada and my country is in the West and is a Western nation. one of the G7.

  355. See I am from the east dear. What I would advise for you is to leave toronto the shithole, you are being pigeoned holed because of all the bad blacks there. I bet you had no problems in N.S. did you? I met a black guy who came from some country and he lived in N.B. and loved it there and he moved to ottawa and black guys are picking on him all the time he hates it here. He was treated better in N.B. Do you realize Toronto has over 200 gangs??

  357. How would they remember! They were not alive then. Whites were colonized for 300 years long before blacks, from 1500-1800, called the Barary coast, by Muslim pirates.

  369. 2.8 million, actually. And Ontario is huge (land mass-wise) and comprised of few other other mid-sized cities and bunch of small towns and hamlets.

  372. All of canada is equal by the way, no group is no more important. I know you think you live in a fairytale land where everything is perfect and handed to you when you cry.

  373. If there werent so many illegals floating around, who half are criminals in their foreign lands, this would not be happening…did anyone ever consider this?

  375. Any race Yall just pull up.your.fucking.pants.and dress casual… you wont get pulled iver u dumb fucks…. and did you fucking.know.your a.queer fuck.bevause.in.jail thats where.it was.found to show.other inmates ur.available… fucking talking.abt law… bunch of queers. Yall go to.jail.in and.out cause thats.where u belong thats any race… u look and act the way u are causing indecency to.ithers in public…do your gay shit at home or in.the stairs where u.fucking do drugs and sell guns and smoke weed and say u run da.block meanwhile ur.on fuckin welfar on my tax miney …u dunt run shit …u.run and will die.in this.block cause.Igo.ti.work and pay my taxes to.keep u in the rathole where yall belong.

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