“I wonder if I’m asking for enough”: Toronto Police Association president Clayton Campbell on the service’s $46-million budget hike

As police union boss, you represent 8,000 uniformed and civilian members. You campaigned as No More Mr. Nice Guy. Why was that necessary? I’m not afraid to speak up. Politicians tend to support police when it’s convenient. There are councillors who voted to defund us in 2020 who now support a larger budget because public sentiment has shifted. I tell the truth, and if it hurts, fine by me.

You have the floor. Toronto’s biggest challenge right now is response times. Recent 911 callers have been left on hold between eight and 12 minutes. Average answer times were 28 seconds pre-2022. We need more dispatchers and more officers. So when I argue for a modest budget increase, it’s because the data supports it.

You’re asking for a $46-million hike. You consider that modest? I understand the sticker shock, but it’s only a 3.9 per cent increase from 2024. Peel is asking for 21.3 per cent. York had 7.7 per cent approved; Durham got 16.9 per cent. If anything, I wonder if I’m asking for enough. Our police rank fourth in Ontario for pay, and that’s not right. I think a Toronto officer should be the highest paid in the province. Related: Policing expert Robyn Maynard on how defunding would work in practice

Are you worried about pissing off your fellow cops outside the city? I’m worried about our ability to retain officers. We had 211 members resign from the service last year. More members are quitting than retiring. I grew up in Powassan, near North Bay, so I have a lot of respect for the OPP—my great-uncle was chief there. But an officer in Powassan shouldn’t make more than one in Toronto.

Because of the city’s cost of living? That plays a part. But it’s really about the stress of the job. In terms of response times, we’re now around 18 minutes for robberies and shootings. Our officers go from call to call with no breaks. They’re burnt out. Toronto currently has 171 officers for every 100,000 people in the city. In 2010, the cop-to-pop ratio was 208. Also, Taylor Swift doesn’t show up in Powassan with 500,000 tourists. Other cities don’t host Pride or Cari­bana. These events require resources.

The argument for more money also rests on the contention that violent crimes are up. But Canada’s Crime Severity Index suggests that Toronto is one of the country’s safest cities. Please explain. The index reflects data for 2023, so it’s dated. Last year, Toronto had a 36 per cent increase in shootings and a 56 per cent increase in gun-related homicides. Robberies and sexual assaults are also up.

Related: “This program is not anti-police”—A member of the Toronto Community Crisis Service explains what it actually is

Your critics say systemic issues are better tackled through programs that address poverty, addiction and other stressors. Do you agree? It’s not a choice between social programs or policing. The city needs both. When a 14-year-old takes part in a shooting, it’s evidence of several failures. But it’s police who show up to the crime scene. My wife, Julie, who’s been a Toronto cop for 23 years, worked in child exploitation units where her team couldn’t keep up with cases due to underfunding.

What are you doing to address racism within the force? We need a service that looks like Toronto. We’ve made a lot of progress. Go to a parade and you’ll see officers of every race, gender and religion. But we still have work to do. There are bad apples. You saw that with the murder of George Floyd. It happened in another country and had nothing to do with us, but it had a huge impact on Toronto.

I’m not sure it had nothing to do with policing here. That’s fair, and I agree. But it brought on a hiring freeze in Toronto, influenced by a small number of special interest groups.

Related: Brute Force—Discrimination, harassment and abuse inside the Toronto Police Service

One of those groups is BLM, whose members, according to the Toronto police’s own statistics, are at a higher risk of facing police violence. Don’t they have a point? Using force is truly a last resort. We’re very focused on de-escalation training. The incident with former constable James Forcillo and Sammy Yatim in 2013 is a real-life example. When something like that happens, our officers train to that specific scenario.

Policing runs in your family: your great-uncle, your father and your two brothers. Was the force always your destiny? I went to U of T for biology. I love anthropology, archaeology, evolution. But I made the decision to leave academia for the force, with no regrets. As my TPA predecessor, Jon Reid, used to say, “Policing is a front row seat to life.”

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.