The killing of Sammy Yatim
The death of Sammy Yatim unleashed a torrent of anti-police outrage. For most Torontonians, the video was the verdict. But what really happened on the Dundas streetcar that night? The untold story of the cop who pulled the trigger—and why
Just before midnight on July 26, 2013, Sammy Yatim boarded a westbound Dundas streetcar and made his way to the back. He was wearing the standard teen trifecta of baseball cap, black T-shirt and jeans that hung loosely off his slight frame. Despite the late hour, the streetcar was filling up. It was a Friday night in the middle of the summer, and Toronto was hopping: Justin Bieber at the ACC, Kiss at the Molson Amphitheatre, a beer festival at the CNE grounds and the Jays hosting the Houston Astros at the Dome.
Four young women got on around Spadina and found seats in the back, near Yatim. Soon after, he unzipped his fly and pulled out his penis. The other passengers heard a piercing scream and turned around to see one of the women jump out of her seat. Yatim had a stiletto switchblade and had tried to slash the woman’s throat. The panic onboard was instantaneous. The crowd surged forward on the streetcar, some rushing down the steps to the back exit, most pushing toward the front to get as far away from Yatim as possible. Frantic passengers were screaming to get out as Yatim inched up the aisle toward them, but the doors wouldn’t open on the moving streetcar and the steps quickly clogged with people. Yatim shouted, “Nobody get off the fucking streetcar.” All the while, he had the knife outstretched in one hand and his penis in the other.
The streetcar driver saw the stampede behind him and stopped the car at Bellwoods Avenue, opening both sets of doors. Passengers pushed and stumbled their way out. Some landed hard on the pavement before scrambling away. Inside the streetcar, one more rider was backing up the aisle, dragging his bike in front of him like a shield as Yatim advanced with his eyes wide and his jaw clenched. By the time the passenger reached the front door, Yatim had switched gears and was telling everyone to get off the streetcar, so the passenger jumped out, bike in tow.
Behind Yatim, the car looked to be deserted. Suddenly, a male passenger who had been hiding between two seats popped his head up and crept over to the back doors. He stood there for several seconds, as if trying to guess whether Yatim was going to stay on the streetcar or go out the front, probably to avoid running straight into him. He decided to take his chances and ran out the back.
Then it was just Yatim and the driver, who’d waited until all the passengers were off before trying to make his exit. By this time, several people outside had phoned 911, including one of the women from the back of the streetcar, who was crying hysterically into her phone, saying, “A man tried to kill me.” The police were seconds away. Yatim and the driver seemed to see the flashing lights through the front window at the same moment. The driver bolted just as Yatim lunged at him with the knife.
Yatim was alone at the front of the streetcar when Constable James Forcillo and his partner, the first cops on the scene, rushed to the open doorway. The only information Forcillo had when he arrived was that a man had tried to stab a girl on the streetcar. As the “roll-up” cop, Forcillo was the de facto officer in charge until a division sergeant got there. He pulled out his gun, a police-issue Glock 22 with hollow-point bullets, and stood roughly 12 feet away from the door, legs splayed, aiming squarely at Yatim. Like all Toronto police, Forcillo had been trained to take out his weapon only if he believed lethal force might be necessary. In other words, when a cop pulls his gun, it’s never a bluff. He’s prepared to use it.
“Drop the knife,” Forcillo ordered.
“No. You’re a fucking pussy,” Yatim replied.
Forcillo asked his partner to radio for a Taser to subdue Yatim. In Toronto, only division sergeants are allowed to carry Tasers. Normally, there are two road sergeants for each shift, but that night there was only one on duty for 14 Division, which covers seven downtown neighbourhoods—the Annex, Kensington-Chinatown, Palmerston–Little Italy, Christie-Ossington, Trinity Bellwoods, South Parkdale and the waterfront. Forcillo’s sergeant could have been in any one of them.
Over the cacophony of competing sirens as other officers arrived at the scene, Forcillo and two other cops shouted at Yatim half a dozen times to drop his weapon. Every time a cop barked, “Drop the knife,” Yatim’s answer was the same: “You’re a fucking pussy.”
Behind Forcillo, passengers were talking about what had just happened on the streetcar, some of them crying. It was Forcillo’s job to contain the scene and make sure Yatim didn’t get off the streetcar wielding a weapon. He could have reached Forcillo in one leap. If he jumped out into the crowd with his knife, Forcillo wouldn’t have been able to use his gun without endangering bystanders. He warned Yatim, “If you take one more step in this direction, that’s it for you, I’m telling you right now.” Yatim turned away and stepped back into the interior of the streetcar, then appeared to make a decision. He turned to face Forcillo and took a step toward the exit. Another cop shouted “Drop the—” but didn’t get to finish his sentence before Forcillo fired three quick shots. Yatim crumpled to the floor of the streetcar, still holding the knife. Cops were yelling “Drop it” when Forcillo squeezed off six more shots. He was the only officer to fire his gun. The cop standing on his right had his gun drawn but didn’t fire. His partner, standing a few feet to his left, never took her gun out of her holster.
Almost a dozen cops raced over. Yatim was still moving, still clenching the knife, when the division sergeant arrived, darted through the front doors and Tasered him. The crackle of the stun gun was unmistakable. Several more officers boarded the streetcar. One of them kicked the knife away from Yatim’s hand, and it hurtled into the air, clattering against the streetcar window. Another began CPR. Forcillo, standing in the middle of the crush of cops clustered at the front door, abruptly wheeled away and stood alone for a few seconds. An officer walked over and put his hand on Forcillo’s shoulder, leading him from the scene.
Police continued to do chest compressions on Yatim until the paramedics arrived and took over. He was pronounced dead at St. Michael’s Hospital early in the morning of July 27.
Within an hour, a cellphone video was posted to YouTube and quickly went viral. It was reposted on Facebook and Twitter and led every newscast across the city. Toronto was transfixed by the last 90 seconds of Sammy Yatim’s life. A city-wide consensus quickly formed: this 18-year-old didn’t have to die. The police could have held their fire and waited for the Taser. They could have tried to talk Yatim down instead of working him up, or shot the knife out of his hand, or used pepper spray. There had to be a non-lethal option available. And the question on everyone’s mind was, what kind of cop shoots a troubled teenager nine times?
In his six years on the force, James Forcillo had never fired his gun on the job until that night. He had drawn it before, during an arrest in Kensington Market, but managed to persuade two armed suspects to surrender without incident. Forcillo looks older than his 31 years. He has a square, heavyset build and a wary cast to his eyes. A second-generation Italian-Canadian, he spent his early childhood in Montreal, close to his mother’s large family. His father worked in the textile industry, moving from job to job, with long stretches of money troubles in between. A job change brought the family to Toronto when Forcillo was 12. A few years after that, his father found work in California, and Forcillo and his mom split their time between Toronto and L.A. When he was 18, he moved to California to live with his dad full-time, and his mother died of lung cancer shortly afterward. He enrolled in a criminal justice program, something that had interested him since high school, and graduated summa cum laude, but he wasn’t able to work without a green card. His relationship with his father soured, and at age 20 he decided to come back to Toronto to pursue a career in policing.
Forcillo met his future wife, Irina, in 2003, when he rented the basement apartment in her parents’ North York house. Like all cops, he’s prohibited from talking about any case that’s in front of the courts, including his own, but the rule doesn’t apply to his wife, who agreed to be interviewed for this story. A manager in a financial services firm, Irina is a stylish woman, self-possessed and yet unexpectedly girlish when she smiles. She comes from a close-knit Ukrainian family that immigrated to Israel when she was seven and then to Canada when she was 15. You can still hear the mix of hard Russian consonants and Israeli inflections in her voice.
They were an unlikely couple—Forcillo is shy and quiet, and Irina is outgoing and boisterous—but her family quickly brought him into the fold. Irina was in the last year of her business degree at U of T, and Forcillo was following a well-worn path to the police force. He worked as a security guard and studied psychology at York. In 2006 he became a court officer, escorting prisoners to and from their cells and maintaining order in the courtroom. The following year, he and Irina were married, and the year after that, when Irina was pregnant with their first child, Forcillo got the call that he had been accepted into the police-training program.
Forcillo’s expectations didn’t always match up to the reality. As a beat cop in the city’s downtown core, his job wasn’t glamorous. When he’d get home after a shift and Irina would push him to talk about his day, he’d say he didn’t see the sense in telling her about crack houses or suicides or the drunk who puked in his car or performing CPR on a guy who died anyway. He loved his work—he’d tell Irina he couldn’t imagine doing anything else—but he wasn’t married to it. He was more likely to head straight home after a shift than go out for a beer with his fellow officers. Sometimes Irina would encourage him to socialize more, but he’d say that at the end of a shift he just wanted to put his hat on the wall and be a dad.
Anyone married to a cop worries. Before Irina met Forcillo, all she knew about police work was what she saw in movies. To to try to reassure her, he told her a version of what most cops tell their spouses: “I could go my whole career and never have to use my gun. I hope I will never use my gun. And most likely I won’t. So calm down.”
Still, it was easy for Irina to fall down the rabbit hole of what-ifs. So she set some ground rules. First, she made him promise that no matter how busy he was at work, if she called him, he had to text her back, even just a one-liner to say he was okay, so she wouldn’t lie awake at night picturing him sprawled on a sidewalk. And then something else: “I told him, ‘You’ve got to promise me you’re going to come home to me.’ And he said, ‘I promise you, if it’s either me or someone else, it’s going to be someone else. I’m going to come home to you.’”
After shooting Yatim, Forcillo was taken to 14 Division. Whenever an officer has been involved in the death or serious injury of a civilian, the Special Investigations Unit is immediately called in. Following standard SIU protocol, a sergeant took Forcillo’s gun and cellphone, and segregated him from the other cops who’d been at the scene to prevent them from comparing stories and corrupting the investigation. He spent the next several hours in an interrogation room by himself, not permitted to leave unless chaperoned by another officer. The Toronto Police Association called the firm Brauti Thorning Zibarras, the union’s go-to lawyers for high-profile police cases.
Peter Brauti looks more like an NHL enforcer than a top-shelf lawyer. He’s well over six feet, with a shaved head and eyes that could drill a hole through cement. He was at his Muskoka cottage when he got a call from one of his associates. It was in the early hours of the morning, and the associate told his boss about the YouTube video. Brauti pulled it up on his phone and immediately understood how explosive this case was about to get.
Around the time Brauti was watching the video, Forcillo was allowed to make a phone call to his wife so that she wouldn’t find out about the shooting on the news. When her phone rang at 2 a.m., she knew something terrible had happened: “He never calls me in the middle of the night. He said, ‘Babe?’ and I hear his voice and it’s not his usual voice. It’s a bit lower. ‘There was a shooting. I was involved in a shooting. I’m okay. It was a good shoot.’ I said, ‘Is the other person okay?’ And he said, ‘No.’ And I asked him, ‘But it was a good shoot?’ And he said, ‘Yeah. But I gotta go.’ And that’s it. That was the call.” After he hung up, Irina lay in bed, her heart thumping out of her chest, and waited for morning.
Her husband was allowed to leave 14 Division around 6 a.m. and was home by 7. He walked Irina through what had happened on the streetcar. Then he told her about the video, and they watched it together. “I was watching it and I wasn’t concentrating on what’s going on in the background. I was looking at my husband. You know, shooting. This chaos. The screaming and yelling.” Irina didn’t have time to think about what she’d just seen. She had to get to work and act as if it were just an ordinary day in front of her co-workers. But she understood the enormity of those 90 seconds: “He took a life. You’re sitting in front of the person that you know very well, and now there’s this additional layer. How often do you sit in front of a person who has taken another person’s life?”
Two days after Yatim’s death, almost a thousand people joined his mother, Sahar Bahadi, and 16-year-old sister, Sarah, at Yonge-Dundas Square to protest the police’s use of excessive force. The group marched west on Dundas toward Bellwoods Avenue, carrying “Justice for Sammy!” signs, and chanting “Shame!” and “Think before you kill!” They stopped outside 52 Division and pushed toward the entranceway. Dozens of police officers held the crowd back and blocked the doors with their bicycles, while march organizers pleaded with protesters to stay calm. Forcillo’s critics characterized the standoff as a typical example of the cops circling the wagons around one of their own. On the other side, police were feeling under siege, the actions of one cop tainting the reputation of the entire force.
In the days and weeks that followed, the story of Sammy Yatim’s life took shape. He grew up in Aleppo, Syria, and came to Canada in 2008 to live with his father, Nabil Yatim, a management consultant, in Scarborough. His mother, a pediatrician and a devout Christian whose home in Syria was decorated with pictures of Jesus, stayed behind. When Yatim was killed, Bahadi was with relatives in Montreal, working on her immigration.
Yatim had attended Brebeuf College, an all-boys Catholic high school near Bayview and Steeles with a reputation for academic excellence (alumni include the social activist Marc Kielburger and the novelist Joseph Boyden). In his senior year, he transferred to an alternative school where he was reportedly hanging out with a new, tougher crowd and seemed less focused on his education. After one in a series of arguments with his father, he had moved out of his home and was sleeping on a friend’s couch.
Early news reports suggested he was mentally ill, but his family denied this, as did friends and former teachers, who characterized his behaviour on the night he was killed as anomalous. They described a sweet, gentle kid and said that whatever struggles he was having, at least up until that night, fell within the bounds of typical teenage drama.
The Yatim family hired Julian Falconer, a civil rights activist and the city’s top lawyer for the families of people killed or seriously injured by the police. Falconer conducted his own investigation into the shooting, and, in February, filed a multimillion-dollar civil action against Forcillo and two other officers at the scene, as well as police Chief Bill Blair and the Toronto Police Services Board, alleging cruelty, excessive force and insufficient training. (At press time, no statement of defence had yet been filed.) Three official investigations were also launched in the wake of the shooting. Chief Blair called for an independent review to examine how police respond to emotionally disturbed people, and, in late July, the former Supreme Court Justice Frank Iacobucci released his sweeping report, which included 84 recommendations ranging from increased training to outfitting front-line cops with Tasers and body cameras. The Ontario ombudsman, André Marin, opened an investigation into use-of-force guidelines, including de-escalation techniques. And Ontario’s police watchdog—the Office of the Independent Police Review Director—launched its own review of use-of-force tactics involving people in crisis.
When police talk about use of force, they’re referring to the way they deploy all options at their disposal, from bare hands to pepper spray to batons to guns. For Toronto police, the training begins during the two-month program at the Ontario Police College in Aylmer and continues with mandatory refresher courses every year. The cornerstone of the college’s teaching is the Use-of-Force Model, which is depicted as a wheel of concentric circles dictating how cops should respond to threatening situations. One circle lists the suspect’s behaviour, moving clockwise from “cooperative” to “resistant” to “assaultive” to “serious bodily harm or death.” The others outline an officer’s response options, from simple observation to physical intervention (like tackling a suspect) to lethal force. The model is designed to address the fluid, unpredictable nature of police encounters, and it demands that cops continually assess and reassess a situation as it unfolds, making decisions on the fly.
When a police officer regards a situation as potentially life-threatening, the only response option on the wheel is lethal force. An edged weapon confrontation (someone brandishing a knife or a pair of scissors) qualifies: faced with a knife, police officers will automatically take out their guns. They’re trained to aim at a suspect’s chest (which gives them the largest target and the best chance of immobilizing the person), and they’re told to shoot until the threat is neutralized—that is, until the suspect can’t continue the attack.
TPS officers are also taught to create distance between themselves and the person they’re facing down, so there’s enough time to respond if the suspect charges. This used to be called the 21-foot rule, but it’s now referred to as a reactionary gap and generally considered to be closer to 30 feet. Like the Use-of-Force Model, a reactionary gap is specific to each situation. An officer considers how big, small, fast, slow, heavy or high a suspect is, among other factors, and decides how quickly he might close the gap.
At the police college, cadets are placed in a series of simulations at the Outdoor Village, an elaborate set that includes sidewalks, storefronts and sections of an apartment building. There is scaffolding in place above the scenes where class members can observe. In one scenario, a cadet stands in a courtyard with a bag over his head. The bag is removed and he sees a man sitting on a bench reading a book, about 20 feet away. The bag is put back on and then removed again. Now the man is running straight at him with a knife in his hand. Can the cadet pull out his gun in time? Does he have time to back up? The answer is almost always no. In another scenario, a cadet knocks on a door to respond to what he believes is a simple noise complaint. Instead, when the door opens, he’s ambushed; a man with a fake knife charges at the cadet and tackles him to the ground, stabbing him multiple times. The knives in these simulations are electrically charged to deliver a jolt. The thinking is that electrical shocks drive home the point of the injuries a cop will sustain if he doesn’t successfully subdue the assailant.
In another exercise, a cadet uses a red marker as a knife to attack a fellow cadet, who’s wearing a white jumpsuit. The first cadet slashes and stabs away while the one in white does everything he can to prevent the marker from making contact. Despite his best efforts, the cadet in white is covered in red at the end of the exercise. An instructor then points out, based on the density of the ink and the location on the body, which of the red marks would constitute fatal wounds.
Cadets also learn communication strategies, roughly 12 hours over their two months at the academy. And officers are required to attend a three-day seminar every year that looks at the latest de-escalation techniques. But unlike what we see on police procedurals, a real cop won’t strike up a heartfelt conversation with someone holding a lethal weapon. They’re told to focus a suspect with clear, sharp commands—“Drop the knife”—in order to control the situation. Soft talk—“You seem upset; how can I help?”—the kind of communication that might put an unstable person at ease, can’t happen until the suspect lets go of the weapon.
At a coroner’s inquest into the police shootings of three mentally disturbed people, which wrapped up last February, Ron Hoffman, who trains new recruits in mental health issues, testified that police get extensive schooling in de-escalation techniques—both how to identify people in crisis and how to talk them down. When a suspect is threatening a cop with a sharp object, however, de-escalation isn’t an option: “The officer is bound to act,” he said.
The vast majority of arrests in Toronto—99 per cent—happen without use of force. And use-of-force incidents are on the decline. Our police are generally good at defusing incendiary situations, except when they come up against emotionally disturbed assailants. Like the three inquest subjects, Sammy Yatim was in distress—erratic and unpredictable, but not a hardened criminal. The TPS has Mobile Crisis Intervention Teams that partner mental health nurses with specially trained cops, but MCITs can only assist in confrontational situations once a suspect has been disarmed, and they’re not on call after 11 p.m. Until we adopt a better model, Toronto’s front-line cops will continue to make critical assessments in the blink of an eye under the worst possible circumstances.
Simulations and other training techniques can only do so much to prepare cadets for real-life encounters in the field. The best training for high-pressure situations happens on the job. The more experience cops have, the higher their tolerance for threat, and the less likely they are to shoot prematurely. Yet there’s a shortage of veteran front-line cops in Toronto. The average street cop, like Forcillo, has been doing it for less than seven years. In a job that’s increasingly stressful, messy, thankless and dangerous, the rewards just aren’t high enough, so they’re moving into specialized units or opting for desk jobs or training positions as early as possible in their careers. Police call the phenomenon “flight from the front.”
On July 30, three days after the shooting, Irina Forcillo was in her car when her best friend called in a panic. “They released his name,” her friend said. “I’m looking at his face right now. It’s on CP24.”
Within hours, reporters descended on the Forcillos’ North York home. Television vans and camera crews trying to get a picture of Forcillo and his family set up camp across the street. Journalists harassed the Forcillos’ friends, relatives and neighbours for information. Irina was bombarded with media requests through Facebook and Twitter, and a reporter showed up at her mother’s workplace. The Forcillos now have two daughters—Alexandra is five and Nicole is three—and it became impossible to get the kids in and out of the house safely, so they temporarily moved into Irina’s parents’ house nearby.
Irina shut down her social media accounts when threats against her husband started popping up everywhere. One anonymous person tweeted “We know where you are. Expect us.” Police removed the most serious comments and continue to investigate some, but they keep reappearing online. “Fucking pig better go down for this or shit will hit the fan. I’m not fucking kidding pigs” and “It’s way past time to have an INTERNATIONAL FRY PIG DAY! There was no reason on Earth for them to shoot that boy.” Brauti received threatening emails, and a letter with a picture of the World Trade Center towers collapsing was sent to every member of his staff, suggesting that Forcillo’s actions were equally heinous.
Forcillo was shocked by the deluge of online comments and news stories. He told Irina that he sometimes wondered if there was something else he could have done on that night. Mostly, she says, he felt betrayed: “I do something because nobody else wants to do it,” he told her. “I do my job, and now the same people who call in the cops to help them and protect them are telling me what I did was awful.”
Immediately after Yatim’s death, Forcillo saw the department’s psychologist, which is standard for officers involved in fatal shootings, and he continues to see a psychologist today. Peter Brauti, who couldn’t discuss the specifics of Forcillo’s case, talked to me in general terms about police shootings and said he has noticed a pattern. “Officers don’t usually embrace counselling at the beginning, because it’s a bit of a culture of, ‘I did my job.’ Or, ‘I’m supposed to be a symbol of strength or confidence for the public.’ But then after some time, you see them become more open to it because they realize, ‘You know what? I’m not okay.’”
Canada’s criminal code defines second-degree murder as the unplanned but intentional killing of another person without legal defence or justification. On August 19, just three weeks after the shooting, the SIU—which had interviewed streetcar passengers and other eyewitnesses, and had scrutinized all the cellphone recordings, surveillance images and security video—charged Forcillo with second-degree murder in the death of Sammy Yatim.
If Forcillo is convicted, he faces life in prison without the possibility of parole for at least 10 years. It’s an unusual charge, especially for a police officer in the line of duty. In fact, Forcillo is one of only three Ontario police officers to face a second-degree murder charge since the SIU was formed in 1990. One of them, Constable Randy Martin of York Regional Police, was acquitted in 2000 in the shooting death of 44-year-old Tony Romagnuolo during the attempted arrest of Romagnuolo’s 17-year-old son. A fist fight had broken out on the front lawn of the Romagnuolos’ home, and in the struggle Martin shot and killed the father.
The other case took four years to resolve. In 2010, David Cavanagh, a Toronto Emergency Task Force officer, was charged in the death of 26-year-old Eric Osawe after a drug and weapons raid went horribly wrong. While Cavanagh and Osawe were struggling on the floor, Cavanagh’s submachine gun accidentally discharged and shot Osawe in the back. The Crown, in conjunction with the SIU, originally charged Cavanagh with manslaughter, but the judge dismissed the case before it could go to trial. The Crown appealed, upping the charge to second-degree murder, and the case was dismissed for a second time—the judge ruled Osawe’s death a “tragic but accidental confluence of circumstances that occurred in a high-pressure and high-risk situation.” The Crown appealed again, but the case was dismissed for the third and final time this past April. Cavanagh saw a psychiatrist and was on medication for anxiety and insomnia for a time. He’s still a cop but has not been in the field as an ETF officer since the shooting.
When Forcillo was charged, Cavanagh called him to offer support and suggested they meet for a coffee. “My first time meeting with him, I saw the look in his eyes,” says Cavanagh, “an aloofness that was familiar to me—that thousand-yard stare.” Cavanagh is blunt about how devastated he was by his ordeal. At his first psychiatric appointment, he was so discombobulated he left the engine running in his parked car. “Nobody goes to work thinking I’m going to kill somebody today. To have something like this happen is unbelievable. You read about somebody facing the same charge—somebody who robbed a bank and killed a teller—and I’m facing the same legal consequences as this person even though I was executing my duty. Trying to make sense of something that doesn’t make sense really causes the wheels to spin in your head.”
When the charge against Forcillo was publicly announced, Yatim’s sister tweeted “Good morning JUSTICE,” and the city seemed to exhale a collective sigh of relief.
Forcillo was arrested at Brauti’s office the next day and taken to a holding cell at Old City Hall. A few hours later, Brauti was in front of Justice Gary Trotter with his request for bail. Forcillo’s in-laws posted his $510,000 bond, and he was released shortly afterward. The judge included a 9 p.m. house curfew among Forcillo’s bail conditions.
There was nothing for him to do but wait. The Forcillos moved back into their house after the media frenzy died down, and he stayed home while Irina worked.
Forcillo was reinstated to desk duty last February but is not permitted to carry a weapon or wear his uniform. His assignment to Crime Stoppers caused another flare of outrage across the city. A Facebook group calling itself Sammy’s Fight Back for Justice issued a statement: “We are extremely disappointed that a police officer charged with second-degree murder of which there is ample video evidence is being allowed to return to duty.”
Forcillo’s preliminary hearing began in April and lasted four weeks. Prelims give both sides the chance to hear evidence that will be presented at the trial. As is now standard in most criminal cases, the judge, Richard LeDressay, issued a publication ban on any evidence presented at the pretrial. This is done to protect the jury pool from being tainted—an increasingly difficult task in high-profile cases when viral images flood the media.
In late July, the Crown added a charge of attempted murder, likely in case they’re unable to convict on the murder charge. The trial itself won’t happen for at least another year. The Crown will argue that Yatim’s death was criminal, that Forcillo cannot justify the shooting. They will likely focus on alternative choices Forcillo could have made before firing his gun. He could have waited for the Taser. He could have backed up to create more distance between himself and Yatim. He could have closed the streetcar doors. They will likely zero in on the fact that Forcillo was the only cop to fire, that he clearly interpreted the threat differently than the other officers at the scene. And undoubtedly they will hammer away at the shocking six shots he fired after his first three put Yatim on the streetcar floor as proof that he used excessive force.
On the other side, the defence will argue that every action Forcillo took was consistent with his training. That he had good reason to fear for his life and the lives of the people on the street. That he was charged with the responsibility of making a split-second decision in a chaotic situation, and that’s exactly what he did. The jury will hear, among other things, about police training, rogue cops, troubled teenagers, illegal drugs, adrenalin dumps, sightlines, ballistics, biased media and cop culture. They’ll have to sift through a mountain of evidence, including a 90-second video that can’t possibly tell the whole story.
What a load of crap. Cops shouldn’t be thugs. Period.
What if it was your kid, Ms Rogan?
It’s suggested a number of times throughout this article that police cannot use de-escalation techniques until the suspect has been disarmed. There is absolutely no reason why this should be the case.
Why not maintain a perimeter, keep a safe distance and have one officer talk TO (rather than AT) the individual, while other officers stay prepared in case of violence? Sometimes, the only thing needed to diffuse a situation is time and patience….
There were other options …. there was NO immediate threat. And I don’t care if this cop was a choir boy, and sang in church one hour before Yatim was shot — he Murdered this kid !!! The officer who shot my brother – naked – and in medical crisis at 10 am on the morning of Dec. 2nd – drew his gun as he exited his vehicle – from the time he arrived his GPS shows the vehicle stopped and within 10 seconds Michael was shot – twice.
I do not think all officers are bad – but, I have certainly met some that should not have made it past the recruiting process.
and as far as empathy, patience, and de-escalating — the incident with the peel officer 2 weeks ago …. including the off-duty and “In Crisis” officer that had his gun on him and was being chased by officers from 5 police forces … then a 2 hour standoff ended with him and the standoff was peacefully resolved. The officers that day showed that they CAN when it is one of their own show the required patience and empathy to get this man (one of their own) home safely to his family.
But … when it is one of the public, like Yatim, My brother Michael, and many more – they just don’t bother … they treat other officers (their own) much differently.
And, I don’t care how much this officer Forcillo is suffering … he should be. I tell you Sammy’s family is suffering every day – I know them. And my family, we will never be the same … it destroys you.
I hope this does not happen to your family Mary – but, let me tell you — it could. We NEVER though this would happen to Michael … Never. But if you ever experience this horrible tragedy you will be ashamed for trying to justify this officers actions and attempting to humanize him.
Shame on you – and shame on Toronto Life for publishing this and making it front page
he had a knife and could have hurt the cops . he is from syria and may be planning to fight for ISIS . its more a self defence on the cops part then killing .
The fact that only one officer fired clearly suggest that this was a horrible judgment or should I say not judgment at all.
Accountability:
What happened to all the promises made after the killing?
What steps were taken to prevent or better manage these kinds
of situations?
How come police are so secretive about their internal
investigations? Why is it internal?
Communication:
Some police officers clearly act like a bully on the street
when they stop people. Some speed down the neighborhood without a siren on.
I saw a police officer stop a guy on Queen Street West by mistake. Asked him
to put his hand up and go against the wall. The guy was clearly confused and
too few seconds to process the information but compiled. When the officer realized
that he was not the right guy, he just asked him to move along without any apology.
There is a fundamental communication and attitude problem with a lot of officers.
The police chief should explain and should be held accountable for the steps that were taken and not take after this incident.
This article clearly has a lot of problem. “He could have reached Forcillo in one leap. If he jumped out into the crowd with his knife” – Question to Mary Rogan, can you watch the video again and show us where the bystanders are? Can you explain why the police didn’t step back little bit if they felt threaten?
“One leap”, clearly you carefully picked this phrase to give readers the impression that the police did not have a choice. And that is even ignoring the fact that it could not have been one leap; unless he is super man. It sickens me to read your article.
The fastest gun draw is 0.252 seconds, “an average police officer can draw and fire their weapon in about one and a half seconds…that time is an average and well-practiced officers can do it faster (some in under one second)”, and average driver reaction time is 1.5 seconds.
So, you telling me that a trained police officer does not have enough time to pull the trigger by the time a person decides to take a leap, starts getting in motion and then jumps and then tries to harm the office with a knife?
What does it take to be a Journalist?
Joanne, I’m so sorry for your loss. I read about the story in the paper and felt shock. Many of our family members and extended family suffer from mental illness. One of my greatest fears was that a family friend would meet a similar fate when he was having bad days. He died recently. Now I worry about my brother. People with mental illness have the right not to be killed when they are in distress. Your brother was not a threat and a man running naked down the streets should be a clear indicator that a special response crew should be called immediately. I agree with you so so much.
However, Sammy, unlike your brother, who was not a threat, and in open streets, did something very, very different. He had a weapon. He threatened people. They were trapped in a small, crowded space with no escape; this is an entirely different and more dangerous situation. On this part, I have to disagree.
I don’t think Sammy needed to die, but he needed to be stopped, and the flaw is in our entire SYSTEM that we don’t HAVE a plan, a strategy, to respond to situations like these other than with guns by maiming or killing people, good or bad. It creates havoc for the victims (all), bystanders, family, police , and the citizens. I take public transit daily, and there have been many times where I felt threatened by other riders, and that’s just with verbal/intimidating actions. I cannot imagine how terrifying it would be to have someone escalate beyond that. And when you’re on public transit, there is no one to help you other than the driver – and not even that on the subway car.
Mental illness will affect 1 in 5 people soon, so these scenarios will become more common as the cities become more populous, so we’d better have a plan. I may even fall ill – and i’d rather have a city help me than kill me.
Forcillo told his wife that he sometimes wondered if there was anything else he could have done that night.
Is this guy for real?
Of course there was something else he could have done: WAIT IT OUT.
What was the hurry?
Was coffe break coming up?
If the kid on the bus was his own son, would he not have thought of something else to do and would he have been in such a hurry to shoot?
Would he have then come home and explained to his wife that: I DID MY JOB ”
And would he then expect his wife to say: I understand honey , it is so unfair.
Mr. Forcillo, this did not have to happen. Not only was there other ways, it was not that difficult.
The depressing part of all this is that instead of looking at better ways to do their job the police is busy trying to justify this action.
It would go a long way if officers were reminded that ” TO SERVE AND PROTECT” does not only pertain to themselves.
I’m curious as to why Toronto Life is trying to justify excessive force by the police. If you justify every wrong action take by a cop, you’ll just encourage them to keep at it.
How about, instead of trying to justify it, say it was wrong. And try to learn from what happened so it can never happen again.
Nine bullets fired at a kid with a knife, with no one around, is extremely excessive force.
Power to white male?
Really? You’re a bit of a dumb-ass – aren’t you? Not quite all there.
The statement:”He [Yatim] could have reached Forcillo in one leap” is pretty easily demonstrably false from the video. As is noted in the article, Forcillo was 12 feet from the exit, and Yatim wasn’t even standing right at the exit (as far as can be told from the admittedly grainy video, he never descends even one of the steps leading to the exit), but several feet back. Unless we’re to believe that Yatim could somehow leap 15 feet or so from a standing position (presumably bursting through the ceiling of the bus in order to get enough altitude to complete this incredible jump), it’s just not true.
” If he jumped out into the crowd with his knife, Forcillo wouldn’t have been able to use his gun without endangering bystanders.”
This isn’t demonstrably false per se, but heavily misleading. It’s not as if there was a crowd of innocent bystanders surrounding the exit — watch the video. There is a large group of armed police officers and no one else visible for a longways away, and none in the direction of the potential gunshots. How exactly Yatim would have “jumped out into the crowd” is pretty mysterious.
“Yatim turned away and stepped back into the interior of the streetcar,”
He never left the interior of the streetcar. Again, see the video.
“then appeared to make a decision”
What is this based on? I’m curious to know who claims Yatim “appeared to make a decision” and then how exactly that is assessed, and how the writer felt comfortable writing that.
To be fair, I thought the latter half of the article, focusing on how the police deal with threats and Forcillo’s own story, is interesting and well-written, but the actual description of the shooting at the beginning takes a few massive liberties and at several points editorializes heavily in order to exaggerate the threat posed by Yatim and thus justify his killing. The question is why exactly would Toronto Life do this?
First of all, that’s not a constructive statement in any way. It’s just a little nugget of pathos. Second of all, I would never brandish a knife at an officer, or fuck myself up to the extent it seemed like a good idea. So it’s not really a valid hypothetical.
I must say I’m a little disappointed in the message most commenters seem to be taking away from this article. Equating this with a justification of Forcillo’s actions is either a wild misrepresentation or fundamental misunderstanding of the content. What it does appear to be is an implicit condemnation of trial by social media frenzy. Nothing more, nothing less. Both sides have human stories to tell, which will be told in a court of law.
When I first saw the video cellphone footage, I would’ve agreed that different measures needed to be taken. However after reading this article, firing his weapon was the correct thing to do because if Yatim had leaped out into the crowd attacking the officer wouldn’t have had a away to stop Yatim without endangering innocent bystanders…shooting six more times and then using a taser on him was where the police went wrong. Once a person has a weapon, whether they a mentally unstable or not, they become a lethal threat to not only the people around them, but to themselves and unfortunately in those cases where the weapon wielding individual does not back down when instructed to, the police have to fire. This case was excessive, but the officer’s initial decision was correct.
I’m sorry for your brother but one incident has nothing to do with the other.
A non-cooperative man, who had already threatened others, was standing 12 feet away with a knife that can easily kill (which police body armour does not stop). Yes, there was an imminent threat. Sgt Dennis Tueller proved a long time ago that an armed person can travel 21 feet in 1.5 seconds. Yatim was half that distance and moving forward when he was shot.
It is unfortunate that you can only view this from one perspective, which is to admittedly de-humanize one of the individuals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75RTkGbiJpk
Watch this video and see how deadly a person can still be after being shot 12 times.
If it was her kid then she would not be objective and would be blinded by bias and emotion.
How did the officer know which bullet killed him… heard the officer in Barrie shot a (2009) whole magazine at a guy and he kept coming at him…
I wish Yatim just drop the knife and nobody had to deal with ths BS
You cannot murder me because I *might* come and slap you for being stupid.
EXACTLY… Sammy Yatim was MURDERED by James Forcillo because Yatim repeatedly called Forcillo a pussy… the pocket-knife was the excuse.
Forcillo IS a coward, a psycho, a bully AND a pussy.
Forcillo was more angry then afraid.
Just my opinion.
*(If the article itself can print “pussy”, I see no reason for my opinion to be rejected).
Truth hurts… and some psychologically unstable people with guns kill those who speak it.
I’d like to be within 12 feet of you.
Some people are cop groupies…. some are married to cops, some are related to cops, some are on the take with a cop.
This article lacks any true objectivity and should not have even been written with the intent to sway public opinion until AFTER the trial for the charges that the GOVERNMENT HAS DECIDED ARE WARRANTED AGAINST THIS PSYCHO.
That aside, many MANY cops hang their heads in shame because of Forcillo’s actions. This biased story doesn’t seem to acknowledge that in any form.
Yatim wasn’t “coming at” anybody….Nor did he harm anybody.
Forcillo was more angry then threatened, he couldn’t handle being called a “pussy” by a skinny kid alone on a street car with a pocket-knife.
The cops knew NOTHING of that when they arrived. MOST didn’t feel “threatened” and didn’t have their guns drawn. Forcillo couldn’t handle being called a pussy, it’s as simple as that. He is a coward and a bully. Roids made him all big and strong and someone STILL called him a “pussy”. He murdered out of humiliation and anger, not out of fear.
MOST cops respond to ANY call as if it’s an “inconvenience”.
….. but cops end up being thugs. Most are cowards and bullies.
Integrity and mental stability doesn’t come by putting on a uniform and *acting self-righteous… and you can’t “hire” and pay for integrity or mental stability either.
I wonder what would you all think if you were sitting on that street car when it was happening. Shame on police for not bringing him Timmy’s and a blanket.
I find the innuendo in this article to be particularly offensive. Rogan stated on Metro Morning that she has watched the video more than 100 times in preparing this piece. Where then could she find the “evidence” to suggest that Yatim, alone in the street car, armed with a small pocket knife and spouting foul language was an imminent threat to innocent bystanders. She writes that Yatim tried to slit the throat of a passenger. Press reports indicate there were no injuries to bystanders. Where does she draw this evidence? Are there witness statements, hospital reports, police reports that she had access to? Surely a seasoned journalist attributes statements to some source… particularly in a case where the person alleged to have committed such an act is DEAD and so can no longer defend himself. And where are the bystanders by the time the gun goes ablazing? Nowhere in sight in the video footage, so the suggested threat to bystanders that Rogan writes that officer Forcillo had to deal with seems a little far fetched without clearer, credible evidence. And if the video is not the only public evidence we should be considering, then Rogan should surely quote the sources she is getting her information from. And the suggestion that Yatim, leaping or merely stepping toward 10 flackjacketed and more heavily armed police officers standing some 12 feet away from him outside the streetcar constitutes a threat is really incredulous. Why not shoot to disarm, as in IN THE LEG….and why 9 shots? Why nine rounds (8 of which hit the target), and then the taser for good measure? Was one not enough for a kid with a pen knife and a foul mouth? From start (including the terrible standfirst that infers that readers are poised to read “what really happened”) to finish, Rogan paints the Yatim as somehow deserving of this kind of reaction. This is a shoddy, lazy, sentimental piece of journalism. If you chose to profile the officer and the impact on him and his family, do so, but also have the decency to interrogate the underbelly of increasingly militarised police forces and actions…and reference the literature that clearly warns that this kind of policing does more to divide and rule than it does to draw communities together. Forcillo is clearly protected by his membership of the TPF, his right to due process, and likely a very good legal team, his ability to get bail and to be allowed to return to duty, as well as to psychological counselling for himself and his family. He’s a darn sight better off than most people who face similar charges. Rogan presents no challenge to the status quo, shows very little insight or interest in probing the racism and social/class biases that riddle among members in law enforcement in Toronto, agencies across Canada, the US and likely most other places around the world. It’s no surprise that her writing features front row centre in Toronto Life. It’s a glossy magazine aimed at a particular demographic of this city….not reflective of people or communities other than predominantly white, mid-upper middle classes.
Thanks to social media in the digital age this case is going to court. Without the video footage taken on a cellphone and sent viral, do you think this case would have seen the light of day? The social media “frenzy” that you refer to cannot bring restore the life of Sammy Yatim, but maybe, just maybe, it might contribute to a little justice being done for his family….and moreover it might make law enforcement officials think before they fire away like there’s no tomorrow.
does Toronto Life not have a fliter/editor function to monitor/block the commentary of racists and xenophobes?
NOT BUYING IT… YOU hold a knife … a cop say drop it and you dont well then…. what can you expect… AND yes any knife on a person neck can kill anyone…. “NOR id he harm anybody”… you have a knife… do you wait till he harms someone…
Are you this dumb in real life?
I can’t distinguish between the intelligence of the person you are referring to and Michael Smith.
Anyway, I would rather let the fools speak and by doing so expose themselves.
Far too much editorialized content in this piece. The author seems to insist she knew what Yatim was thinking in his decision making process. Are those particular conclusions early in the piece the author’s interpretation or what she derived from spending far too much time with the police in preparing for this piece? I was brought to this article through the family members of a police officer posting on social media. They are the ones who are going to be celebrating this piece as justification for Yatim’s murder.
ISIS? Really? Geez, racists will go to any lengths to justify the murder of Yatim. Until this summer, you probably didn’t know what ISIS was, neither did anyone else around here. That this post got so many likes (and almost all from guests) likely shows all the racist cops and their families who are going to be rallying around this article and nonsensical arguments in its comments thread.
This is a blowjob piece for the cops. This is billed as the “untold story of the cop who pulled the trigger—and why” – does that suggest neutrality to you? It screams justification for the murder.
I noticed you ‘like’ the comment from the user ‘power to white male’ who wildly suggests Yatim could’ve joined ISIS. That’s the kind of thinking you like to identify yourself with?
“any knife on a person neck can kill anyone” – well since he didn’t put the knife anywhere near the cop, we can assume from your logic you think anyone holding a knife – any kind of knife – is a potential threat. Police better start storming restaurants and peoples homes and shooting up anyone cutting onions or using utensils.
Nobody other than Yatim was sitting on the streetcar when the shooting happened. Conflating two separate situations to manipulate emotions is a popular tactic among unthinking supporters of violent authority. Shooting a guy six more times after he is already down is nothing more than intent to kill. It was murder.
It is unfortunate that you buy BS like Dennis Tueller’s “proof” – which was timely pro-police propaganda – as justification for Forcillo’s actions. Not every situation is the same and not every person is gifted to travel 21 feet in 1.5 seconds. Yatim could barely walk straight as per the staggering in the video before he was shot three times…and then, there was a bonus six rounds when he was already down. Justify those six extra shots for us, Ryan. The intent is pretty clear when someone shoots a man who is down six times. Tell me, could a person who is down with three shots in him travel 21 feet in 1.5 seconds? Forcillo deserves the vilification and he should serve prison time for murder.
Instead Ms Rogan became blinded from spending too much time with the cops, Forcillo and his wife, who are all going to rally around this as a justification piece.
And that’s admissible in the Yatim case how? If all you have is conjecture and a one in a billion instance of a freakish superhuman incident to back up your support of a murderer cop, then you’ve lost the plot.
Wait, are you saying with your “my mother” comment that you’re here commenting on your mom’s article? Is the whole family here to sway the levels of ‘like’ and ‘dislike’ options – uncles, cousins, in-laws, what are we talking here? Very objective then.
The officers on scene having tasers would have ended this quickly, and the only debate would have been why police like to bully people with tasers rather than the current debacle about shootings. The Ontario Ministry of Safety and Corrections is the bogey man hiding in the shadows hoping nobody notices them and hoping to get away like bandits, bc they are guilty of bad policy leading to preventable deaths. THEY are the ones who did not allow Ontario frontline police officers to be equipped until now, and present officers with a stark choice when dealing with dangerous people: pull out your gun or get stabbed. NOTE: Contrary to popular opinion, tasers are not the magic bullet that would prevent all deaths; the circumstances have to be adequate to accept the risk (slow moving or stationary subject, back up officer in the case of failed deployment, subject not wearing thick clothing, etc). However, this would have been a good scenario for tasers. The Yatim and Michael Eligon (slow moving, back up officers on scene, wearing a sheer hospital gown) shootings could have been avoided totally.
I would tend towards agreeing with you. As someone who has been around when police had to be called because of a crisis (m. health) , most times it ends without people being hurt but it is scary for everyone involved, especially the attacker, who often is beyond themselves during this time. It is painful for family members as well. The fear of something like that happening in a public space is why a lot of families feel like they cannot go out without what we termed “a plan”.
I also wonder what the people on the TTC car felt like. First, going through the ordeal of being held captive, then having to be present when someone was shot. I’m sure many of those people had to speak to counselors to deal with the trauma.
I agree with you about the tazer/6 shots being overboard though. The first 3 is the painful reality of what options are available to police because we do not yet take mental illness serious enough to equip not only the police,but the TTC, the public and the City with a well thought out strategy.
As a rider on the TTC, the option available is 911 and hide.
Thank goodness this isn’t the USA where everyone had a gun and this would have been a worse situation.
It is not once in a billion. It happens quite often. Rather than make your job easier by giving you the research, go google it yourself. I’ll give you a head start: Skokie, Illinoise shooting, and FBI miami shooting.
No, I was going to reply to him as “Troll or do you actually believe what you are saying” but decided not to feed the trolls.
I hadn’t noticed I had “liked” the comment. Thank you for pointing this out to me so I could change that. If you have ever read any of my other comments, or the one in fact, on this page, you would notice that the tone of my words are in fact quite different and contrast to those of power white male :)
Now that the comment is deleted by the mods, I hope I can still change it.
Usually I get ripped for supporting pro-feminism and liberal writings lol.
I am interested in hearing testimony from the street car riders. It seems that this was inches away from another Vince Li incident (Greyhound beheading). Thank goodness more people were not hurt.
If you were on the subway with me and threatened to slap me, i would hit the PAS; if you were on the subway with me with a knife, I don’t know what I would do, probably hide until I could get off.
I dont think the first 3 shots were murder. The other 6 … thats a separate issue. But this story is not a cut and dry case, and unless you have an understanding of both sides, this type of comment is not constructive, nor does it spur the correct dialogue that we as a province need to have about policing, victims rights, safety of the public, and correct use of force, and what role social media plays and it’s responsibilities.
York U has a sociology prof who wrote an amazing oped of the event that I will try to post. I find it the most neutral and fair of what has been posted so far. I will try to post it here on this discussion
Honestly, I feel that most probably don’t want to talk about it. Most probably went through some sort of counselling and want to put it behind them. First being scared for their lives, then witnessing a human being killed (if they stuck around and didnt flee the scene.)
I’ve been on a subway once where the PAS was hit because of a violent incident between 2 men. It’s a horrible feeling and when the train stopped, most people got off and left the scene. Its very stressful and traumatic.
you’re absolutely right. it’s something no one wants to relive. but for the sake of justice to Forcillo and Yatim, they must be called to give their witness testimony. i hope they will get help if they need it.
So I suppose the various psychological exams, interviews with candidates, their families, friends and previous employers before being hired offer don’t qualify as “hiring mental stability and integrity”? Most police officers are cowards? Why don’t you, being an obvious model of bravery, integrity and stability, do us all a favour and apply to become an officer?
Just remember that there is ALWAYS two sides to every story. And posting disgusting comments doesn’t help the situation. One cop’s actions does not reflect all cops. People who work in the the public service profession like Fire-fighters, Paramedics, and Police Officers have done so many good things for the city that none of us civilians will even know because social media only wants to hear about the negative things that they do.
So before you spit at a cop and call them a pig, just think, would you want someone to do that to you or someone that you love? Behind that uniform and badge is a person that is working to support their family. Mistakes are made that sometimes can be fatal but that person has to live with the memory of that mistake for the rest of their life and that is a life sentence that can never be removed or forgotten. Threatening them, their family and their colleagues on social media doesn’t make the situation better, or bring a person back to life, it just makes you an emotional terrorist. If you do not stop this cycle of hate, there will never be peace.
He did, however, try to slash 2 other people before the officer arrived. One of those people called 9-1-1 and told the dispatcher just that, he wasn’t exactly trying to butter his bread at Swiss Chalet. Or do you think that an officer has to have a knife sticking out of his chest before he can deem someone a risk to his life?
Keith, to just assume that the action is wrong without knowing all of the evidence is an extremely ignorant position to take.
Do you know what was said and done by both parties before and during the shooting?
Do you know what explaination is given for why he fired the second set of shots? For why the taser was used?
What expertise do you have that makes you qualified to determine whether something is excessive force?
This may well be a case of excessive force, but until you have all of the evidence, keeping an open mind is the best way to go.
Your error is in assuming that if a cop “pulls the trigger” the person with the knife will be stoped. People don’t just drop when they’ve been shot (that’s Hollywood). People can be mortally wounded and still be extremely dangerous for some time, often several minutes. So yes, a cop may be able to draw their gun and shoot the guy once before he gets there, but actually stopping the threat is virtually impossible from that distance and in that timeframe.
An obvious example is the recent stabbing at the Atrium at Bay. The guy was stabbed in the chest and didn’t even know it for a minute or so. He’s now in critical condition.
Really now. This is mob mentality at it’s best. Some bozo sees something on social media and it becomes gospel. Give me a break. Sometimes scumbags need to be killed
Do you have any proof of these accusations?
Firstly, I felt there would be few people more qualified to respond to a disgusting comment about her son, than her son. Secondly, you can check the like/dislike option history for each comment. I’ve down-voted only one especially heinous remark, that of “The Real James”. The thought that my entire extended family (we all definitely believe Forcillo is innocent, because that’s how family works right, one brain? Oh wait…) would care enough about the opinions of a couple netizens to band together and stifle these champions of justice is comically fantastical. The only other thing I’ve done on this forum is offer my own opinion at the top of this section.
Tl;dr: Everybody should think for themselves, Nobody cares enough to sabotage a comment section, I was personally offended by this comment in particular for its complete lack of substance and offensive nature.
All I see is a psycho pervert with a knife, and a cop who wasn’t scared to do the right thing.
I’m glad Sammy’s dead. Another piece of trash off the street.
he shot 9 times, 6 times when he was on the ground; and i believe all of them hit the kid. so…your point?
When you sign up for being a police officer, you accept to take little more risk to save lives, not solve problems by eliminating people.
I’m sorry if I was harsh in my comment. Your other posts seemed far too reasonable – though I disagree with much of it – to be lumped in with a blatant racist. Cheers.
Do you think after an officer shoots someone three times and that person is down, he is still a risk to the officer’s life? Explain the other six shots to me. When was the officer still threatened, between shots 4 and 5, 5 and 6, maybe between bullets number 7 and 9 Yatim was still breathing and that was viewed as a threat?
It also “happens quite often” that after a couple of shots someone dies. Try Mike Brown in Ferguson, MO. This line of thinking presented by Ryan is idiotic. Yatim was down after three shots. He was already contained inside a streetcar, which has doors that can be closed from the outside, by the way. After he was initially down, the police could’ve easily closed the doors and waited for paramedics, but Forcillo decided to pump six more rounds into him. Unacceptable.
What happened in the streetcar before Forcillo and after he arrived on the scene are two separate things. I would love for Yatim to be alive to face the law for threatening other passengers, but Forcillo made sure with six extra shots on someone who was already down and contained that he was the judge and jury. Another overpaid meathead with a gun, they are the real scourge of Toronto’s public service sector.
Another recent example is Ferguson, Missouri, where someone was shot and died. What does that have to do with anything? Using examples from other incidents has nothing to do with this particular case. Quite often people just die when they’re shot (it has nothing to do with Hollywood), as it happened to Mike Brown in Ferguson. Trying to justify Forcillo’s actions, shooting at someone six times after the victim was already down and well contained, is disgusting.
They’re not cowards, they’re authority-wannabe idiots who are a few steps above bouncers outside night clubs thanks to their guns, protective shields, a powerful union and emotionally manipulative gains in public opinion through decades of effort. All leads to terrible behaviour (recall G20?) and ridiculously bloated salaries and benefits.
I really hope someone like you gets to say these things about you one day.
The officer certainly will have to justify why he fired the second set of 6 shots. I don’t know what his explaination will be for that, but I’ll reserve judgement until I hear it.
As for accepting more risk, this is true. However, this level of risk acceptance is clearly defined by the Police’s policy and proceedures in cluding the “Use of Force” model described here. The initial set of shots appears to be acceptible based on the current use of force guidelines.
None of this validates your initial logic that was predicated on incorrect assumptions.
All police and military training is focused on one thing: “neutralize the threat”. That is not synonymous with “shoot to kill”. Assuming Forcillo was justified in taking the first 3 shots, by any measure the threat was neutralized after Yatim was down. The last 6 shots were, at best extremely excessive use of force. Was it murder? I guess the jury will have to decide.
Your comment makes no sense. 1. I wasn’t justifying the officer’s actions – I’m reserving judgement until I know all of the facts. 2. The Ferguson incident, while tragic, has nothing to do with the threat level of someone holding a knife to someone holding a gun. 3. Mike Brown was shot several times.
Yes people can be immediately incapacitated from a single shot, but this is not very common and the Toronto12345 was in error to make that assumption in his/her analysis.
I don’t know what the rest of your family does. You are however here commenting on behalf of the author as family, it seems, from your other post as well as this one which has become unfortunately quite personal.
But I would strongly argue personal offence is far more relevant to the family of the shooting victim, who has to endure “I’m glad Sammy’s dead” type commentary (as someone posted in the thread of your other post). This article clearly only feeds the shoot first, ask later types with more justification for their brand of “justice” – they’re your “champions” now.
That’s going way to far. While Sammy was clearly a danger to others that night, that certainly isn’t reason to celebrate his death.
He definitely will have to provide justification for both sets of shots (with the first being far easier to explain than the second). I’m very curious to hear why he felt the need to fire the last 6 shots.
belt bombs are not uncommon to syrians , they know how to make them and explode them in public places. so he would have exploded and killed the cops. prevention is better than cure. The officer took him for safety of his own people. Look how cruel and unjust his own people are to him .
I am a dumb – ass Because i care for the safety of the people who built this country . I would care more for the real canadians than allowing these thrid world baggage
You said that “People don’t just drop when they’ve been shot (that’s Hollywood)” which is nonsense. How many times does a person need to be shot to be contained, exactly? Also, many times in “Hollywood” people do get up after being shot (pretty much the norm in every Lethal Weapon movie), that’s also Hollywood, so your comment made zero sense. Which Hollywood movies portray shooting more accurately, in your mind? (this is rhetorical, because your initial comment was ludicrous) Did Mike Brown get up after he was shot the first time? No. Neither did Yatim, though if he had been breathing, his life might’ve been saved without the six additional rounds.
Also, Mike Brown was unarmed according to several media reports and the St. Louis county police chief, not sure why you’re contrasting threat of “knife to someone holding a gun.”
“Journalists harassed the Forcillos’ friends, relatives and neighbours for information” really? or did they simply ask around as is a journalists job to do? where is the evidence of this claim? THIS is shoddy “journalism”
yeah rough going for the accused’s family…he should have thought of that before he unloaded his magazine at kid holding a small knife..who was alone, no hostages, in an enclosed, secure streetcar. it wasn’t just bad judgement…it was murder. And the jury will very likely agree.
Either your reading comprehension is extremely poor, or your deliberately constructing straw-man arguments here. (sigh) Lets try this again:
The number of shots it takes to neutralize the threat of an attacker is not known, but it usually takes more than one.
The Mike Brown situation is entirely different as he wasn’t armed and thus posed a much lower threat. However, as I understand it, he was also shot multiple times.
You talk about “getting up” which shows your lack of knowledge on the subject. Single bullets don’t normally knock people over. Basic physics dictates that the recoil on the gun has as much (actually slightly more) force than the impact of the bullet. If a single bullet would knock people over, so would the act of firing the weapon.
Once again, Toronto12345’s assumption that a person with a knife at 21′ is no threat is based on that incorrect assumption that an officer would just have to get a single round off in order to neutralize the threat.
when was the last time anyone got stormed in the restaurant with a knife…. that has nothing to do with anything… focus… and if you read this article a female passenger said Yatim tried to slash her neck and it appears that the officer knew this before he shot Yatim… its now for the courts to decide..
Yatim is not the victim here… agree with me he started the whole event… if he just drop the knife a non issue here.
I agree with you that Yatim committed a crime, but he was of no threat to Forcillo. What happened before and after Forcillo’s arrival are two different events. You think Forcillo knew exactly what happened before he got there? What is he, RoboCop? The guy can barely string a proper English sentence together from what I’ve seen and read on/from him. That man shouldn’t be given a gun and Forcillo proved as much when he shot to kill six times a criminal who was already down after three initial shots. At the point that Yatim was contained (literally inside a container – with doors that can be closed from the outside), he became a police shooting victim.
“The number of shots it takes to neutralize the threat of an attacker is not known, but it usually takes more than one.”
No, actually, if anything pierces a vital organ the person often dies. But that’s diverting from the point.
“Single bullets don’t normally knock people over.”
That’s a fact, is it? It’s not. But in any case, there were three bullets and Yatim was knocked over even if you’re right. Yatim was down, contained, inside an enclosed space…then there were six more bullets.
My reading comprehension is fine. Your ability to make concrete arguments however, lacks. I can only wish that your ilk will be representing Forcillo at court instead of the powerful police union hired legal goons that will likely help him get off on murder.
your brother, while naked and in distress, attempted to attack a police officer with what could very easily be a lethal weapon. Despite the distress he was in, that is a lethal situation. The officer responded appropriately.
People like you seem to feel that mental illness or distress should be a get out of jail free card. Police have to respond to the ACTIONS, not the CAUSE of the actions.
EXCELLENT article. Finally someone presents what the mainstream media has refused to for so long.
Victim blaming. The favourite game of cops and their acolytes aside from killing people.
And here we are, the police fairies have now gotten wind of this article and will be here to flood the comments section to justify all of their murders. And here we go…
Here we go. The internet at it’s finest.
People sitting in the comfort of their own homes with the luxury of having a video – playing it, pausing it, playing it, pausing it – talking about it with whomever they’re with after already having convicted Forcillo in their minds, trying to point out “what the cop should have done”, “how they would have acted”, “how this is nothing more than murder” etc. It’s beyond me. Absolutely beyond me how anyone with no law enforcement experience can comment. Welcome to the internet age ladies and gentlemen. Where anyone with zero law enforcement experience knows how a situation “should” have been handled.
I think why is it only now that they are coming out with what really happened before the shooting. They should have come out with all the info and to why Sammy was shot and not after the fact.
My opinion
no, yatim was a useless POS to society and deserved his fait
Good shooting in my mind. He was told numerous times to drop his weapon, which he didn’t. Canada is way to easy on criminals in situations such as this. Vince Lee should have met the same fate when he beheaded an innocent victim on a Greyhound bus years ago. If this happened more often, perhaps criminals would take the hint and listen to police/RCMP when in situations like this!
This is yet another police fabrication. The fix is in for the trial of James Forcillo. First, they add an “additional” charge of attempted murder to the existing second degree murder charge. No one can be convicted of both attempted murder and second degree murder for the same action involving the death of only one person. This is an alternative charge, not an “additional” charge .Now they come up with a fantastical fabrication of the events leading to the murder of Sammy Yatim, which contradicts actual eye-witness accounts. As done many times prior, during Forcillo’s trial the police will take over the courtroom and intimidate the jurors into likely a acquittal or, at most, and attempted murder conviction with no jail time. The judges, the reluctant prosecutors and the politicians will all be in on the scam. They are not doing this because they care about Forcillo. They do this because ruling according to law would imply that non-whites have rights.
Thank you AlyssaMoh for your kind words about our loss, and your concern about your brother is very warranted.
when we moved her – when Michael moved her from Newfoundland … it was to better his life, to have his life end in this way is very difficult for us to even wrap our heads around.
I hope your brother never has to deal with the police
joanne – thank you again
Social_cure – your information is incorrect. attempted to attach a police officer with what could very easily be a lethal weapon? Talk to a witness, none of them saw ANYTHING in Michael’s hand, nor did any one see Michael advance toward the officer. However, they did see the officer exit his vehicle, draw his weapon before seeing Michael, walk in Michael’s direct and yell something then pull the trigger twice.
The second on was as Michael was falling, and on his knees !!
The SIU took ONLY the account of the subject officer – apparently the only officer on scene.
We can / will / and are in the process of proving all of the inaccuracies in this very flawed investigation – stay tuned.
And, guess what – police officers lie – and this one did.
Well that’s just like your opinion man. Can I borrow your tinfoil hat?
Why? To taint the investigation? This isn’t TV. It takes months to investigate a fatal incident properly, and the facts come out in court, not the media.
Suicide by cop. He should have jumped in front of the TTC and saved everyone else the trouble.
Again your reading comprenhension fails and you display ignorance about the subject.
Neutralizing the threat and inflicting a moral wound are not the same thing. As I said above, a person can be mortally wounded and still be a threat for some time, often several minutes. Furthermore, many shots don’t “pierce” a vital organ.
As for being knocked down from a single shot, the laws of physics don’t change no matter how angry you get. Sorry.
I’ve never tried to justify the second set of shots, I’ve simply reserved judgement, so this straw-man argument is irrelevant to my original point.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Unlike all the other garbage from people who think that they knew what Forcillo saw, based on a grainy video shot meters away. Or the garbage from people who think he had some kind of training or superpowers to fight a knife with bare hands.
How many times do you have to repeat your comments on this? Are you unemployed?
CSIS should hire you for your expert skills on drawing such “demonstrably” clear conclusions from a short grainy video, shot from a far distance and poor angle. Think of all the crime you could solve with poor surveillance footage.
So in your world it is guilty until proven innocent? Once charges are laid guilt is established and all further discussion is irrelevant? Or do you only apply that standard to police?
ISIS grew significantly as an organization owing to its participation in the Syrian Civil War and the strength of its leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.
towel heads had it covered for 5 years and they waited for americans to withdraw . Now they are on the loose , and that yatim boy is from the same country and city of damascus. White people have to react to this scenario . especially leaders who are breeding these people here in canada.
Yes anyone pointing a knife at a cop or member of the public is a threat. That is why it is called a weapon.
Were you there? Did you see how he was behaving after the first shots? If not all you have is your own irrelevant conjecture.
Ok I guess you were there. Why are you wasting your time here when you should be giving a witness statement.
a ghetto land for them might be an option too . with tight security .
Internet threats, real classy.
People always talk abou “de-escalation” tactics but nobody ever seems to be able to define what they are. Is there some sort of magic open sesame sentence you can use to get a mentally unstable person to drop a weapon? Repeated verbal commands to clearly “drop the knife” and “don’t step towards me” in plain English apparently failed,
What if it was her kid who was sexually assaulted by Yatim and almost slashed?
So if 5 cops opened fire at once all would have been OK in your eyes? Lol.
did not have to see how he was behaving … he had be shot and was on the ground. even if the officer perceived a threat before he shot (and they always say they did) there is NO chance this boy was a threat while lying on his back, still alone in a streetcar – and 3 bullets in his body ??? come on ??
“It would only take seconds for him to clear that distance once he started moving toward the officer.”
I agree. There is however, a massive difference between Yatim needing several seconds “once he started moving toward the officer” to clear the distance, and Yatim being “one leap” away, though, right?
And yes, the video footage is grainy and from a distance. What’s your point? It also happens to be the best and most relevant piece of evidence in the case, and one significant enough for the Crown to base a 2nd-degree murder charge off of. Whether they will, or even should, get a conviction out of it is anyone’s guess.
It is definitely not the best and most relevant piece of evidence. Only to the armchair experts, the real trial will have a lot more including footage from on the streetcar, statements from people who were actually in eyeball viewing distance of what happened, autopsy reports, ballistic reports, photos etc.
If that cell phone video is really the crowns best evidence I feel bad for them because their case will fall pretty flat quickly.
As for “one leap” vs “seconds to close distance” that is really just semantics. The bottom line is once he started moving toward the officer and still had the weapon in his hands he was a threat.
How do you know he was on the ground? How do you know how many bullets were in him? How do you know he wasn’t moving? Do you have evidence for these claims?
He didn’t put the knife near the cop because the cop rightfully shot him before he got close enough
Only thing you can take away from this is there is whole pile of facts that are not in the public domain yet. They won’t be until a jury is selected and a trial begins. Only then will anyone be able to construct a balance of evidence with the one thing neither Forcillo nor Yatim had the luxury of: time. If you have ever been in that situation you know what it takes. 99.9% of you are LUCKY to have never had to make those decisions. Perhaps all the keyboard commandos here can grow up a little and complain when there is actually something to complain about. And that won’t be until you hear the evidence and verdict with an unbiased ear. Check your mirror for hate before you say anything more.
Bullshit. Forcillo got caught up in the moment and he grossly overreacted. It’s plain as fucking day on the video. And if our police aren’t trained to handle a single knife bearing young adult when outnumbered 20 to 1 then we need to do some serious re-training. Every situation isn’t black and white, and just because one person in one situation can do one thing (Jumping 21 feet in 1.5 seconds), does NOT equate to every other situation. All that aside, who cares. I expect police to be able to deal with something like this. THAT is why I feel justified paying my taxes for their salaries, because they are putting themselves in harms way so that the public is safe. PERIOD. That means taking a risk that you might get a slash when you’re dealing with a fucked up situation so that you do the right thing, not take the most deadly option as your “go-to” move. This event was an embarrassment for Toronto, Canada, and Canadian police everywhere. It’s unfortunate that two lives had to be ruined from this event.
Is this a cheap attempt by Toronto Life to bring attention to itself by posting a fictitious, malicious and offensive distortion of the events that preceded the murder of Sammy Yatim? I wish Toronto Life would get some class. If this publication is so in need of attention, it may want to do real journalism, bringing light and enlightenment. Instead, they bring distortion and obscurity. It is truly a worthless publication.
You are welcome to your opinion, as at least you are expressing it in a calm and unoffensive manner. I doubt I will be able to change your mind, but it appears you don’t give me enough credit as an independent, thinking human being. My response to “The real james” was obviously personal, as the comment he made was personal, and nothing else. My opinions regarding the content of the article and the fault or lack thereof of Forcillo are capable of being impersonal, and the fact that I disagree with you does NOT make them inherently personal. I encourage you to re-read the article to discover that it was neither condemnation nor praise for Forcillo, and invite you to find the CBC interview regarding the piece online. It may very well illuminate the issue.
For the record, I’m on board with you in saying “I’m glad Sammy’s dead” is an entirely inappropriate and uninformed opinion. It marks the second post in this thread I’ve down-voted, feel free to keep track.
You can throw a knife. Don’t forget that. This is a tragic story, but please…wait for all the facts to be revealed. try to put yourself in this officers shoes, knowing what his training has been like, and having the only information that the victim had tried to slash a young woman’s throat. Real life is NOT like TV and movies. Try to understand both sides of the story.
It’s quite easy for people to pass judgement about this case when I doubt anyone of us have been put in a situation like this. I am sure we do not know all the facts. All I can say is that is Sammy did the things that are stated in this article then he was a danger to the people in the area of that streetcar. Did he deserve to die, probably not but he did deserve to get shot. Were the first 3 shots the ones that killed him or was it the last 6 shots. I do find it amazing how those who have a mental condition get away with utilizing that condition as justification for their actions. I believe that a police officer lost his life when a mentally challenged male jumped into a snow truck and ran the cop down. I don’t see any huge outcry for the police in these situations by anyone other than other police, because people say or think, “that is the cops job and it is a dangerous one”. I for one consider being a police officer as being a difficult job, you leave your house each day and you never know if you could be in the line of fire.
your disgusting
The bottom line is that the police used more force than needed. Where was Sammy going to go or who was he going to hurt when he was on a streetcar by himself surrounded by cops. The police did not even fire a warning shot or attempt to use a taser or teargas. The streetcar doors can also lock a person in. While the police waited for both tasers and or tear gas. The cop was not there to serve and protect he was there to serve his own trigger happiness. By the way 14 Division is the worse division in Toronto.
And if he was trying to kill anyone, why did he let everyone off the streetcar? Anyone who wants to kill or hurt someone doesnt do that.
youre full of shit ryan
I would like the public to answer this: In 2010 while I was riding the subway, a woman was beating up her child on the subway in view of everyone. I pulled the alarm and the police came and questioned her then let her go with the child. For the record, she was forcing her closed fist down his throat. Why did the police not respond to a child being abused on TTC but they shoot to kill another individual. Does this not alarm anyone?
This was a sad event for both sides..i feel sorry for the family in their loss of a sick one and the cop who has to live sick with the rest of his life. No one wins but justice was done. The cop if felt he was a threat to society he did what he did. They are given guns for a reason to protect and theyre trained to make a valid decision. He made his. Dont criticize him when hes protecting society please.
Get a life. You no idea what you are talking about.
We need more people like you to be our Police Officers and protectors. You know what to do and how to do it. So please go to your nearest Police Service and pick up an application. After several months of training you can take to the streets and do it your way. Good luck.
The media has previously has done nothing but portray Sammy as this sweet and innocent school boy, while making Forcillo look like a trigger happy douche. I don’t see how that is neutral one bit.
This case has brought out all of the so called “experts” People that know nothing about use of force or dealing with individuals facing mental illness, crisis or how dangerous an edged weapon is.
It is nice to actually hear more information about what actually was happening that night and to hear more from the side of the Toronto Police Service.
He took a step forward as seen in the video when he was warned not to. The point was to not allow him to further harm anyone His size is irrelevant. People suffering form certain mental illnesses can become very strong… so don’t ever underestimate someone because of their build or height or even gender.
Also, tell the girl who’s throat he had attempted to slash that he didn’t harm anyone.
You are absolutely right. Next time wait until the blade had punctured the skin a few inches before you react ……duh….
So at what time do you think he would have become a threat? enlighten us.
He didn’t “let” people off the streetcar. they managed to get off on their own, thanks to the driver opening the doors. If he didn’t want to hurt someone why was he brandishing a knife and threatening people??
Does that make you a thug-fairy? Here to flood the comments section to justify people’s reckless violence?
You’ve never had to deal with violent mentally ill people have you?
Good riddance. We wont know for sure but that cop may have saved a innocent life in the future. To all cops out there if I ever am holding my cock in my hand and a knife in the other threatening to kill people I give you full permission to light my ass up!
That’s okay. This case is probably as divisive as they get.
sometimes I wish they would delete troll accounts a lot sooner.
If you’ve had more than 10 posts deleted because they’re offensive/racist/spam..why continue to allow them to post?
And some people are anti government groupies, some people are just anti authority, and some people allow their own legal or mental health issues effect how they feel about this….
This whole case has lacked objectivity. So many people are ready to jump to conclusions before knowing all of the facts or having the slightest idea what went on that night. Like everyone else, Forcillo deserves due process or have so many of you forgotten that?
and this article doesn’t have a pro police agenda, it simply allows his side of the story to be told.
Would this kid be brandishing a knife along with their penis on public transit?
He did let people off the streetcar because he didnt grab anyone and hold them hostage, he didnt stab anyone. What I am saying is that if he wanted to hurt or stab or kill anyone he had more than enough time. The whole time he was with other riders he could of and the fact is that he did not. Someone who is violent uses the weapon quickly. I realize he was breaking the law and scaring people but it does not mean he should of been murdered by the police. The article makes him look like he was violent and that has not been proven.
What if the poster is unemployed. Is being unemployed a crime? Whu are you on here? Are you classist?
Not a crime, just a drag on the rest of us.
You can help us by clicking the little flag button in the top right corner above comments you’d like us to check out.
Did you even read the article? Yatim was acting erratically, and unpredictably. Despite what you see on TV, cops generally don’t fire “warning” shots. Not the greatest idea in a confined space surround by dozens of bystanders.
“That means taking a risk that you might get a slash when you’re dealing with a fucked up situation…”
Riiiiiggght. So if taking a slash means the cop’s jugular is severed and he bleeds out on the ground, how exactly is he supposed to protect anyone else? Yeah, it’s an unfortunate outcome for this young man and his family, but under the circumstances, it was appropriate. Sorry.
Jesus help me – why can’t people get this through their heads? Cops aren’t trick shot artists. You know when they shoot to disarm? In Hollywood movies. Trying to shoot the weapon out of someone’s hand, or shooting them in the arm or leg would be not only ridiculously impractical, it would also be incredibly dangerous for bystanders. The likelihood of missing and striking an unintended target is high. That’s why, as stated in the article, cops are trained to shoot for the centre mass (i.e.: chest) as it is the biggest target. Even if Yatim was shot in the leg, you realize if the femoral artery is pierced, the victim will bleed out completely in minutes?
If its a drag then I suggest you contact your esteemed Rob Ford, Kathleen Wynn and Harper and ask them why they are repeatedly refusing to create jobs for those who are unemployed. By the way unemployed persons pay taxes even those on social assistance so I am not sure why its such a drag for you.
No, you are absolutely right I can’t murder you for that, nor would I. However if you have a weapon in your hand and I know you’ve already threatened and assaulted other people and you’re at risk of getting away with said weapon, or you jump at me, or my family after I’ve been giving you several instructions to put your weapon down and to not move, I’d shoot too, just not nine times. This officer was initially right in my opinion to shoot Yatim. He was a lethal threat to himself and those around him. The cop should be punished in my opinion, because after the first three shots, everything else was excessive and wrong.
That is a threat Mr. Smith, and I am calling the police right now to report it. A couple of * * doesn’t hide your intent to intimidate an threaten to assault people. This is exactly how the stage gets set for violent confrontation… people that cannot control their emotions.
You may be right and maybe that’ll come out in the courts, however based on this article and the video the officer instructed him to drop the weapon and to not take another step. Remember the initial call to 911 was “a man tried to kill me”, the police’s initial reaction is to a lethal threat. I’d hope that if my life were threatened by a knife wielding mental person, or any person, that the police would take that 911 call seriously and be prepared to take a life.
Never mind threatened. The girl said he took a swipe at her throat. That’s attempt murder. He showed intent there and that means The officer has to assume that he is willing to go all the way.
The intent is pretty clear when the victim says he attempt to slash her throat.
Boil it down, and you have one person who initiated this chain of events by aggressively brandishing a knife and threatening the lives of other people. Sammy Yatim made that choice and refused to drop his weapon. The implications and consequences of those choices and actions are clear. I feel bad for all those involved. I wonder though, if Sammy had been successful in hurting, raping or killing one of the passengers (as his actions bear witness to), would people be less sympathetic towards the use of force against him? The fact remains that murder and attempted murder are both of the same mind. The only difference is a successful outcome. Finally, if we as a society want our police to be softer and more cavalier in the face of violence it should be done through legislative change, and through changes to procedures, rather than by the persecution of one individual as a scapegoat for an imperfect system. The officer did not set these events in motion, and the outcome of Yatim’s knife wielding mania could have been drastically different in ways we will never know. Sammy Yatim placed himself in a perilous situation by threatening the lives of others and then refusing to disarm himself in the face of law enforcement.
“It was murder” you say? I had no idea that you were the judge and jury in the matter! I know you must have been there to have such a clear understanding and if you were the police officer you would have done everything differently ….right. Seriously though, I do believe that pronouncement should come from a court of law after thorough exploration of all facets of the issue, not from a over-opinionated news blog troll. I too believe the further shots were likely excessive, but it doesn’t change the fact that the kid had his pecker out and was attempting to frighten or harm people with a knife. It is too bad you were not on the streetcar with him. I’m sure you could have intervened with your superior reasoning powers and had him singing kumbaya before the cops arrived. All from the comfort of your armchair.
If you want change to police use of force, you need to actually do something about it. Lobby and protest for meaningful reform instead of lambasting on a message board.
What do you do for a living? I bet I can make a blanket statement about everyone in your profession too.
Let’s hope you never need police assistance.
What a fantastic, well researched piece by James Forcillo’s lawyer….oh wait, this is Toronto Life? Between this article and the racist diatribe by Jan Wong on birthright citizenship http://www.torontolife.com/informer/columns/2014/05/20/jan-wong-canada-birthright-citizenship-nation-of-suckers/2/ Toronto Life is basically becoming a well designed Toronto Sun.
I think that
the tone in which this article was penned is very interesting. I think this
scenario can honestly be looked at in a variety of ways from both ends of the
spectrum. Though Sammy’s behavior was a real danger to others that night, I don’t
believe that the police tried to effectively diffuse the situation up until the
point of literally wiping him out. I’m positive that there could have been
other alternatives. This scenario is one that happens very often in our
community, maybe with different outcomes (not as severe as death) – that we
rarely hear about in the media. Yes, it’s been said that maybe Sammy was
suffering from mental or emotional issues – which is a huge factor, yet could
not possibly have been pinpointed in that moment when an officer or a group of
officers are in a position where making a split second decision is necessary. We
could go back and forth on this for years on end.
What I hate
most about this situation is that I almost get the vibe that the police force
is glazing over the extremities of the measures taken and in the aftermath
almost playing it like Sammy Yatim is now the poster child for what happens to
kids who behave recklessly and dangerously with a seemingly “bad ass” attitude.
That is not okay.
http://www.memoirsofanesha.com
He got what he deserved. If you were that worried about his mental health maybe you should have done something about it before he attacked a cop. Once a nutbag is already armed and dangerous, the first concern is removing that threat. Too bad Tim McLean never got that chance.
Alex, i really think YOU need some mental intervention – for a person to make this type of comment regarding ANY death – regardless of the circumstances … shows you have a lack of empathy, consideration, and compassion. I will never comment to you again – as i don’t waste my time on assholes. But you – need help !!!
sorry – forgot to mention that i feel very sorry for you – and i hope you get the help you need,
sincerely
In other words you have no intelligent response, so you’re going to make yourself feel better by attacking my character. Sure, why not. That’s completely consistent with everything else you’ve said on here, and to the media. Clearly reality is less important than your precious feelings.
Tasers should be given to all front line officers.
Nothing that kid did allowed any option other than lethal force. He made his own bed by his actions and lack of respect for authority. And paid. RIP kid, but don’t blame the police for doing precisely their job.
I didn’t find it particularly biased, but there was very little information about Sammy in the months, weeks or hours leading up to the killing. Mentally ill or not, I doubt he just all of a sudden pulled out his penis and knife, and this article was advertised as if it had the answers. I’ve learned almost nothing new about the actual incident from what I read two days after the killing.
Multiple witnesses on the bus said he did just all of a sudden pull out his penis and knife, so why would you doubt he did?
Those multiple witnesses on the streetcar have no idea what he went through before he got on (whether he had a perfectly normal day or broke up with his girlfriend) or, for instance, why he’d have a knife on him in the first place. Neither do we. That’s what you’d expect a journalist to find out. Although it’s possible it was cut from the story.
This entire article is shameful.
There is a publication ban on this entire case. This writer has come up with direct quotes taken directly from the proceedings and has embelished a LOT.
Fire a warning shot? You watch way too much TV
I think it’s a pretty big leap that he has a job at all
Regardless of how the incident actually transpired there are certain relevant issues that need no conjecture, most importantly many lives have been ruined. Yatim is dead, his family and friends devastated. Forcillo too will no doubt have many difficulties, even if exonerated, in his future as a police officer; the attention he and his family experience is no doubt very stressful and have long lasting impact.
Ultimately the more important issue is that the massively expensive systems we have constructed to protect us and keep our society civil and functional are failing us. Why are ordinary law-abiding citizens becoming distrustful of police as reflected by this article’s comments? Is it because we’re all secretly criminals who if left unchecked would start murdering and stealing? I doubt it, but I do think it’s because people are realizing that at any unfortunate moment you or a loved one could be in some type of crisis and no longer have a reasonable assumption that the police whose only mandate is “to serve and protect” are capable of doing just that.
The people on and around that streetcar should have been protected from Yatim just as Yatim should have been protected from himself, and regardless of if the officer was justified in his actions, the system failed. It failed on a successful outcome of making sure everyone came out of that situation unharmed and it failed the officer who felt he had to end someone’s life – and that is what people should be upset about – all other analysis is meaningless except to those directly involved.
Finally, I want to say I’m not really sure why this article was published over a year after the incident, on it’s face it seems more of an editorial at best. It’s easy to write a potentially inflammatory article on this single event but much more difficult to write an analysis on why these incidents involving police seem to be occurring more frequently, or why the public reactions to these types of events are becoming more polarized. Is it because more people are having more psychotic episodes, or that more of these types of incidents are being captured on film, or maybe the police are using more excessive force with lethal outcomes? I don’t know the answers but then again I’m not the journalist here. Maybe Toronto Life might like to take a stab at some of those questions instead of regurgitating the things we already know about this case.
Puff piece for the TO Police. Their guy is humanized over the victim and there are a lack of critical sources. TO Life readers are from white privilege, this is what they want to hear.
Toronto musician Matthew Barber wrote a song about Sammy Yatim’s death. Reminds me of Neil Young’s Ohio. “On the 505” – worth a listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqchvSNzSeM
I just want to clarify one fact from this excellent article. “Hollow point” bullets are not the horrible missiles most people think they are. The so-called “hollow points” expand instantly and slow down when in contact with the subject. They are employed by police officers and others permitted to carry self-defence firearms because their “hollow points” lower the risk to innocents who may be behind the target person. In a situation of imminent death or serious injury, in which a police officer is required to stop the threat, hollow-points stop the threat, but do not pass through the subject to harm bystanders. Also, they are less likely to kill the target person because the wound path is less invasive than it would be with standard copper-plated “ball” ammo. In my opinion, the subject officer fired until he stopped the threat, as he must. Television and movies give us the wrong idea about handguns. Actually, handguns are not powerful. In reality, drug or adrenaline-charged subjects can run and fight even with ten or more bullets in them–even one in the heart or some in the head.
Sammy was no angel and I’m sure it was frightening on that street car but he didnt have to be shot dead. Its a no brainer. Shot 9 times and still moving and a threat? get serious. Toronto cops and their goon boss have pushed their luck too many times. Need I bring up the G20? Bill Blair you were in charge of that regardless of how you lie and try to deny it.
Yah they pay taxes with money from working peoples taxes, and no im not a “classist” as you so eliquintly put it, just a guy that goes to work every day and pays his taxes and is fed up watching his tax dollars being spent on improving peoples lives that clearly have no interest in improving their own. And what politician wouldn’t want to say theyve increased employment? Unfortunatly it’s not as easy as snapping your fingers and saying now there are more jobs.
You need to educate yourself on why people end up unemployed, and or on welfare. Many people also worked every day for years some up to 35 yrs without welfare assistance and then they went on Employment Insurance and could not find a job or get hired. Not everyone who has worked for years has significant savings in the bank. You do not understand employment, unemployment, poverty. You do not understand marginalization. You need to educate yourself on these things. To add, just because someone is unemployed on on welfare it doesnt mean they are any less of a person than you or anyone else working. Being employed doesnt equate with being a good person.
Thanks Randolph. I’ve been unemployed before. I’ve collected unemployment before which is my right as one one that has contributed to that insurance. I don’t need your holier than though semantics either. At no point did I say not having a job makes you less of a person. I watched my 55 year old father struggle finding employment near the end of his career. He was unemployed for nearly 2 years when his unemployment ran out he did small cash jobs wherever he could doing whatever he could. At one point he worked on a farm….A menial task for an electronics engineer. The problem is much like yourself people hold themselves in too high of a regard and think that a lot of jobs are beneath them. Don’t sit there and say I need to educate myself. I graduated college and couldn’t find a job in my field and went and did an apprenticeship staring at 9 dollars an hour. While paying back soap and now a car loan which consumed 1 and a half weeks of income every month. Now I’m licensed and comfortable and contribute to society. I see people in my neighbourhood the same ones all the time. That never work and claim social injustice and that welfare isn’t enough. It’s not enough for a reason. Nobody wants that to be so comfortable that you don’t go out and find a job …any job. Before you put words in my mouth and pretend like I’m saying these outlandish things my be you should educate yourself on who the f*jk youre talking to first. You sent this post at 530am. I’m assuming you just got back from nuit Blanche and when you wake up after sleeping all day youll start to complain that you cant find a job and that youre being marginalized.
Wow such classy language. Its too bad you couldnt take some of your hard earned money and see if someone can help you learn to be less ill- mannered. Listen buddy, I was working from age 10 selling books at a flea market so that my family could eat a half-decent meal. At 14, I was sweeping parking lots, at 17 I was cleaning lockers at a sports complex on a midnight shift, art 19, I was cleaning a 3 level sports complex on my own, at 22 I was working at Consumers Distributing and other factories and warehouses and at 25 I was working as a potwasher for a hotel. I have worked in warehouses, sports complexes, factories, diners, office jobs, roofing, you name it I have done it and I have seen more shitty jobs that you can shake a stick at so dont give me your big bag of bullshit. It doesnt wash, you need to educate yourself buddy. You lack class cause youre classist, JUst too afraid to admit it.
At lest I showed enough class to edit out my vulgarity. I don’t remember asking you for a resume either? But thanks for providing it. I’ll be sure to forward it to and janitor/dishwasher jobs that I see for you. Don’t wave your frail little marxist finger at me and call me a classist……I repent
look for Require All Officers to Wear Bodycams When in Contact with the Public Change dot org
Look for, Require All Officers to Wear Webcams when in Contact with the Public
“a good shoot”? God, help us all.
nine shots. tasered and police picking up shells. nothing wrong with this picture. I guess locking the doors on him from the outside switch was not a option. I guess it would have taken away his clear shot.
As the witness stated, he had a knife in one hand and his penis in the other. What did you expect him to grab someone with?
If he “didn’t want to hurt anyone” he would have never brandished a knife on a streetcar and threaten anyone.
I’ve had a few interactions with the police and they didn’t end in my death, why?, because I wasn’t threatening them with a weapon, I’m not a know drug dealer with weapons offences, I don’t take swings at them or even go as far and call them pussys,.. maybe we would all be happy if our cops just carried lollipops and let the word go to hell. Sheesh.
Sitting down on a subway and having someone put a knife to your neck is…?
I’m glad this idiot is gone. With the system we have he most likely would have been on the street another day to threaten innocent people. As far as im concerned, the police office didn’t fire enough shots.
Yatim would have been better off staying in Syria. If Canadian life is so stressful, then all these sort of people going to Canada should be turned away for their own good. As for the pig – what do you expect from pigs? This story went nowhere after people found out Yatim isn’t a Muslim or Black, and was in fact quite White.
Be thankful you live in Canada. Pregnant women, seven and twelve year-old girls, downs-syndrome kids, pretty much anyone who isn’t white, ALL are fair game to uniformed murderers down here in the good ol’ ‘USA’.
As far as I’m concerned the good citizens in Wenzhou Province, Chine have got it right:
(1) Cops abuse citizens
(2) Citizens kill cops
(3) Case closed.
You’re sick.
This article shows how inaccurate TS was
Sammy tried to slash the girl throat. The girl and everybody got off the bus. They told the cops he tried to kill her. Cop understood: There is a guy with a knife who tried to kill someone already. The cop is innocent.
The cop shot the kid because he wanted to. There is no reason in the world for the kid to be dead, it was a cop who wanted to be Rambo just like on TV.