“I want my kids to grow up in a free country”: Philosopher and professor Jason Stanley on his decision to leave the US

Who: Jason Stanley, 55, philosopher, author and professor, Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy Known for: His expertise on propaganda and fascism Moving from: Yale University in July of 2025

You’re on faculty at Yale, but you’ve accepted an offer from the Munk School at U of T. This came after what you described as Columbia University’s capitulations to the US Department of Education. Please elaborate. I’d been sitting on this offer from the Munk School for a while, and the US was getting more and more fascist. With an authoritarian takeover, you have to band together, but the democratic institutions are reacting ­terribly—media, courts and universities are acquiescing. My colleagues and friends are terrified.

Do you fear persecution down the line? No, I welcome persecution. I would love to be arrested and for my grandkids to say, “My granddad got arrested for fighting fascism.” Though it wouldn’t be smart for the government to do that—they’d make me a martyr. I’m leaving because I have two Black Jewish kids, and I want them to grow up in a free country.

Related: Trump’s Loss, Toronto’s Gain—Meet the artists, professors, scientists and other luminaries ditching the US and moving north

Your parents were Jewish refugees to America. What does it mean for you to now be leaving your home country? It’s tragic. I love my home. But I don’t want to love my country like the Nazis loved Germany, as a piece of land with great men. I want to love my country the way Martin Luther King Jr. or George Washington did. America isn’t always a beacon of liberty. Black Americans don’t think of America as a place of freedom. But I’m also sad because I want my kids to grow up with the rich, textured culture of Black America, in a country that is shaped by their people. Canada doesn’t quite have that—as you saw with Kendrick Lamar’s scorching of Drake.

That was a decisive loss for Toronto. You got taken down! My 14-year-old was very upset about becoming “Not Like Us” by moving to Toronto.

You’re following your Yale colleagues and fellow fascism scholars Marci Shore and Timothy Snyder to Munk. What does Toronto stand to gain? The University of Toronto is poised to replace American universities as the top choice for students and academics from across the world. At Munk, we’ll be strategizing together, alongside journalists and politicians from countries with backsliding democracies, to study what’s going on in our countries and workshop the ways we can help. Related: “It started to feel a bit too much like Europe in the 1930s”—Music producer Bob Ezrin on why he moved from Nashville to Toronto

There’s no doubt that you are in high demand. Why choose to come here specifically? The Munk School wants to become a world centre for the study of authoritarianism and the defence of democracy. Canada seems like a good place to do that, because the country is committed to values of equality, tolerance and freedom. No one is going to dismantle the state and hand it over to oligarchs. No one’s terrified about going to the Canadian border. Unlike the US, you aren’t going to arrest non-Canadian professors for criticizing the government. I’m excited about joining a country whose values I share. That’s why I don’t see this as fleeing the United States.

You write that anti-intellectualism and attacks on education are integral to fascist politics. You often reference a line from Putin: “Wars are won by teachers.” Why does your work matter right now? I study the structures, strategies and tactics used to attack democracy worldwide. I’m analyzing and breaking down these situations so people know how to recognize and respond to threats. I’m teaching a course right now on fascism and patriarchy. As fellow philosopher Kate Manne has pointed out, the Trump administration is acting like a domestic abuser by saying, “Do what I say and then I’ll be placated.” There’s a lot of wishful thinking among well-meaning liberals, who are humouring disingenuous concerns about “wokeism” and antisemitism in universities. They don’t get that this is all a strategy. I’m trying to lay bare the reality for people. That’s why I speak out loudly. That’s why I say, “Bring it on, persecute me, put it on the front page of every newspaper.”

Much of your work transcends the ivory tower. What is the benefit of appealing to a general audience? My academic work helps show people how they are being manipulated. My book, The Politics of Language, is about redoing linguistic theory to centre social identity and emotion—because that’s what’s key in political speech. I can then explain that Trump is communicating the social identity of a working-class white voter. He’s going to destroy the working class, but what he’s communicating is, “Hey, I’m a macho guy like you.”

Canada has its own homegrown right-wing ideologues. Are you concerned about fascism seeping north, whether by will or by force? Yes. I’m coming to Toronto to join an international fight against authoritarianism, but I know Canada is a target. You have the same Trumpian forces seeking to destroy what makes you special. What’s happening in the US could happen anywhere, and Canada does often follow in America’s footsteps. The greater risk than Canada becoming the 51st state is that you’ll fall to the American value system—in which case you might as well be the 51st state. You’ll slash taxes. You’ll attack state media. You, too, will become a rapacious, dog-eat-dog society where the working class suffers and the rich rob the till using cultural fascist politics to justify it. There’s the possibility that you will become a tacky, pitiful, lesser version of us.

How do we prevent that from happening? By reminding yourselves who you are. You’re not the United States. I’m moving to Canada on the assumption and the hope that Canadians won’t travel the same route as the US. That you’ll remember what makes you special: universal health care, social welfare, high taxes on the wealthy, support for democratic institutions like universities, caring about one another as citizens. That’s my hope. Is it guaranteed? No. But in the US, we’ve probably already lost that fight.

Play the tape forward for me—where is America headed? It’s headed toward an embarrassing, cookie-cutter, comic-book version of an authoritarian country: salute the flag, this country is great, we’ve never done anything bad, etc. It’s not cool. At least the Nazis had Hugo Boss design their uniforms.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.