Jennifer Pan’s Revenge: The inside story of a golden child, the killers she hired, and the parents she wanted dead
Bich Ha and Huei Hann Pan were classic examples of the Canadian immigrant success story. Hann was raised and educated in Vietnam and moved to Canada as a political refugee in 1979. Bich (pronounced “Bick”) came separately, also a refugee. They married in Toronto and lived in Scarborough. They had two kids, Jennifer, in 1986, and Felix, three years later, and found jobs at the Aurora-based auto parts manufacturer Magna International, Hann as a tool and die maker and Bich making car parts. They lived frugally. By 2004, Bich and Hann had saved enough to buy a large home with a two-car garage on a quiet residential street in Markham. He drove a Mercedes-Benz and she a Lexus ES 300, and they accumulated $200,000 in the bank.
Their expectation was that Jennifer and Felix would work as hard as they had in establishing their lives in Canada. They’d laid the groundwork, and their kids would need to improve upon it. They enrolled Jennifer in piano classes at age four, and she showed early promise. By elementary school, she’d racked up a trophy case full of awards. They put her in figure skating, and she hoped to compete at the national level, with her sights set on the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver until she tore a ligament in her knee. Some nights during elementary school, Jennifer would come home from skating practice at 10 p.m., do homework until midnight, then head to bed. The pressure was intense. She began cutting herself—little horizontal cuts on her forearms.
As graduation from Grade 8 loomed, Jennifer expected to be named valedictorian and to collect a handful of medals for her academic achievements. But she received none, and she wasn’t named valedictorian. She was stunned. What was the point in trying if no one acknowledged your efforts? And yet, instead of expressing her devastation, she told anyone who asked that she was perfectly fine—something she called her “happy mask.”
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A close observer might have noticed that Jennifer seemed off, but I never did. I was a year behind her at Mary Ward Catholic Secondary in north Scarborough. As far as Catholic schools go, it was something of an anomaly: it had the usual high academic standards and strict dress code, mixed with a decidedly bohemian vibe. It was easy to find your tribe. Bright kids and arty misfits hung out together, across subjects, grades and social groups. If you played three instruments, took advanced classes, competed on the ski team and starred in the school’s annual International Night—a showcase of various cultures around the world—you were cool. Outsiders were embraced, geekiness celebrated (anime club meetings were constantly packed) and precocious ambition supported (our most famous alumnus, Craig Kielburger, pretty much ran his charity, Free the Children, from the halls of Mary Ward).
It was the perfect community for a student like Jennifer. A social butterfly with an easy, high-pitched laugh, she mixed with guys, girls, Asians, Caucasians, jocks, nerds, people deep into the arts. Outside of school, Jennifer swam and practised the martial art of wushu.
At five foot seven, she was taller than most of the other Asian girls at the school, and pretty but plain. She rarely wore makeup; she had small, round wire-frame glasses that were neither stylish nor expensive; and she kept her hair straight and unstyled.
Jennifer and I both played the flute, though she was in the senior stage band and I was in junior. We would interact in the band room, had dozens of mutual acquaintances and were friends on Facebook. In conversation, she always seemed focused on the moment—if you had her attention, you had it completely.
I discovered later that Jennifer’s friendly, confident persona was a façade, beneath which she was tormented by feelings of inadequacy, self-doubt and shame. When she failed to win first place at skating competitions, she tried to hide her devastation from her parents, not wanting to add worry to their disappointment. Her mother, Bich, noticed something was amiss and would comfort her daughter at night, when Hann was asleep, saying, “You know all we want from you is just your best—just do what you can.”
She had been a top student in elementary school, but midway through Grade 9, she was averaging 70 per cent in all subjects with the exception of music, where she excelled. Using old report cards, scissors, glue and a photocopier, she created a new, forged report card with straight As. Since universities didn’t consider marks from Grade 9 and 10 for admission, she told herself it wasn’t a big deal.
Hann was the classic tiger dad, and Bich his reluctant accomplice. They picked Jennifer up from school at the end of the day, monitored her extracurricular activities and forbade her from attending dances, which Hann considered unproductive. Parties were off limits and boyfriends verboten until after university. When Jennifer was permitted to attend a sleepover at a friend’s house, Bich and Hann dropped her off late at night and picked her up early the following morning. By age 22, she had never gone to a club, been drunk, visited a friend’s cottage or gone on vacation without her family.
Presumably, their overprotectiveness was born of love and concern. To Jennifer and her friends, however, it was tyranny. “They were absolutely controlling,” said one former classmate, who asked not to be named. “They treated her like shit for such a long time.”
The more I learned about Jennifer’s strict upbringing, the more I could relate to her. I grew up with immigrant parents who also came to Canada from Asia (in their case Hong Kong) with almost nothing, and a father who demanded a lot from me. My dad expected me to be at the top of my class, especially in math and science, to always be obedient, and to be exemplary in every other way. He wanted a child who was like a trophy—something he could brag about. I suspected the achievements of his siblings and their children made him feel insecure, and he wanted my accomplishments to match theirs. I felt like a hamster on a wheel, sprinting to meet some sort of expectation, solely determined by him, that was always just out of reach. Hugs were a rarity in my house, and birthday parties and gifts from Santa ceased around age 9. I was talented at math and figure skating, though my father almost never complimented me, even when I excelled. He played down my educational achievements, just like his parents had done with him—the prevailing theory in our culture being that flattery spoils ambition.
Jennifer met Daniel Wong in Grade 11. He was a year older, goofy and gregarious, with a big laugh, a wide smile and a little paunch around his waistline. He played trumpet in the school band and in a marching band outside of school. Their relationship was platonic until a band trip to Europe in 2003. After a performance in a concert hall filled with smokers, Jennifer suffered an asthma attack. She started panicking, was led outside to the tour bus and almost blacked out. Daniel calmed her down, coaching her breathing. “He pretty much saved my life,” she later said. “It meant everything.” That summer, they started dating.
Of Jennifer’s friends, I knew Daniel best. We met in my Grade 9 year at Mary Ward, and he would come over to my house nearly every day after school to watch TV and play Halo on my Xbox. He would often stick around and eat dinner with my family. Dan spoke to my parents in Cantonese, and my dad would regularly buy him Zesty Cheese Doritos—his favourite. When Daniel was in his final year at Mary Ward, we drifted apart, and midway through the year, he transferred to Cardinal Carter Academy, an arts school in North York. He was falling behind at Mary Ward, and, unbeknownst to me, he had been charged with trafficking after cops found half a pound of weed in his car.
Jennifer’s parents assumed their daughter was an A student; in truth, she earned mostly Bs—respectable for most kids but unacceptable in her strict household. So Jennifer continued to doctor her report cards throughout high school. She received early acceptance to Ryerson, but then failed calculus in her final year and wasn’t able to graduate. The university withdrew its offer. Desperate to keep her parents from digging into her high school records, she lied and said she’d be starting at Ryerson in the fall. She said her plan was to do two years of science, then transfer over to U of T’s pharmacology program, which was her father’s hope. Hann was delighted and bought her a laptop. Jennifer collected used biology and physics textbooks and bought school supplies. In September, she pretended to attend frosh week. When it came to tuition, she doctored papers stating she was receiving an OSAP loan and convinced her dad she’d won a $3,000 scholarship.
She would pack up her book bag and take public transit downtown. Her parents assumed she was headed to class. Instead, Jennifer would go to public libraries, where she would research on the Web what she figured were relevant scientific topics and fill her books with copious notes. She’d spend her free time at cafés or visiting Daniel at York University, where he was taking classes. She picked up a few day shifts as a server at East Side Mario’s in Markham, taught piano lessons and later tended bar at a Boston Pizza where Daniel worked as a kitchen manager. At home, Hann often asked Jennifer about her studies, but Bich told him not to interfere. “Let her be herself,” she’d say.
In order to keep the charade from unravelling, Jennifer lied to her friends, too. She even amplified her dad’s meddling ways, telling one friend, falsely, that her father had hired a private investigator to follow her.
After Jennifer had pretended to be enrolled at Ryerson for two years, Hann asked her if she was still planning to switch to U of T. She said yes, she’d been accepted into the pharmacology program. Her parents were thrilled. She suggested moving in with her friend Topaz downtown for three nights a week. Bich sympathized with Jennifer’s long commute each day and convinced Hann that it was a good idea.
Jennifer never stayed with Topaz. Monday through Wednesday, she stayed with Daniel and his family at their home in Ajax, a large house on a quiet, tree-lined street. Jennifer lied to Daniel’s parents as well, telling them her parents were okay with the arrangement and brushing off their repeated requests to meet Hann and Bich over dim sum.
After two more years, it was theoretically time to graduate from U of T. Jennifer and Daniel hired someone they found online to create a fake transcript, full of As. When it came to the ceremony, Jennifer told her parents that the extra-large class size meant there weren’t enough seats—graduating students were allowed only one guest each, and she didn’t want one of her parents to feel left out, so she gave her ticket to a friend.
Jennifer developed a mental strategy to deal with her lies. “I tried looking at myself in the third person, and I didn’t like who I saw,” she later said, “but rationalizations in my head said I had to keep going—otherwise I would lose everything that ever meant anything to me.”
Eventually, Jennifer’s fictional academic career began to collapse. While supposedly studying at U of T, she had told her parents about an exciting new development: she was volunteering at the blood-testing lab at SickKids. The gig sometimes required late-night shifts on Fridays and weekends. Perhaps, she suggested, she should spend more of the week at Topaz’s. But Hann noticed something odd: Jennifer had no uniform or key card from SickKids. So the next day, he insisted that they drop her off at the hospital. As soon as the car stopped, she sprinted inside, and Hann instructed Bich to follow her. Realizing she was being tailed by her mom, Jennifer hid in the waiting area of the ER for a few hours until they left. Early the next morning, they called Topaz, who groggily told the truth: Jennifer wasn’t there. When Jennifer finally came home, Hann confronted her. She confessed that she didn’t volunteer at SickKids, had never been in U of T’s pharmacology program and had indeed been staying at Daniel’s—though she neglected to tell them that she’d never graduated high school and that her time at Ryerson was also complete fiction.
Bich wept. Hann was apoplectic. He told Jennifer to get out and never come back, but Bich convinced him to let their daughter stay. They took away her cellphone and laptop for two weeks, after which she was only permitted to use them in her parents’ presence and had to endure surprise checks of her messages. They forbade her from seeing Daniel. They ordered her to quit all of her jobs except for teaching piano and began tracking the odometer on the car.
Jennifer was madly in love with Daniel, and lonely, too. For two weeks, she was housebound, her mother by her side nearly constantly—though Bich told Jennifer where her dad had hidden her phone, so she could periodically check her messages. In February 2009, she wrote on her Facebook page: “Living in my house is like living under house arrest.” She also posted a note: “No one person knows everything about me, and no two people put together knows everything about me…I like being a mystery.” Over the spring and summer, she snuck calls with Daniel on her cellphone at night, whispering in the dark.
Eventually, she was allowed some measure of freedom, and she enrolled in a calculus course to get her final high school credit. Still, in defiance of her parents’ orders, she visited Daniel in between piano lessons. One night, she arranged her blankets to look like she was asleep, then snuck out to Daniel’s house. But she forgot that she had her mother’s wallet. In the morning, Bich went into the room to get it and discovered Jennifer was gone. Bich and Hann ordered Jennifer to come home immediately. They demanded that she apply to college—she could still be a pharmacy lab technician or nurse—and told her that she had to cut off all contact with Daniel.
Jennifer resisted, but Daniel had grown weary of their secret romance. She was 24 and still sneaking around, terrified of her parents’ tirades but not willing to leave home. He told her to figure out her life, and he broke off their relationship. Jennifer was heartbroken. Shortly thereafter, she learned that Daniel was seeing a girl named Christine. In an attempt to win back his attention and discredit Christine, she concocted a bizarre tale. She told him a man had knocked on her door and flashed what looked like a police badge. When she opened the door, a group of men rushed in, overpowered her and gang-raped her in the foyer of her house. Then a few days later, she said, she received a bullet in an envelope in her mailbox. Both instances, she alleged, were warnings from Christine to leave Daniel alone.
In the spring of 2010, Jennifer reconnected with Andrew Montemayor, a friend from elementary school. According to Jennifer’s later evidence in court, he had boasted about robbing people at knifepoint in the park near his home (a claim he denies). When Jennifer told him about her torturous relationship with her dad, Montemayor confessed that he’d once considered killing his own father. The notion intrigued Jennifer, who began imagining how much better her life would be without her father around. Montemayor introduced Jennifer to his roommate, Ricardo Duncan, a goth kid with black nail polish. Over bubble tea in between her piano lessons, according to Jennifer, they hatched a plan for Duncan to murder her father in a parking lot at his work, a tool and die company called Kobay Enstel, near Finch and McCowan. She says she gave Duncan $1,500, earnings from her piano classes, and they agreed to connect later by phone to arrange the date and time of the hit. But Duncan stopped answering her calls, and by early July, Jennifer realized she had been ripped off. (Duncan says she called him in early July, hysterical, requesting that he come and kill her parents. He said he felt offended and said no, and that the only money she gave him was $200 for a night out, which he promptly returned.)
According to the police, it was at this point that Daniel and Jennifer, who were back in contact and exchanging daily flirty texts, devised an even more sinister plan: they’d hire a hit on Bich and Hann, collect the estate—Jennifer’s portion totalling about $500,000—and live together, unencumbered by her meddling parents. Daniel gave Jennifer a spare iPhone and SIM card, and connected her with an acquaintance named Lenford Crawford, whom he called Homeboy. Jennifer asked what the going rate was for a contract killing. Crawford said it was $20,000, but for a friend of Daniel’s it could be done for $10,000. Jennifer was careful to use her iPhone for crime-related conversations and her Samsung phone for everything else. On Halloween night, Crawford visited the Pans’ neighbourhood—probably to scout the site. Kids in costume streaming up and down the street provided the perfect cover.
On the afternoon of November 2, the plan took an unexpected turn. Daniel texted Jennifer, saying that he felt as strongly about Christine as she did about him. Suddenly everything was thrown into question. She texted Daniel: “So you feel for her what I feel for you, then call it off with Homeboy.” Daniel responded, “I thought you wanted this for you?” Jennifer replied to Daniel, “I do, but I have nowhere to go.” Daniel wrote back: “Call it off with Homeboy? You said you wanted this with or without me.” Jennifer: “I want it for me.” The next day, Daniel texted, “I did everything and lined it all up for you.” It seemed Daniel wanted out of the arrangement. But within hours, they’d reverted to their old ways, texting and flirting. Later that day, Crawford texted Jennifer, “I need the time of completion, think about it.” Jennifer wrote back, “Today is a no go. Dinner plans out so won’t be home in time.” Over the following week, there was a flurry of text and phone conversations between Jennifer, Daniel and Crawford. On the morning of November 8, Crawford texted Jennifer: “After work ok will be game time.”
That evening, Jennifer watched Gossip Girl and Jon and Kate Plus Eight in her bedroom while Hann read the Vietnamese news down the hall before heading to bed around 8:30 p.m. Bich was out line dancing with a friend and cousin. Felix, who was studying engineering at McMaster University, wasn’t home. At approximately 9:30 p.m., Bich came home from her line dancing class, changed into her pyjamas and soaked her feet in front of the TV on the main floor. At 9:35 p.m., a man named David Mylvaganam, a friend of Crawford’s, called Jennifer, and they spoke for nearly two minutes. Jennifer went downstairs to say good night to Bich and, as Jennifer later admitted, unlock the front door (a statement she eventually retracted). At 10:02 p.m., the light in the upstairs study switched on—allegedly a signal to the intruders—and a minute later, it switched off. At 10:05 p.m., Mylvaganam called again, and he and Jennifer spoke for three and a half minutes. Moments later, Crawford, Mylvaganam and a third man named Eric Carty walked through the front door, all three carrying guns. One pointed his gun at Bich while another ran upstairs, shoved a gun at Hann’s face and directed him out of bed, down the stairs and into the living room.
Upstairs, Carty confronted Jennifer outside her bedroom door. According to Jennifer, Carty tied her arms behind her using a shoelace. He directed her back inside, where she handed over approximately $2,500 in cash, then to her parents’ bedroom, where he located $1,100 in U.S. funds in her mother’s nightstand, and then finally to the kitchen to search for her mother’s wallet.
“How could they enter the house?” Bich asked Hann in Cantonese. “I don’t know, I was sleeping,” Hann replied. “Shut up! You talk too much!” one of the intruders yelled at Hann. “Where’s the fucking money?” Hann had just $60 in his wallet and said as much. “Liar!” one man replied, and pistol-whipped him on the back of the head. Bich began weeping, pleading with the men not to hurt their daughter. One of the intruders replied, “Rest assured, she is nice and will not be hurt.”
Carty led Jennifer back upstairs and tied her arms to the banister, while Mylvaganam and Crawford took Bich and Hann to the basement and covered their heads with blankets. They shot Hann twice, once in the shoulder and then in the face. He crumpled to the floor. They shot Bich three times in the head, killing her instantly, then fled through the front door.
Jennifer somehow managed to reach her phone, tucked into the waistband of her pants, and dial 911 (despite, as she later claimed, having her hands tied behind her back). “Help me, please! I need help!” she cried. “I don’t know where my parents are! … Please hurry!” At the 34-second mark of the call, the unexpected happens: Hann can be heard moaning in the background. He had awoken, covered in blood, with his dead wife’s body next to him, and crawled up the stairs to the main floor. Jennifer yelled down that she was calling 911. Hann stumbled outside, screaming wildly, and encountered his startled neighbour, who was about to leave for work, in the driveway next door. The neighbour called 911. Police and an ambulance arrived at the scene minutes later, and Hann was rushed to a nearby hospital, then airlifted to Sunnybrook.
York Regional Police interviewed Jennifer just before 3 a.m. She told them that the men had entered the house looking for money, tied her to the banister, and taken her parents to the basement and shot them. Two days later, the police brought her in again to give a second statement. At their request, she showed how she contorted her body to get her phone—a flip phone—out of her waistband to place a call while tied to a banister.
Holes began to emerge in Jennifer’s story. For instance, the keys to Hann’s Lexus were in plain view by the front door. If it were indeed a home invasion, why did the intruders not take the car? And why didn’t they have a crowbar to get in, or a backpack to carry the loot, or zip ties to restrain the residents? And most important: why would they shoot two witnesses but leave one unharmed? The police assigned a surveillance team to monitor Jennifer’s movements.
By November 12, Hann had woken up from his three-day induced coma. He had a broken bone near his eye, bullet fragments lodged in his face that doctors couldn’t remove and a shattered neck bone—the bullet had grazed the carotid artery. Remarkably, he remembered everything, including two troubling details: he recalled seeing his daughter chatting softly—“like a friend,” he said—with one of the intruders, and that her arms were not tied behind her back while she was being led around the house.
On November 22, the police brought Jennifer in for a third interview. This one developed a different tone: the detective, William Goetz, said that he knew she was involved in the crime. He knew that she had lied to him, and said it was in her best interest to fess up. Jennifer, hunched over and sobbing, asked repeatedly, “But what happens to me?”
Over nearly four hours, Jennifer spun out an absurd explanation. She said the attack had been an elaborate plan to commit suicide gone horribly wrong. She had given up on life but couldn’t manage to kill herself, so she hired Homeboy, whose real name she claimed not to know, to do it for her. In September, however, her relationship with her father had suddenly improved, and she decided to call off the hit. But somehow wires got crossed, and the men ended up killing her parents instead of her. Police arrested Jennifer on the spot. In the spring of 2011, relying on analysis of cellphone calls and texts, they nabbed Daniel, Mylvaganam, Carty and Crawford, and charged all five with first-degree murder, attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder.
The trial began on March 19, 2014, in Newmarket. It was expected to last six months but stretched for nearly 10. More than 50 witnesses testified and more than 200 exhibits were filed. Jennifer was on the stand for seven days, bobbing and weaving in a futile attempt to explain away the damning text messages with Crawford and Daniel and the calls with Mylvaganam, and desperately trying to convince the jury that while she had indeed ordered a hit on her father in August 2010, three months later she had wanted nothing of the sort.
Before the jury delivered the verdict, Jennifer appeared almost upbeat, playfully picking lint off her lawyer’s robes. When the guilty verdict was delivered, she showed no emotion, but once the press had left the courtroom, she wept, shaking uncontrollably. For the charge of first-degree murder, Jennifer received an automatic life sentence with no chance of parole for 25 years; for the attempted murder of her father, she received another sentence of life, to be served concurrently. Daniel, Mylvaganam and Crawford each received the same sentence. Carty’s lawyer fell ill during the trial, and his trial was postponed to early 2016. The judge granted two non-communication orders, one banning communication among the five defendants until Carty’s trial is complete, and a second between Jennifer and her family, at the latter’s request, effectively preventing Jennifer from speaking to her father or brother ever again. Her lawyer addressed the order in court. “Jennifer is open to communicating with her family if they wanted to,” he said.
Hann and Felix both wrote victim impact statements. “When I lost my wife, I lost my daughter at the same time,” Hann wrote. “I don’t feel like I have a family anymore. […] Some say I should feel lucky to be alive but I feel like I am dead too.” He is now unable to work due to his injuries. He suffers anxiety attacks, insomnia and, when he can sleep, nightmares. He is in constant pain and has given up gardening, working on his cars and listening to music, since none of those activities bring him joy anymore. He can’t bear to be in his house, so he lives with relatives nearby. Felix moved to the East Coast to find work with a private technology company and escape the stigma of being a member of the Pan family. He suffers from depression and has become closed off. Hann is desperate to sell the family home, but no one will buy it. At the end of his statement, Hann addressed Jennifer. “I hope my daughter Jennifer thinks about what has happened to her family and can become a good honest person someday.”
This was a difficult story for me to write. It’s complicated to report on a murder when you were once friends with the people involved. Late last year, I drove up to the correctional facility in Lindsay a few times to see Daniel. In the harsh, white, empty halls of the massive building, even separated from me by a large pane of Plexiglas, he still seemed so familiar—a little pudgy, happy, cracking jokes. His favourite colour was always orange, but he tugged on his bright pumpkin jumpsuit and said he’d cooled on the colour lately, then broke into a big laugh. He asked how I was doing, and I told him my parents had recently separated, and how it had been tough on me. He said that if he ever got out, he would give my dad relationship advice. I asked him if he ever wonders whether, if even little things had gone just slightly differently, he wouldn’t be in prison. He shook his head and said thinking like that could drive a person mad. He said the best thing for him was to focus on reality: that he was in jail, and he had to make the best of it. Daniel said he’d bonded with the Cantonese speakers in his block and was helping them adjust to life inside. When I asked him about the case, he clammed up, citing limitations set by his lawyer. He intends to appeal, as do Jennifer, Mylvaganam and Crawford. Presuming they lose, they’ll be eligible for parole in 2035. Jennifer will be 49, Daniel 50.
A number of questions linger. Was Jennifer mentally ill? A chemical imbalance would certainly make the ordeal easier to understand. But her lawyers didn’t attempt to present her as unfit to stand trial. That leaves a harder conclusion: that Jennifer was in complete control of her faculties. That she wanted Bich and Hann dead and put a plan into action to make it happen. That the guilt of years of her snowballing lies and the shame when it all came out drove her to murder.
It’s not that simple, though. I believe that on some level, Jennifer loved her parents. “I needed my family to be around me. I wanted them to accept me; I didn’t want to live alone […] I didn’t want them to abandon me either,” she said on the stand. She was hysterical on the phone when she called 911 and teared up in the courthouse while describing the sound of her parents being shot. Yet how do you believe a liar? Jennifer lied in all three statements she gave to police. Under oath, she was repeatedly caught in tiny half-truths.
Some think her parents were to blame. “I think they pushed her to that point,” a friend of Jennifer’s told me. “I honestly don’t think Jennifer is evil. This is just two people she hated.” In February, I submitted separate formal requests to interview Jennifer and Daniel. They declined. The result is the purgatory of not knowing what my former schoolmates were thinking, feeling and hoping for. And it’s likely I never will.
This is so biased. I hope you aren’t trying to get us to pity the girl and blame the father for pushing her to this point. Every child coming from an immigrant family experiences those pressures. It doesn’t mean you should go and have your parents killed. She and the rest of those guys got what they deserved.
I appreciate your attempt to provide insight into both sides of the story but I have absolutely no sympathy for the perpetrators. I only feel sorry for the remaining family members. I also have an issue with your last few sentences: “Some think her parents were to blame.” Who are they? How many people? Are they all Jennifer’s friends? I agree with the person that commented below, that’s extremely biased. This was deliberately planned cold-blooded murder. Whoever thinks otherwise is delusional.
Her parents only wanted what was best for her, and yes, those pressures could be intense, but it doesn’t mean she had to plan out & execute an entire crime scene. It’s insane and delusional of her to fabricate her whole life story & accomplishments just for own selfish interests, esp. lying about her murdering her own parents all to stay with someone who is no longer interested in her. If murder isn’t evil, I don’t know what is. Whether she hated her parents or not, it does not mean she had to end their lives.
Of course, every parent wants their child to succeed and strive to be the best, but I am sure they would’ve been understanding if she had been honest with them in the first place. For all the lies she has told for so many years and the heartache she put her parents through, simply being grounded with a laptop & cellphone being taken away doesn’t seem enough of a punishment.
It’s sad to see what’s done is already done, and that this was the result of their actions. Whether they were a friend or an acquaintance, they were fully conscious of their actions and the consequences it could potentially bring. Therefore, I have zero sympathy for Jennifer & those convicted. If anything, I feel very sympathetic for her dad – he literally lost everything at that one moment, i can only imagine how hurt he is and how he has to relive that moment everyday through reality.
I think you’re confusing explanation with excuse. It’s good to get insight into why this happened and what drove Jennifer. But not once did I think her parents were to blame for their own deaths.
This is a story coming from the perspective of a friend of Jennifer’s who was writing it based on her own experience, first hand knowledge, and public information. The writer was clear that she herself is left with many questions, and the piece is not presuming to be the be all, end all of the saga. So unless you can write something better and different, we don’t need to hear how it is seeking sympathy for the murdered because that is not at all what I got from it.
It’s too easy to place all the blame on Jennifer Pan in this case. Making obsessive and unreasonable demands of your children and subjecting them to oppressive controls is a serious form of child abuse. The proof of that is the now shattered Pan family.
Children should be encouraged to follow their own dreams, not pressured into satisfying their parents desire to “come up in the world”.
How do you even ground someone in their 20s? Kick them out of the house.
Lol how do you have trouble getting into Ryerson?
The fact that she plotted to and carried out the killing of her parents are all on her. Yes, I agree, unreasonable parental controls can be abusive. But a reasonable first step is to communicate the problem, not forge your report cards. We would never know if her parents could’ve become supportive of her shortcomings because she never even came clean to them until it had snowballed into a disaster. If all else failed, she could’ve moved away. Her excuse was that she wanted to stay close to her family and not get abandoned. Well how does that even escalate to murder? She was manipulative, she was a pathological liar. Her parents may be demanding but her decisions are inexcusable.
Fair comment but you can’t assume that the excessive demands of her parents hadn’t already damaged her emotionally and mentally before she decided to do the unthinkable. I’d say it’s pretty obvious she had “cracked” under parental pressure by that time. I’m amazed her attorney didn’t recognize this pathology and frame his defense around it.
I think you’re misunderstanding something. From what I read, she received early acceptance to ryerson but then she failed calc and the acceptance was retracted. I do agree that it’s pretty hard to not get into ryerson or even to fail a course. I mean, she must have been putting no effort into it if she was a straight b’s student.
He may have but I’m not sure. Regardless, it just wasn’t sufficient enough to dismiss something like murder. She also lied quite a few times under oath so I think she lost all her credibility.
I completely agree with everything you are saying here, and it’s time that we start to recognize that these are damaged and broken people we are raising in many (not all) immigrant communities. Teaching them conditional love that they will get only upon getting the highest grades, not showing them tenderness unless they do what we want, and basically emotionally abusing them their whole lives.
What she did was wrong, but we have to recognize that her actions were due in part to her upbringing. Nothing happens in a vacuum, and a killer is not just made out of the blue.
I really don’t see how anything her parents did was considered “excessive.” Their expectations are common within an Asian household (and any other household that values discipline and hard work) — to call it child abuse is hyperbolic and unfair.
Most children from immigrant families grow up under those pressures. Speaking as one, I know what it feels like. But to order a hit on your own parents? Coupled with her pathological lying, it almost sounds like she lacked something fundamental as a human being. No one knew who she truly was, let alone the writer of this article. Friends sounds like an overstatement here — the only person the writer was friends with was a facade. The Jennifer everyone thought they knew didn’t exist. She lied about everything she was for years. The only thing we can trust is the reality that she planned for her parents to be killed. She’s exactly where she belongs, where she can’t hurt anyone else.
Boris, I think you will be able to find value in this article as well. Those of us who grow up seeing this and knowing what it’s like need to start speaking up about the abuses we face and how it is damaging an entire generation of people.
https://medium.com/@nadiaz/the-secret-lives-of-immigrants-6d924ab30eda
She was an adult when she made the decision to have her parents killed. Whatever led her to that point, she became the responsible party when she chose to carry on with the plan. She had every opportunity to stop or to attempt to talk to her parents truthfully instead of lying for all those years. Whatever our opinions about parenting are, the reality is that she calculatingly planned to have her parents murdered in cold blood.
As a child who was born in China, and raised here by two immigrant parents, I have much to relate to the beginning of her story. At times, I could completely relate to her feeling under the pressure, or feeling like she had failed to reach her expectations. I could understand the urge to fake marks, forge signatures, and even lie at times as I’m sure every child has in his or her past. In fact, I go as far as understanding the desperation to resort to means such as self-harm, which I have learned to overcome over a span of about 4 years.
However, there is no doubt that this girl is lacking something that makes us humane and functional. I feel that this girl, even without the pressures of having strict parents, would have been in trouble in the future because it seems that she lacks the fundamental basis for conscience. It’s extremely scary to think that she had no voice in her mind whatsoever to say that perhaps killing her parents might be very very wrong?! Fuelled by negative influences from friends and her so called boyfriend: it’s a toxic mixture.
I feel that this is the best for her, to be kept away behind bars where she can’t threaten the lives of others. Because if she can so easily wish death upon loving, caring, and providing parents, what would she do to those who really do wrong her in the future? I cannot imagine.
Totally agreed that this article is so biased, who would be to blame other than herself? She had been lying about everything since she was at a young age, to her parents, her boyfriend, friends. I agreed that her parents were control freaks but she should be honest with them. What they had done to her was to take away her phone and laptop and lock her in the house after knowing that she was a liar. This was unbelievable and she deserved to receive life sentence and I hope that she will never get freed.
A very revealing essay indeed. Thanks
It appears that you and I are the only commenters (so far) that have any empathy for a child damaged beyond repair by her parent’s obsessive demands.
I would have thought it obvious that Jennifer was so badly damaged by parental abuse that she stopped developing emotionally in childhood.
To be absolutely clear, her parents didn’t deserve to die but they do have to take responsibility for creating a “monster”. The world is round and karma can be harsh. “Tiger” parents take note.
Karen, this post is very nice and explanatory but I find your style of writing to be a little bit pretentious and difficult to follow. Who is this written for? It feels like there’s advanced words like gregarious, verboten, and apoplectic (to name just three that immediately come to mind) when simpler words would have been suffice. One such example “goofy and gregarious” serves as a juxtaposition and is awkward in flow.
EDIT: After some background Googling, I’ve discovered that Toronto Life isn’t some highbrow intellectual magazine but rather, it targets the general public. Please “dumb” down your writing so that it’s easier to follow because some parts just jut out like a knife.
Rest in peace Bich Pan :(
I hope the father and son can find peace and relief…
What Jennifer did was extremely selfish and despicable and I have no sympathy for her.
Those three words you mentioned should not be hard to understand (at least 2 out of 3). Maybe you just need to read more. Pretentious is when you take 3 sentences to say one thing or use . I felt her article to be extremely well written and succinct. Oh wait, am I being pretentious now? I see pretentious articles online all the time, but this is not one of them for me.
Your response sound much more pretentious than the article you claim. The whole time I was reading your comment, I pictured someone wearing a monocle, top hat, and taped-on-moustache. I hope you are not a chick and I did not offend you girl-bro.
Did you even read the article? Someone was in their home, and put guns in her parents faces, and her parents thought they were going to die any second and were begging for their lives. Their daughter is in the next room whispering to the same people about how to kill her parents. Are you stupid? I am sorry and don’t mean to be crass, but I feel like I need to. How do you even justify that? I felt sick just reading that part, I had to stop. Imagine if it was your parents. No amount of pressure should make that justifiable. Also, I grew up in a similar situation, and I did not ever wish that on my parents. Or anyone. EVER. Also to Boris, you are extremely naive.
Boris, I wish I could punch you in the balls. Your comment makes me want to do that.
I agree. It was objective. It was much like the Podcast “Serial”.
To all of you who think she’s an awful person: she definitely appears to be one but also don’t forget to take into account that the strict upbringing she experienced is what would have caused her to start falling astray in the beginning. I’d bet anything that the stress of her parents extremely high standards caused her to go crazy, she became a pathological liar because as a child lying was what she discovered was the best way to escape her father’s wrath. That was simply the start and over time she became worse. The way I see it her parents strict expectations caused her mental issues and also her poor chpice of friends which then lead to a lot a bad decisions which she was able to justify in her mind. When the author said “some think her parents were to blame” I don’t think he is wrong at all, it’s awful that this hapoened and it’s even more awful that they’re delusional daughter was the one to order their death but there were many warning signs that her parents should have picked up on, there were many things they could have done with her in her younger years to reduce stress and thus reduce mental and emotiomal damage caused to her. Life had a way of plying itself out and nothing just happens but little factors weigh in on every desicion and every action. Did Jennifer get what she deserved for her actions? Absolutely but did her parents in sone way fail to raise her so that she would be more mentally stable? Are her actions towards them a result of the way she was brought up and maybe a result of how they acted towards her? That’s not for anyone to confirm or deny nut it is a positivity.
I’m not sure I quite agree with what you call obsessive demands and how the parents should take responsibility for creating a monster.
First of all, the grades thing. Her parents wanted her to get high grades and would check up on her studies. That’s not unfair, that’s just being responsible. Secondly, they monitored her extracurricular activities and picked her up from school. Sounds like something every parent would do to ensure their kid is safe. Okay, she wasn’t allowed to attend dances or have a boyfriend, this may seem strange to some that grew up in Western culture but this is actually pretty common for Asian/immigrant households.
If you want another perspective, Jennifer has a brother who grew up in the same environment, same household, same rules. You don’t see him faking his life and ordering a hit on his parents.
Jennifer is the anomaly here, so there has to be something wrong with her. From the information given, that “something wrong” seems to be a complete disregard for anyone but herself.
Children are sometimes too naive to know what their dreams are. It is the parent’s job to guide them. Sure, it got out of control but really, no good comes out of “letting them organically follow their dreams” either.
Jennifer and her gang are nothing but a bunch of criminals and liars. Here was a daughter who had parents working hard for her and she blew it away and then them. She should rot in jail.
Yes daddy. I will do whatever you say. Just don’t punch me in the face. I’m running out of excuses for all the bruises and cuts.
This is almost as fun to read as The Adventures of Russ Williams!
I absolutely agree with your points here. From what I see, it’s not like they never loved her, it’s just a “Tiger” parent’s way of showing tough love. They implemented proper safeguards to ensure and help guide their child to grow up well. Whether Jennifer chose to listen or not, that’s on her. Sure, their expectations may not have matched what Jennifer could achieve, but it was still reasonable what they have done.
I think you have a very simplistic view of how her parents were “monitoring” her. It’s very often not as straightforward, and many parents rely on shame and guilt to keep their children in line and follow along with their plans for their kids’ lives. They probably stunted her emotionally and she grew up without developing the kind of empathy that you would develop in a loving and nurturing home.
Aren’t you just a ray of sunshine.
Karen states, “This was a difficult story for me to write”. That was your choice. Just like it was the choices of her friend Daniel which lead him to where it is. How difficult do you think it is for the family who didn’t have the choice in the matter. The ones who are trying to carry on while being constantly attacked by stoires such as this one?
There is a reason this is on a blog site and not a news site. A difference between writer and a journalist is a journalist does research and sticks to journalistic practises. Journalist also keep there opinions out of the article are clearly state when it is.
This is a great piece of fiction and should be stated as such. Its lovely when the main source of information comes from the the same people who schemed and plotted the actions in the first place. Anyone who kept track with the story would know the web of stories that were spun and twisted during the trials. This is no different.
This is just one persons opinion but maybe 2 sides of the story would be better than your own made up reality. You should also hear from the family before making claims about their lives.
Interesting to hear the other side and background that wasn’t really available in the court.
While they were wrong, we forget that prior to crime, everyone is human, has motives and desires. How far some will go.
When you live your whole life without being allowed to make mistakes, how can you possibly know how to handle it when you do make one?
Really? So I should tell my daughter that her dream is to be a concert pianist and make her go that route, rather than letting her try new things to find out what she wants to do?
Why not just stamp kids on the forehead with things like “Doctor”, “Engineer” and “Ditch Digger” as they exit the womb?
That we should be pitying Ms. Pan and blaming her father was not the point of the article at all. How you understand that to be the case, I do not know.
Unclear where you get this notion of bias. The article quite clearly states that it is a friend of Ms. Pan’s who believes that her parents are to blame. It’s not unusual for friends and family of persons convicted of crimes to find excuses. How is this article biased for reporting a fact? The fact that one of Ms. Pan’s friends believes that her parents pushed her into this shows how truly awful and messed-up a situation this is.
The overwhelming majority of people with strict upbringings do not kill their parents.
I’m just going off the information given to us in this article. I don’t think her experiences are unique to her, many other people grow up with “tiger” parents. That doesn’t mean they all grow up to be murderers. Now, are the parents responsible for making their daughter hate them? Probably. But it’s a huge, irrational step from “I hate someone” to “I’m going to kill them”. And in between those two thoughts, I think there are a lot of personality issues that Jennifer developed that can’t be blamed on the parents.
I see your point. But that’s the thing, it’s one friend who said that her parents are to blame. It’s like saying I know one person who thinks the movie Jack and Jill by Adam Sandler deserves to win an award and saying “Some people believe Adam Sandler gave an Oscar-worthy performance in that movie”. I don’t think the author is wrong, I just thought there would be more credibility behind the statement so that it doesn’t center around the opinions of “Jennifer’s one friend”.
You know, even though this article’s pretty biased, if you grew up in a similar situation where you’ve felt helpless, in a home full of people who do not love, then pray tell how you don’t feel at least a bit of a connection with her.
Well. Unless she was a psychopath, then we have no real clue to why she did it. Her family situation resounds pretty amazingly with mine. I wouldn’t have ordered a hit for sure, but if the situation at my house had gotten a tiny bit worse, enough to put me hypothetically off the edge, I may have not been here writing this and you would’ve heard about “HungryHoodlum kills parents and commits suicide”.
Seriously. I don’t feel particularly sympathetic to Jennifer Pan’s POV, but it’s hard not to think about what could’ve happened if you, me, or anyone else was stuck in such a situation.
Um…what love are you talking about exactly? There is no love, and if there is, it’s twisted twisted love. I have to agree with Hina Husain’s points here. Shamamallama said the grades thing was just being responsible. No…if I got a B I’d be beaten, physically and emotionally. If you think getting beaten emotionally isn’t a thing, think again. There are some asian families that aren’t so disturbingly cruel. Those kids are the lucky ones. They get to be asian without being fucked up in the head later in life. Tigers they were, and they definitely contributed to making her feel unwanted and depressed. Depressed people will do a lot of things that seem irrational. Have some sympathy. Sure, Jennifer is an anomaly, but she’s an anomaly that some of us can understand. She’s not the only one to blame here. Her mother should’ve tried harder to stop the abuse, and her father was basically beyond help. Her brother could’ve counseled her, but maybe it was all too late. Thing is, no one tried. The ones who did just wanted money and favors. If someone had honestly tried to make a difference in her life a killer would not have been born.
Why? Because he stated something that you don’t agree with? Just because you probably haven’t had such a bad childhood doesn’t mean you can tell him to stfu…
Half of these replies are trolls while the other half are telling Jennifer that she did wrong. A very small minority of these posts are genuinely examining this topic and trying to understand why she did it and how easily this could’ve been prevented.
I am sorry to be the jaded one around here. A lot of these people are shallow; I serious doubt the point of the article is for us to pity her. We need to understand the motive for her to do this, most of us are selfish are can only see the world through their own lens. Just a note, I am not her, just as you are not her, the things that you feel will not be the same for her, just as she cannot comprehend what you feel either. Everyone takes in things differently.
No one wants to acknowledge that yes, how we are raised and what choices our families make for us might not be the best things. In order to understand this issue, a lot of us have to look within and understand that many cultures are very broken about how they raise their kids, and the mantra of “your family only wants the best for you and can do no wrong” is not always true.
Jennifer was clearly disturbed and did something she shouldn’t have. No matter what happens, killing someone is never the answer. However, her actions didn’t just happen out of the blue. She didn’t just wake up one day and plan to kill her parents. These thoughts and tendencies probably started coming to her early in life and were never addressed by those around her. She probably always masked her true feelings and wasn’t allowed to fail. That is too much pressure to put on anyone! She clearly cracked and did what she did. It was wrong, but the answers lie where no one wants to go: her past and her childhood and how she was raised to make her who she became.
“Every child coming from an immigrant family experiences those pressures.”
That is an absurd assertion. You would have us believe that all neurotic and abusive parenting is meted out in identical fashion among millions of families.
Since none of us know all the details I find it instructive to first examine the indisputable facts in order to get a feel for what transpired and for the likely causation of a tragedy. This article was valuable in that it gave a fairly thorough chronology of the events leading up to the crime and a background of the family dynamics.
There are a lot of comments here stating that many parents are strict and demanding of their children but don’t get murdered for their aspirations. This is a facile and lazy take away from a tragedy like this. Not all abused children are beaten. Psychological abuse can be much more damaging plus not all children are tough enough to come out of it unscathed. I haven’t read anything here to indicate that Jennifer’s pathology was anything but the result of child abuse. There is plenty of evidence to indicate that she was a victim of abuse but most commenters are more than willing to overlook the fact that parents are statistically far more likely to kill their children than the reverse scenario. Insanity is the predominant cause for parents killing their children so why wouldn’t a daughter killing abusive parents not be given the same latitude? A diseased mind does not always make rational decisions. If you don’t have empathy for an abused child I have to wonder about how you treat your own children or spouse. Reactionary and unbalanced judgements are always revealing of deep character flaws. Thanks for the warning.
here is my question to you then.
do you think you have the level of empathy to understand the issue in all levels instead of just through your own lens?
the point is not to thing it is right or wrong, if you were to ask anyone within this chain, they would tell you it is very wrong. the point is the understand the reason WHY.
as far as I am concerned, this whole mess started with a family failing to understand and approve of one another.
Agree with you 100%, I don’t know why we think that emotional and psychological abuse doesn’t impact a person. It has deeper and more traumatizing effects on a person than physical abuse does!
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/10/psychological-abuse.aspx
Humans must experience failure to avoid failure.
She nearly got away with everything, if she would stop and think about the loopholes in her story, but since she never “failed”, she never know it until it hits her in the face.
Allow me to give you my little story on my family, I think I am actually pretty lucky in a sense.
Before my family went over the pond over here to Canada, I was one of those guys who gets 3rd in class every year. Not perfect, but not bad in a sense. My sister was not so good back then, she is 2 years younger, and had trouble absorbing things. In HK, we have testings too as soon as we hit Grade 1, it was difficult for her.
Her stigma turned into stress, she started to play tricks. She lied, and manipulate people to do what she needed to do to “stay afloat” to look good in front of my parents. I was the one who actually found out more about it and talked to my parents about it.
The kicker? She was 6 YEARS OLD.
My parents, naturally, got angry at her lies. Here is the difference, they stopped and THINK, they also looked at it beyond the fact that she lied, and eventually loosen their expectation for academics for both of us. I could only hazard a guess: they know how messed up the stress is if it forced their 6 year old daughter to lie like that.
When we went over the pond on this side, my parents still had that whole “tiger” tendency, but not so much. My sister enjoyed the change of pace, and she excelled in her own way. This led to another set of problems with me who were used to be so competitive, and how I become the jaded person that I am today, but that is a lesson for another time.
Point is, if anyone of them were to stop to think apart from what they see from their own eyes, and allow empathy as a guidance, we would not see stories like this. Problem is, today, human beings are far too self-absorbed materially, and they lose sight of their true self and eventually become lost.
Even had she not committed murder, I would not have trusted Jennifer as a person at all. Dishonesty is not an acceptable way to respond to adversity, and she only has herself to blame for her own failures. It is not okay to forge report cards and diplomas, fake your graduation and pretend to attend university. It’s also, on a lesser scale, not okay to manipulate your boyfriend into thinking you got gang-raped so he won’t leave you. I find it difficult to empathize with someone who had such a loving mother, and an ultimately well-intentioned father. They didn’t deserve what she did to them.
No, a parent’s job is to guide them you bozo not dictate what they do. Her parents did not say go be an Engineer. Neither did mine. Mine said pursue an education and study hard. If I didnt, they were there to bring me back on track. If your children want to go frolicking in the park because they dont know better and thats ok with you, then go ahead.
I agree. I commented earlier for Karen to not use such cheap and immoral tactics to grab the attention of readers. Unfortunately, her cheap response was to remove my comment. Good stuff, Karen. You are going to be one heck of a writer.
YES, thank you for saying this. I totally wanted to but stopped myself because I figured I didn’t need to sound like an asshole. If Jennifer’s mother was ecstatic that she got into a B-tier university, then her parents don’t sound strict at all. She’s just weak. If she really wanted to escape her family that badly, it would be as simple as studying hard and asking to go to UBC or Waterloo.
What do you mean… How easily could this have been prevented?
How do you know what caused this?
Given that her program of choice was Science, calculus was probably not even an entry requirement. She must have failed/dropped a lot of other courses or taken too many spares if missing credits from calculus prevented her from graduating high school.
Not much discussion here about the company she kept. Something was not right with these people. Most of us don’t have friends who know people who kill people for money. Most of us would never even remotely condone such action. There are studies that indicate peer group has a much larger influence on actions than parental influence, once someone has become an adult.
Equating the effects of emotional and psychological abuse with the impetus to kill is a logical fallacy, to say the least.
No one knows what really caused all this for sure, but people are all too quick to label Jennifer as a cold-hearted psycho who is now rotting in jail and is getting what she deserved, without actually trying to understand what motivated her and led to this unfortunate chain of events. I don’t think she is evil or bad or deserves to be hated the way many commenters are expressing here. She deserves a little bit of empathy and it may be hard to see, but underneath the “monster” that people think she is, there’s probably a broken and traumatized person who needs a lot of help.
You make a great point. I think you could make a case about someone being pushed over the edge due to an external factor like family/school/life pressures. But if a person had to resort to ordering a hit to get their parents out of their life and take money through the inheritance, I feel that is not the same case. I don’t feel sympathy for a person that is clearly cold and calculating and a chronic liar like her. I do feel for the pressures she had to go through, but a lot of us, myself included had to go through something similar. I don’t feel bad that she is rotting in jail. Anyways, your response is very well put, and I have to respect that.
The only way we, as human beings, can begin to make sense of such things is to look for cause and effect relationships. We want to make sense of things, we look for identifiable patterns. The reality is, these patterns and correlations are often an illusion. Sometimes there are no reasons. Sometimes the reasons would make so little sense to us, we couldn’t recognize them even if they were sitting in plain sight. None of us can really know the “why” with certainty, but we would all feel a little more secure if we could.
Good thing you voted for your own comment because no one else (with intellectual integrity) would agree with such an absurd statement.
Thank-you for complimenting my intellectual integrity, but why is my statement absurdist to you? To take the argument to the opposite extreme, if equating emotional and psychological abuse with the impetus to kill was a logical thing to do, than we could expect that homicide would be the likely and excused outcome in all cases of severe emotional and psychological abuse. It is not. One person suffers, and spreads caring. Another suffers and seeks help, Another suffers, and does nothing. And yet another suffers, and commits murder. To argue that emotional and psychological abuse is an impetus to kill, is a stigmatizing insult to every survivor of abuse who would never murder another soul.
While you say others are too quick to label, here you are, labelling Jennifer yourself as “a broken and traumatized person who needs a lot of help”. How do you really know? You believe what you do, most likely because it coincides with you worldview, and what you want to believe. I don’t blame you. But I do think that the viewpoints you reference are not necessarily diametrically opposed. One can blame, and indeed hate what someone has done, while also recognizing them as a victim.
You’re indulging in moral absolutism, the refuge of religionists and other scoundrels. No, that wasn’t a compliment either.
No, I am in no way “indulging in moral absolutism”. Please re-read what I said, it is an argument against absolutism. If you have anything to share and reason, please do so. Ad-hominem attacks have no place here.
p.s. if you wanted to insult me, you would write “no one (with intellectual integrity) would agree”, but by writing “no one *else* […]”, you indicate that you believe I do indeed have intellectual integrity. I understand that you were trying to insult me, but it doesn’t really offend when it’s written without logical integrity.
You wrote: “Equating the effects of emotional and psychological abuse with the impetus to kill is a logical fallacy, to say the least.” in response to the comment that Hina wrote: ” I don’t know why we think that emotional and psychological abuse doesn’t impact a person. It has deeper and more traumatizing effects on a person than physical abuse does!” Where is the “logical fallacy” in her statement? She was speaking generally about the effects of child abuse.
You seem to have an extensive vocabulary, Adam, but few clues about context and even less ability with reading comprehension. And no, that wasn’t an ad hominem attack either.
You seem to be a classic example of how a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Now THAT’S an ad hominem attack.
I neve quoted Hina. You quoted me directly, and then added Hina’s quote in. Please do not misrepresent what I wrote. Seriously, what does it take to get a user banned around here?
Thank you for proving my contention that you have poor reading comprehension, Adam. I never said you quoted Hina. You replied to her statement with an absurd non sequitur.
When was the last time you were able to fog a mirror? LOL
Agree with Adam Catalyst. For someone who is calling out others for labelling Jennifer too quickly, you are doing the exact same thing labelling her family and assuming that the way she was raised was the cause for what happened.
I agree that it’s not always straightforward, but I think it’s pretty unfair that you are making all these assumptions about how she was raised (ie. “They probably stunted her emotionally etc etc “). How are you arriving to these conclusions? What is with all these assumptions? From all your comments so far it really just comes across as if you are you projecting your own experiences onto this story.
Weak, Adam, very weak. Is that all you have?
I bracketed the qualifier so once again you are wrong, Adam.
I said “probably”, and also that we may never know what really happened. But between calling her a monster and showing her some empathy, I’m gonna opt for the latter.
For reference: “there’s PROBABLY a broken and traumatized person who needs a lot of help”
Where did I say that I was raised like this, or in any way similar to this? You seem more upset that I am trying to show some sympathy towards her and what she MAY have experienced, but are totally okay with the rest of the people who are outright condemning her and calling her a monster. Just FYI, people don’t need to have lived through fucked up shit themselves in order to see that others may have and that it affected them. Jeez!
Maybe, I don’t really know about ryserson science tho. Btw, did you go to waterloo for afm in the last year? I think I might have met you.
FYI, they are called “parenthesis”, bracketing means something else entirely, and in either case, I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
From a previous comment of yours, “Those of us who grow up seeing this and knowing what it’s like need to start speaking up… etc etc” Sorry if I misconstrued that comment of yours, but again, so far all your responses about her family and her upbringing are based on assumptions. And when did I say I was, “totally okay with [people ]…calling her a monster?” — there you go again with assuming.
Just FYI @hinahusain:disqus, I knew Jennifer and the Pan family when we were younger — and she was a very sweet girl when I knew her. But I’m not going to start assuming shit about what happened and try to blame her family for creating this situation.
Whoa, everything I’m saying is based on assumptions, as opposed to all the fact based shit all the other people are going on, right? You’re right, I should have said “all you immigrants who know the truth, please speak up.”
I don’t even know why you’re engaging with me here since you know all the inside scoop and I know nothing. So, you’re right.
I’m sorry if you don’t like the confrontation. I’m not trying to single you out, but given that you are one of the few people on this site that are spinning theories about what “may” have happened in her life, I felt the need to point out that we just shouldn’t be so quick to assume what has led to all of this. Having people here throw around comments lightly about “child abuse,” when no one really knows the facts is really unfair to the family, especially when they underwent such a traumatizing event.
There’s also no need to be snippy. I never claimed to know the inside scoop.
I agree that this article is biased. It would be more legitimate to have heard from the family so people can stop throwing around terms like “child abuse” when the information is based on hearsay from friends that are unnamed sources and the co-accused.
I don’t understand what’s confrontational about this, you have your opinions and I have mine. I can see you’re trying to invalidate what I’m saying, for some odd reason. Whatever, you must know best I guess.
Exactly I completely agree with you. Thank you for providing the additional insight I missed. I do believe the people that were with her as “friends” influenced her heavily.
Strict parents make sneaky children
When you failed to acknowledge your poor reading comprehension I wrote you off as a pseudointellectual coward. Now you’re using semantics in a desperate attempt to save face.
Keep up the bad work. Lol
Jennifer is a person that was pushed too hard and cracked. All she ever really wanted was to be recognised for her hard work a accomplishment’s, but it was never good enough. When did it really every matter? And when it doesn’t matter anymore did it ever matter? She was viewed as never good enough. Some times parents need to let there children make mistakes, just so you can be there for them, that’s called Parentings. Catch them when they fall, brush them off and try again. There seems to be a lack of love and affection in the family. I understand culture may play a large roll in this. The only thing to affection was from Daniel, from the day of her asthma attack that…..was the first real time someone showed her kindness that became love. Then Daniel tells her there’s another girl “Christina”. That was all she had as hope, as future, and Daniel was her heart. When someone cuts them self its not to see if they bleed, its to feel something anything. Does she have mental problems? Yea for a long time she has suffered silently. The lies were a fantasy of the life her family want her to be. But what did Jennifer ever really want……not to kill her parents…. But to be free…to be loved……to be seen as a daughter not a trophy. When was she ever happy? The moment when all the lies came clean and the family saw her for the first time as a child, that didnt live up to there expections and was then was asked to leave. She was exiled from the family that day, this was the day….she really died. They had lived there lives through her, without disappointment. No life sentences could justify any of this in any way. Does the crime fit the punishment? Does Jennifer walk the halls of her penitentiary in sadness and sorrow and shame? No that would of been her life at home….why were there tears when she was found guilty? Well sometimes you need to be careful what you wish for..in sorrow and joy well are over whelmed with tears as well…….
I would even assume it was more. I had a friend in high school who was in a similar situation. It never escalated this far, obviously, but it got to a point where the girl ran away from home to live with her boyfriend because her dad found drugs (not for the first time) in her room. She had strict “tiger” parents too and amongst all of us we thought her parents were unreasonable and if they weren’t so hard on her all the time she wouldn’t suffer from depression and all sorts of socio-pathic illnesses. At that age it’s easy to blame the parents. Only when you get older do kids realize that they do it out of love, but they just don’t understand the consequences on the mental health of a person, being inflicted with that kind of “love”.
That’s not the point, dumbass. Jennifer clearly knew what she was doing; I’m glad the judge saw her her BS lies and convicted rightfully as well as the others. This is textbook first degree murder; there’s literally no loophole she could have found to escape from it. Feigning insanity or mental illness isn’t gonna work. This is all on her. I hope she can live with the fact that she is forever responsible for her mother’s death, the one parent who stuck up for her to an extent and sympathized with her. Her mother knew the pressures were getting to her and was probably trying to convince Hann to relax a bit but we don’t know what parents said between them regarding their daughter. We will never know.
The dad lost his love, his family, his everything. He can’t even work and no one will buy the house where murder occurred. His life is literally ruined. I don’t blame him for wishing to have been killed that night.
Cold blooded murder. They deserve the sentence that was rightfully given to each and every one of them. Life sentence is a good way to think about the crap they pulled. Murdering your parents in cold blood is unforgivable. Any murder is unforgivable.
Bich was probably the most innocent one, if you can call it that but she was the one killed. She sympathized with Jennifer and tried to ease up on her husband’s restrictions as best as she could without being caught. Jennifer failed to see that because she was so caught up in her own little self-hate and life. Selfish b***h.
Yes, I agree. Too bad sometimes we don’t realize all that until it’s too late, with Jennifer’s case being the extreme version of that.
I’m just going off what I read on the article and since the article never mentioned anything about her being abused emotionally or physically when she got a B grade, I did not take that to be the case. The author talked about her own experiences and related that to Jennifer’s, but I didn’t take that to be Jennifer’s own experience.
I understand your point though. I can see how her parents’ strict upbringings brought about mental instability. I think the problem I have is that it almost sounds like people are saying the parents brought it upon themselves, which I don’t think is the case at all. There’s a HUGE difference between hating someone and making the conscious decision to kill someone. If she hadn’t gone to that extreme, I would definitely feel more sympathy.
How could you not trust her? Nobody knew. She was manipulative and apparently lied about everything.. I sat next to her every day in high school, (She was in my TA) and I had no clue who she really was or what she was capable of. This shit haunts me, knowing how close I was to her.. O.o
Daniel should have never been a part of that. He was nothing but a puppet on a string who got manipulated. He was honestly the nicest guy I knew in high school. I miss him. Its a shame he got sucked into her bs.
She personally asked me over fb for an inside scoop on what I knew about her, but i never replied. So, I gather she got information from mutual friends.
Clearly no one listened to what the brother had to say. If anyone paid attention to his testimony they would know he felt that defence was painting a fictitious story. He clearly states that the family was based on trust and trusting Jennifer was what let it go so far. But then again simple stories don’t sell magazines.
We actually used to flirt on MSN. I think I dodged that bullet.. Too soon? O.o
It’s truly a shame what happened to Daniel though. I loved that guy like a brother in high school. He was so nice.. Always smiling, laughing, cracking jokes, lighting joints… Man, I miss you.
What happened..???
That’s really interesting. What was she like as a person?
Its clear to see she cut herself for attention. And I don’t understand this “love” thing. She used to flirt with me over MSN. How she wanted to.. Well.. You know. I think it was all a cry for attention. Now she’s famous. She got what she wanted. I’m just pissed she dragged daniel into it.. I never even knew they had a thing, as close as I was to the two.. Meh..
Karen Ho, thank you for writing this difficult story. This is definitely uneasy for you.
Honestly, you would have never guessed. She was somewhat quiet in person, but smiled a lot. I always thought she was very bright with a lot of promise in her studies.. Kept to herself really. Except this one kid who sat on the other side of her. I think his name was Alex. I always thought they were related.. Anyways, it wasn’t til after high school, when I found her on MSN, I noticed she opened up a lot. We actually used to flirt back and forth with one another. Which I’m glad I never followed through with.. Lol can’t say I remember much else though.. I smoked a lot of pot in high school. Lol
Daniel on the other hand. We were very close friends. Hung out every day. She must have had him on a string because he was never like that.. I guess ppl will do anything for a buck.. I even feel bad saying that because I truly respected him and loved him like a brother. Its sad, but it happened and I’m glad he got punished for his actions. Just a shame. I still talk to his bro, but could never ask… :(
That’s really a shame. Sorry to hear that. You’re right, she probably changed him a lot.
I think you’re reading way too much into it. She said some people believe that the parents are to blame, and quoted a friend. Really unclear how that is biased or not credible. I’d be surprised if it wasn’t the case, frankly.
whoa.. mind to share how close you were to these people?
King Jones: “…Its clear to see she cut herself for attention…”
That’s mostly not what cutting’s about…
It takes evil to commit evil deed. It doesn’t matter if she was a good child, a good friend, a good student, or just a good person in general, the fact that at the moment she had decided to murder her parents, she was no longer good. Her friends pitied her because they knew her, but they did not know her parents, so it was easy for them to say “they pushed her too that point”. Did they or even Jenifer ever considered the hardship her parents had to go through-the trauma of losing one’s country, being strayed in a strange man’s land, and having to adapt so quickly to provide a better future not for themselves, but for their children? Who pushed them to strive for their life? Who pushed them to work hard to secure someone else’s future? Who would they blame when things go wrong? It was so much easier for Jennifer to blame her parents rather than to admit her wrong doing. Of course she had love her parents multiple times during her life, only that she didn’t love them when they made her mad because she lied, when they grounded her for failing and not graduating, when they tried to break up her relationship with a boy who was also later involved in the murder, and especially she didn’t love them when she decided to kill them. She deceived her parents and her friends because she was too coward to accept reality and had too much pride to start again. It is not difficult to blame others, it is just difficult to blame one self. Few have mentioned it was not out of a blue that Jennifer decided to kill her parents and I agreed-it was an intricate art of deception and lies, which required time and effort to manifest. Simply put, her motives were excuses to cover up her failures. All murderers have motives, even psychopaths too-kill for pleasure or whatever reasons they deem fit. However, motives should not be used to justify an evil deed. Think of it this way, an abusive parent justifies his/her action by stating, “I was being abused as a child, so I grew up to be abusive.” Well I was bullied by others as a child, but I did not grow up to be a bully-because I knew how it felt and I did not want others to feel the same. I did not take my frustration out on others. There are many people out there who were in a similar boat as Jennifer or possibly worse, but they did not grow up to be murderers, or at least not all of them, including me or my friends. It could be the difference between Jennifer and the rest of us who grew up to be better people was our level of maturity-maybe because we did not take our parents’ hard work for granted, we did not deceive the people we love, we were willing to admit our mistakes even though we knew the consequences ahead, and we did not blame others for our own miseries. For those who think your parents are cruel for treating you the way they do, know this, you are much crueler for treating them the way you do because you are their children and you have not or might never be able to do anything for them like the way they have done for you. Some might agree or disagree with me, but reality is set and we can all choose to be another Jennifer, or we can choose to improve ourselves and see the goods in our parents because one day some of us might become parents too.
Absolutely chilling… To her friends who say her parents were to blame, of course we’ll never know the whole story but none of their actions seemed to be extremely abusive or harmful. It’s a shame she couldn’t entrust them with the truth about her academic performance, after the initial shock and anger most parents would agree that their child needed to see a professional for help with depression, I’m sure her parents would have done the same. If they hadn’t, simply making up those credits at the end of high school and attending college would have put her in the hands of most university’s extensive counseling programs; often it’s just a matter of having enough humility to seek help, which ms. Pan evidently did not have.
This reminds me of the recent American case of Mr. Hassan Razzaq, who along with his siblings and mother was heavily abused at the hands of his father. Killing is never okay but can’t help feeling a little more sympathetic for him.
Congratulations to Karen for repeating what the defence said. Good thing the jury listens to both sides of the story. Because what the defendants said must all be true.
Explain to me this. How do you lie and deceive such controlling parents for so long? She was given no freedoms but was able to go out and do all these things? She was locked away but magically was able to spend time with her boyfriend. The parents were forceful and made her focus on academics but didn’t check up on her for her whole high school and university career? How is any of this possible. There are so many loop holes in your story.
Lets completely ignore the fact that her friend Daniel was a convicted drug dealer. Oh know, Karen knows him well so that makes this not his fault.
Mutual friends are still the same side of the story. I assume that close family and friends wouldn’t talk about the matter.
They didn’t want the best thing for her. They wanted the best thing for themselves. A trophy child. We and they know that the best thing for a child is to be happy. If you won’t let her go to dances or friends she won’t be very happy. If you show your disappointment very clearly, she won’t be happy. If you force her to do things she doesn’t like, she won’t be happy. That’s mental abuse. These parents were awful. Selfish reasons? She wasn’t allowed to be selfish. Her parents forbid it. She easily could of finished her high school degree if her parents would have supported her instead of ordered her around.
Nevertheless she clearly hated her parents so much that she didn’t see them as people anymore and wanted them killed. She is to blame for the murders but her parents are to blame for making her even consider it.
I feel sorry for the dad that he has to live with this, but he lost his daughter years ago.
People are confusing “understanding” with “agreement”
I agree that the family did not help matters with this girl. But her actions clearly show that of someone who was a sociopath. I don’t think her family pushed her to her actions, I think or being a sociopath did.
When I used to cut myself or want to it was a cry for attention. Its something a lot of kids do. Kids crave attention. She just wanted someone to notice her… Make sense? Do you have first hand experience?
I think it is excessive when situated in a new country where the majority of her peers are not treated that way by their parents. She obviously has deep feelings of inadequacy hence her “happy-face” mask…I think it would’ve been healthy for her to have gone through teenage angst and rebelled openly to this upbringing…
I wrote a lil bit from what I remember about them in another reply. If you can find it.. Lol
It’s interesting. Your view is of the minority here – “sympathy for the devil” so to speak…and it’s very interesting to see others trying to invalidate your point of view. I see both sides but I am opposed to extreme view points (except in the case of a serial killer that murders in cold blood). It’s a shame that people can’t open up and consider another side when you are sharing your opinion just like they are.
Good point! Certainly something I struggle with – overanalysis due to fear of making mistakes (something left over from my own upbrining)
Safe to assume. That’s just rude, in my opinion.. Ppl want to forget. I know Daniels brother, but I would never ask him about it.. I can see how fucked up he’s become, as they were very close.. Some things you just don’t bring up.
I think your higher threshold for triggering sympathy in this situation may be (an assumption here of course) due to that you’ve not been pressed to your breaking point. Agreed that there’s a difference between hating and making that decision…and certainly everyone has different innate and nurtured points with regards to being under pressure and the ultimate breaking point…but until you’ve faced your own personal tolerance peaking and your will stretched, and you face the abyss…you really don’t know what can cross your mind.
Well said. If you write more short stories, I’d read it :)
Everyone has different breaking points. My brother’s tolerance was significantly lower. He definitely had extreme behavioural issues during the “strict upbringing” we had
I dunno what the science pre-reqs are these days…but note, she was born in 1986 – I belong to her cohort and for entry into University Science programs, Calculus was definitely a requirement. It was only a few years after I graduated when I heard they were dropping Calc as a pre-req…which in my opinion, dumbed down the education.
Well, like you said, this was a piece written with biases that we all have. I think it did its job of sparking a conversation around issues of interest in this story line – as evidenced by the commentary.
Meh, I prefer the public have chances to gain new words in their vocabulary. Writing styles and preferences are subjective. I enjoyed her pace and style just fine.
I have experience of living with a girl who was a cutter.
We talked about it quite a bit…she cut herself discretely, and it didn’t ‘seem’ to me it was about getting attention, since it was exclusively a solo act, and she’d cover her arms so others–including me–couldn’t see.
In fact, as we got to know each other better, we kept the blade in a beautiful Moroccan inlaid box, by the side of the bed.
Here…some words I imagine you’re familiar with:
“I hurt myself today
To see if I still feel
I focus on the pain
The only thing that’s real”
…not that I’m suggesting that’s the only answer, or even necessarily relevant…after all, you have your own experiences…
I agree with most of everything you say here. Interestingly enough, with your first sentence, I actually had thought that the rest of the comment was going to also comment on the fact that perhaps to Jennifer, her parents were “evil.” I agree that we all have choices to make and the more conscious we are of our power in making different choices, perhaps we would make ones that really make our lives better. It’s just that at young ages when one is defenseless against parents and their incessant mental/emotional demands, it is hard even in adulthood to deal with that. In my case, my parents were similar here – I had a tiger mom, and an absentee father (who when present was also abusive). My own development had been quite different from my brother – he had a lot more behavioural issues because his tolerance for abuse is quite low, and honestly, I think people forget that the brain continues to mature well into the 20s – especially the logical centres in the frontal lobe region. He (my brother) had a lot more issues similar to Jennifer here with the deception and lies that he spun with my family and friends – but fortunately, he was quite poor at it. And I noted that his ability to reason was quite limited (he would try to convince you that 2+2 =9). Somewhere around age 25/26 was when there was a large leap in his thinking where it really actually matured. Before that he blamed everyone else and never examined himself…and then slowly the ability to self-examine trickled in. I think it is correct to say that we all have a choice – but our ability to take the different choice can be a bit of an illusion depending on so many different factors (age, development, severity of personal trauma due to past experiences). I used to wonder why my brother and I differed so much in the same environment of abuse, but honestly in retrospect, there were so many factors, and many of which were not really in his control. I hope my comment widens your considerations a bit, but the world is really not black and white.
by not having abusive narcissistic parents? It’s not up for debate if the behavior described here is abusive or not. IT IS. And when you are abused for decades bad shit eventually happens. To the abusers, the abusee, to the new relationships formed by the abusee. Hina hit’s it spot on when she says that several cultures have very dysfunctional child raising practices.
How is “not having abusive narcissistic parents” an easy prevention strategy? Could you also provide a list of cultures with dysfunctional child raising practices that leads to homocide causing abuse? It would be helpful to know who potential killers are by the color of their skin.
I find it interesting that not even her lawyer thought that an argument could be made for her actions as a result of abuse, or duress. It seems from this article that Jennifer carried on elaborate lies for years thoughout her life… Is it not possible her unproven allegations of abuse were also a lie? Just speculating, of course it’s impossible to know.
Culture does not equal race.
She is despicable. To completely fabricate your world and show it to your parents and keep that up for several years? And then try to kill them? How do you LIVE with yourself?
I can only think of the pain that her father and brother experience now. Rest in peace, Bich Ha.
Boris, I find you intellectually superior to Adam by quite a huge margin, you don’t need to engage with him here.
Well the ending is pretty much predictable; suicide, murder, runaway, or live up to it as long as she can. She is 24 for god sake. Way pass legal age and yet still imprisoned in her own house. If it were under normal circumstances, the parents could be charged. Too bad, one wrong turn and bad decision making from the girl, it all went haywire. Rather than sympathy or judgements, what happened happened. Learn from it is what i can say. If you want a child to be your trophy, why not just be a throphy yourself. If you are stressed up, talk to your parents or just ignore it and live as you want. Don’t pretend or lie all the way.
Correction: They are known as “round brackets”…
…and also as “parentheses”.
But I do have to wonder…this is the web, not a class in the nomenclature of punctuation…
…wherefore the pedantry, Adam?
Your mind’s quite rigid, and you are, as of right now, completely incapable of seeing the complex–and powerfully valid–point Hina Husain is making.
All posts are projections, bobsmith i.e. we all bring something of ourselves to the interpretation…
…the issue is not whether we ‘project’, but whether we’re aware we’re projecting, and how we manage that projection.
Hina seems to me to be doing a really good job around her own awareness, and is shading her posts with nuance, and understanding…
…leavened with compassion and empathy…
…even if you don’t agree!
I’m sorry, but they are not round brackets. No style manual, ever, has called them this, and stylizing your brackets as round would be misleading in langauges, and disastrous if you worked in STEM fields. I would double check your source on that. I bring this up with you only because you are claiming the contrary as fact. I mean no insult. I brought it up with Boris Moris because he claimed that by “bracketing [his] qualifier” it changed the meaning of his sentence. He was rudely insulting my reading comprehension skills since I did not recognize that using parenthesis was the same as bracketing, and that in either case this changed the meaning of his words. If you re-read what he wrote, it does not change the unintentional meaning of what he wrote. Correcting people’s language was an impolite thing for me to do, but I was quite irritated after five or so ad-hominem attacks from Boris Moris, who continues to harass me online.
rigid? Thank you. It is clear that she was a sociopath bud. And maybe one day you can have a sociopath for a daughter and have sympathy for her when she tries to murder you too.
They are indeed round brackets, and you, my dear Adam are a pedant.
Here:
“( ) — parentheses, brackets (UK, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia), parens, round brackets, soft brackets, or circle brackets”
I’m not your bud.
And, you simply have neither the diagnostic not clinical experience to state that anyone is a sociopath…
…just because you’ve picked up your psych knowledge from the tabloids and your TV.
I’ll accept the personal criticism, however, again, check your source on that: you are citing a non-extant reference on Wikipedia. You can corroborate just about anything on the Internet, but that doesn’t mean it is correct. If the APA, MLA, or any other relevant body agrees with you, please do share. I’d rather know the truth than be right.
You seem very educated.
You are right about everything. I hope you have a daughter like her someday.
I studied psychotherapy–primarily experiential–for 7 years, so I’d describe myself as experienced, rather than educated…
…and peace be with you.
Thanks for your kind thought, Mire!
But, I already have a daughter, one who is being brought up with unconditional love and practical and emotional support.
After all…there’s “no time to wallow in the mire” eh, QuangMire!
You’re a real sweetheart. Is trolling your full time occupation? Tough gig
Oh crap? Really? Oh man, I am so sorry. I didn’t know I was talking to someone who studied psychotherapy, primarily experiential for 7 years. Oh man I take back everything I said. I know nothing jon snow.
If you ever look into psychology or sociology they do studies and tests and dig deeper into things like this to provide statistics. Serial killers on average tend to be male, usually with mental illness, the overwhelming majority of them came from rough families, hard or strict upbringing or experienced some sort of trauma in their childhood like a divorce, passing of a parent or both parents, domestic violence/abuse, etc. The reason why these serial killers all posses extremely similar back stories is clearly becauee all the events and similarities are factors that lead them up to the point where they wanted to kill a lot of people. In ms Pans case it’s no different, if you were to research and study the lives and back stories of everybody who has ever killed theit parents you’d find many o the same things. This doesn’t mean every parent who is strict or abusive will be killed or ordered killed by their children but obviously it can be a factor along with many other things. Is it the parents fault? I wouldn’t say so but I definitely believe that their strict, over protective parenting style as well as their expressed strong desire for her to achieve such high goals is a huge factor in why she acted the way she did.
Preach brother preach, she had one credit left to graduate because she failed one course… if she hadn’t been under the pressure of her parents to do so well and get into university she would have been able to go back to school for another semester and complete that, get her diploma and still make it into college or even ryerson the following year! No one person I to blame for any of the events that occurred, the blame lies evenly with many parties involved. And to be frank… blame doesn’t matter a this point, what’s done is done and it can’t be changed and life just keeps moving forward.
Open your eyes, and read the truth, then: English is a fluid language…
…there are many usages with which both you and I are not familiar.
And, the use of the expression “brackets” for () is common.
If your idea of being ‘right’ with regard to language is “it has to be in a book written by an authority acknowledged by Adam Catalyst”…
…then we’re back to pedantry.
You might want to consider the option of not playing with yourself.
I hope your confused and irrelevant pedantry doesn’t dissuade anyone from considering enrollment in English Lit courses. Your gutless failure to respond to the glaringly obvious mistakes you’ve made here underline the fact you have zero intellectual integrity.
Keep spinning little catalyst. Your pretentious web is providing much amusement.
To back-track here… someone said they “bracketed” something which in their opinion changes its meaning, and you are arguing that it is strictly pedantic to argue this point since “bracketing” is commonly understood as writing something in parenthesis, and apparently making it mean the opposite of what the writer has written. You argue this repeatedly, name calling someone who would argue against your assertion with proof that you cannot refute with a single dictionary, language authority, or even corroborated by a single human being other than yourself, and a non-extant Wikipedia citation that you hold up as proof. OK, you win. APA is wrong. MLA is wrong. Science is wrong. Technology is wrong, Engineering is wrong. Math is wrong. Parenthesis & brackets are both called brackets in your opinion, therefore this is right. Furthermore, what you put in “round brackets” means the opposite of what is written, because Boris Moris says so and language is fluid. You win. You successfully learned nothing, despite my best efforts. Please leave me alone now. I concede that I was wrong, and that brackets and parenthesis are the same thing, and that bracketing is a commonly understood verb that means to place text in parenthesis. I will not argue anything to the contrary.
You are also so sensitive as to become boorish…
Thus, to up the ante on the name-calling:
You are a boorish, pedantic nag with a rigid mind, much of which gets fired up by your undue sensitivity.
Why is that a bad thing? Is there something in your one weekend course of psychotherapy that says that is bad?
Only bad in the sense that it seems to have deleteriously affected your reading comprehension.
But maybe it was not self-stimulation that created the effect in you…other things can have the same impact e.g. drinking without head-protection, drugs et cetera…
Which is it with you?
Or, is it all of the above?
Yes, you are right. Please leave me alone now, any further attacks will be considered harassment.
Please leave me alone, any further attacks will be considered harassment.
I’ll reply to or comment on your posts whene’er the mood takes me.
Thanks Hina. I think we’re witnessing a cri de coeur from Adam. This article has stirred up some deep seated issues for many posting here.
I had a privileged upbringing with loving parents and now live in the paradise of the Gulf Islands in BC. I followed my bliss and have a culture related business in Europe. However I have struggled to have empathy for others and only in recent years have I developed a keener sense for what makes people tick. This is essential for understanding what is behind the actions of others.
The big picture take away from this tragedy is that striving for material success and status in the community has become more important than striving for personal and spiritual fulfillment.
In no way is this disturbing trend an Asian or recent immigrant thing. The predominant culture in Canada is British/American and their past and current history of imperialism is rife with brutal elitist paternalism. This sets the tone and creates an environment where material success trumps our most basic sense of decency. Winning becomes the only thing and children are not allowed to be children.
If you need a lawyer I would advise against hiring Jennifer’s defense team. ;)
And if you think this so called “harassment” is actionable you’re a bigger fool than you’ve already demonstrated.
No, I criticized your reading comprehension for other reasons which I’ve already listed here. Thanks for providing another example of your lack of intellectual integrity.
I mentally shake hands with you.
Merci mon cher. Enchante
As a second generation who grew up in very much a similar environment, I feel like I’ve grappled with the causality/blame of this kind of vicious cycle my whole life. My mother was the coldest, the harshest, the most eager to push me to my limits just so I could be competitive with the children of her prestigious friends. It wasn’t even about me, I felt like, but about her own pride, her own image. It went beyond “saving face” to “showing off,” and feeling like a trophy pissed me off, naturally.
What we absorb during our formative years affects us all differently. Two children growing up in the same household under similar stimulus – say, twins, or siblings close in age – may exhibit completely different reactions, and develop completely different coping mechanisms. Even children who grew up in relatively low pressure, nurturing families can get into the wrong friends circle or experience some other outside stimulus, and turn out just like Jennifer did. However, I grew up in a town with many households similar to Jennifer’s, and I can say that this kind of high pressure is almost universally damaging. It is very, very difficult for a ten or fourteen year old to be mature enough to understand that their parents’ actions are for their own good. It is very difficult for kids at these ages to cope in an emotionally healthy way, simply because they’re not emotionally developed yet. Why are teenagers encouraged to not have sex? Because they’re simply not at an age to cope with the emotional fallout of it. High pressure discipline, especially physical discipline, is much the same in terms of its emotional impact. A child living in a “tiger” Asian household is *predisposed* to be emotionally scarred by the experience. Those who manage to turn out fine, with no psychological scars, are the exception, not the rule. It is not a matter of the child being emotionally “weak” or “strong”: those who don’t exhibit any scars are merely lucky, and have some auspicious DNA/life experience that allowed them to rise above it long enough to mature into adulthood.
Now, in my mid-twenties, I have virtually no grievances left with my parents. I have a stable job and a stable life, which I attribute in large part to the educational opportunities that I was given by my parents, and though my mother still throws barbs at me whenever she can about how I’m not living up to expectations (for example, I’m almost thirty and still single), it feels entirely innocuous to me now – words from a woman who simply does not share my worldview. I can live with that. I’ve had plenty of classmates, bosses, coworkers who didn’t share my worldview, and we learned to get along fine. But when I was younger, I also falsified report cards. I told lies to my parents about programs and classes I got into and really didn’t. I managed to accomplish enough by the end of high school to keep my parents satisfied, so luckily I didn’t need to continue lying into college and my later years; still, had I not been able to achieve what I did, had I not been able to satisfy my parents, I might have.
Which is all just to say, when you put your children in this kind of environment when they are younger, the chances that they will grow up messed up is incredibly high. I’m lucky in that I had the support of great friends, and not debauch, amoral friends like Jennifer’s, to provide me with the perspective and emotional support that I needed to get past the issues left me by my parents’ particular brand of discipline. However, the line is thin, as you can see. At any point I could’ve come across people or information that pushed me closer to Jennifer’s story than my own. I would never kill my parents; I think most people feel that way. But there are so many more stories of second generation Asians that don’t make the news for homicide – instead for suicide, for other disturbing behaviors. Or, less dramatically: low self-esteem, social anxiety, compulsive lying, the inability to form emotionally healthy relationships. The fault for Jennifer’s parents’ murders does not lie with Jennifer’s parents, that is for sure. But it does lie with the systematic “tiger parent” mentality that is prevalent in first generation Asian households (though, of course, other cultures exhibit this parenting style too).
Not everybody pushed to the edge of a building will jump. Jennifer, whether due to psychological issues or the accumulation of disappointments in her life, jumped. This is an isolated and deeply unfortunate incident, and Jennifer certainly holds the blame for pulling the trigger on this homicide plan. However, what it is that pushes so many people to the edge of the building in the first place is worth discussing also.
This is a classic example of the stereotyping dilemma. Stereotypes exist (and certain tasteful parodies of them are funny & resonate) because there is inherent truth in them. However, people are individuals; labels are intrinsically politically incorrect, and can be deeply offensive. Therefore, in attempt not to commit an offensive Type 1 error, we as a society have overcompensated by frequently committing Type 2 error: we disregard any truth that may exist in a stereotype.
I am an second generation Asian who spent all my life before college in a predominantly Asian American town. I can speak from personal experience that this parenting style is prevalent in Asian American households, those of immigrants to this country. I cannot speak for any other cultures, of course. Our parents were shaped by their own upbringings in what were predominantly poor, highly competitive societies; if they were wealthy back in their home country, chances are that in the 70s, 80s, 90s, they would have just stayed there. The ones who came to the States came looking for opportunities that did not exist at home.
As a result, they all developed a very stringent and competitive mentality. Because they were, for the most part, poor, money became of tantamount importance, and grades/extracurriculars = college = money. Competition with their peers is in their nature, because in order to get food and resources our parents had to compete intensely with their peers. Their parenting styles reflect that. They want their kids to maximize their chances at NOT being poor, and they want to compete with their peers by showing off their kids.
This all makes sense. It makes sense why our parents were the way they were (parents just like Jennifer’s), but it also makes sense this kind of high pressure environment is tough on kids. When kids are younger, they have no emotional coping mechanism. They simply haven’t developed it yet. Some kids, by finding good friends and having a good sense of community like my friends and I did, cope relatively better. Some people, like Jennifer, with her truly horrible friends and patricidal boyfriend who dates other girls intermittently, cope HORRIBLY. For the homicide, Jennifer and her friends deserve 100% of the blame. However, for the accumulation of psychological baggage that led to Jennifer’s personality disorders? That is a much harder question to answer. It is certainly not as simple as “her parents were horrible people.” Her parents were mostly rational people, from what I’m reading, merely reacting to their own life experience and trying to improve on it for the next generation. So how do we mitigate the negative effects of this kind of parenting?
And this is where I disagree with you, Adam, and your many comments on this article. Those who are calling for an examination of culture on here are not trying to draw patterns where none exist to comfort themselves, but rather are reacting to a lifetime of bearing witness to these patterns in their communities and in their home lives. These people are merely pointing out this reality, which is that there is consistent evidence of a systematic flaw in the parenting styles of some cultures — ones that focus purely on discipline, disregarding any kind of healthy, open, emotional communication. I firmly believe it is a discussion that needs to be had, and should not be silenced in favor of avoiding Type 1 error.
Think about stomach cancer that causes an ulcer. It is a very loose analogy, so please don’t take issue, but it illustrates the dynamic here decently. Systematic “tiger parent” culture is like a tumor that sometimes causes issues and sometimes doesn’t. Some people grow up fine, and some people like Jennifer are when the cancer begins to really rear its ugly head. The ulcer, the secondary cause (the parents), is not the actual main problem. The pain and bleeding, the symptoms that the cancer exhibits (Jennifer) need to be dealt with properly and effectively (as she has been, by the legal system). However, the underlying cancer must still be addressed, and the underlying problem here is a cultural issue.
I agree with nearly everything you wrote here, I think it is spot on. My issue is with the underlying assumption that Jennifer was abused. Her abuse has never been proven, in fact, it wasn’t even alleged in court. Jennifer and her attorney did not even argue that she was under “duress”, arguably a lower standard of extenuating circumstance than abuse. Considering Jennifer’s confirmed propensity for lying, I would personally take the word of the social workers and legal professionals over the stories Jennifer only told her friends, but wouldn’t repeat once she was under oath. To use your excellent analogy: what we know is that she had an ulcer, and that stomach cancer can cause ulcers, and that she may have had a predisposition to stomach cancer. Of course that doesn’t mean that she necessarily had stomach cancer. In fact, most people with ulcers don’t get them from stomach cancer, and while she told a select few people she had stomach cancer, no doctor ever diagnosed her with such. Yes, of course, cancer is bad, but is that even what this is about?
It disturbs me that people are feeling sympathetic towards this stupid, stupid, DISGUSTING human being. What is also shocking to me is the fact that her lawyer never made an attempt to present her to the public as mentally disturbed. Even though no person in their right mind would believe that this girl was schizophrenic per se, at least TRY to make this girl seem less guilty than she is. This idiot was never physically abused by her parents. They never abandoned her and left her to die, nor were they crackheads that paid no attention to their kid. With this being said, I’m finding it hard to believe that people feel pity for this girl? Sorry but if you are ANY race outside of caucasian (asian, hispanics, blacks) your parents left their home country and gave up their lives for your future. And they don’t make these sacrifices for you to half-ass everything and flunk out of school. If she didn’t get into university that is on HER. Furthermore, why is it that at 22 years old, this girl had never had a drink or been to a club? The excuse, “Her parents were strict” does not cut it. When you are OVER 18 years old you are an adult. If her life was sooooo hard (insert boo hoo cry) I don’t understand why she didn’t get a job and find her own place like a normal, responsible adult? Not to mention this girl is clearly a psychopathic, manipulative & pathological liar. How do you not only lie to your parents, but to EVERYONE around you?! This imbecile is BEYOND delusional. She very well deserves to rot in hell for hiring hitmen to murder the people who gave her LIFE. Next sob story please. There are MANY successful people out there who were abandoned early on, put up for adoption, raised by abusive parents, or neglected by their drug-using parents. I don’t see them hiring hitmen.
“Yes, of course, cancer is bad, but is that even what this is about?”
Right now this is about a pedantic blowhard who loves the sound of his own words so much he can’t hear others unless there’s a shot at doing some damage control.
“By November 12, Hann had woken up from his three-day induced coma.”
To induce the coma they showed him his daughter’s real report cards.
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READ READ regarding this article.
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I went to school with Jennifer AND the author of this article, Karen Ho. I was in band class and we had the same group of friends. I also went on that tour in Europe and performed at the Jewish centre in Toronto as well. I was ALSO in the same HOME T.A group as Karen’s younger brother and we were pretty tight.
This article is very bias on the fact that Karen herself had “tiger parents” and struggled with people accepting her “overconfident and overbearing” behaviour. Karen always hung around boys and like sports and being “rough” more than being a typical female high school student.
I also was in science class with Jennifer Pan. She is COLD BLOODED. I saw her steal test answers from the science teacher’s desk and she also stole sheet music from the music room. She also painted over someones drawing during the science fair where we had to draw all over the school.
A chemical imbalance or a hard upbringing should not discount the fact that she planned these murders way in advance and attempted to execute it to perfection. I wonder if Karen would say all this stuff about Jennifer if she wasnt arrested? Funny.
Also: Karen’s younger brother was caught dealing weed as well in high school :/ He also stole the TI 83 graphing calculators from Mr. Rossi’s class and gave it to her and myself as well. BIASED
nvm!!
Her punishment was grounded for 2 weeks when her parents found out the truth? That’s nothing! Others are thrown out of the house. Excommunicated. Told to fend for themselves. Some are beaten. Some are shipped off to distant relatives in a remote location.
As a child of Asian immigrant parents who were considered the strictest among my friends’ parents at university besides unloving, I have a good idea of what Jennifer faced.
Her story boils down to the choices she made … evil choices …. repeatedly.
Middle school is when the bright kids begin to differentiate themselves from the B students. Even more so in grades 9 & 10 as kids track for AP classes. Jennifer chose the cowardly path each time she had a choice.
As her web of lies grew, she kept choosing deception and despicableness over honesty and virtue. I know of what I speak, for unlike Jennifer I stood up to my parents repeatedly, even eschewing their economic support in my sophomore university year to work my way through Cal.
Despite receiving minimal punishment compared to other Asian immigrant parents, this depraved, gutless toad chose an evil path every time.
Lock her up and throw away the key.
You’re judging her by parochial Western standards. You clearly have no idea how duty-bound children of Asian immigrants feel. No one forced her to make evil choices. She could have left the economic safety of her parents, and fended for herself. Her choices over the years were cowardly, lowlife, evil.
Not all parents want the best for their child. Sad, but true. As the 9th daughter of Asian immigrant parents, I could tell you a very sad story. Suffice to say that unlike my older sisters, I refused to lie to my parents, sneak behind their backs, and other deceptive tricks. My life was far, far from easy, but I made it my life, not my parents’.
It’s surprising how good you can get at manipulation with parents like this. Back when I did chinese school, I made a ton of friends with kids who were raised to be “trophy children”, and I found out how goddamn lucky I was to be born the second child- my sister had already fulfilled most of the “AP, dozen math awards, music awards and thousands in scholarship money” goals that immigrant parents set. These kids knew how to lie, confuse, misdirect and generally control their parents from the inside out to stay afloat- I’m surprised I don’t hear about stories like Jennifer’s more often
Why was Daniel jailed? Seems like he tried to stop the plans at the last minute.
Stupid, its NOT the parents fault. FELIX has the SAME PARENTS as Jennifer, and he turned out just fine.
Box someone in and make them desperate, they will revolt in due time.
Groomed to be a sociopath, this girl’s story should surprise no one. Children need to be encouraged to do well and rewarded for their accomplishments, but the end never justifies the means, as they say, and children who are driven sometimes become adults who have been driven mad.
I agree that the grounding and cellphone punishment needed to be accompanied by serious psychological therapy. Pathological liars can’t ever stop once they get on the wheel. They keep on chasing something that isn’t even there. That is a kind of madness that we encourage in hamsters, but probably doesn’t work well with humans. Getting off the wheel would have taken deep therapy work for the entire family, something that isn’t addressed in this article.
Are you some kind of therapist or teacher or something? If not, you probably should be because you have a real understanding of exactly what is happening with this particular issue. Being exactly right isn’t necessarily a good place to be since so many people don’t get it at all, but you are exactly right! When people are forced to become something that is a lie, they start telling lies and can’t stop until somebody dies.
I’m a (partial) product of “Tiger parenting” as well here in the US. Though my own parents weren’t quite as strict as Jennifer’s and I’ve never had to be such a scam artist to get by, I know exactly how she feels re: how to live up to such demanding pressures. It can easily break you, or at the very least leave you with deep emotional scars.
It’s time for this method of parenting be modified to take into account the child’s feelings. True, academic success is of paramount importance, but do we really want to raise our children to have such damaged pysches and bitter memories? It can even lead to extreme PTSD and suicide in the most intense cases (there’s really no shortage of testimony in that regard; it’s easily researchable).
It’s time to take into account what Machiavelli wrote (paraphrased): sometimes it’s best to offer a combination of the carrot and the stick if you want your subjects to be truly successful and loyal.
“Tiger parenting” has undoubtedly resulted in success for many children. However, the tragedy of the Pan family sheds some needed light on the dark side of this approach. Not all children, for a variety of reasons, are able to measure up to the demands of tiger parents. Not all children are able to earn 4.0+ GPAs or gain admission to prestigious universities. Unfortunately, too many tiger parents are unable to consider or accept that their children either cannot or do not wish to follow the paths that have been laid for them. Very few children with Jennifer’s upbringing kill their parents. However, far too many commit suicide. Had Jennifer’s psychological makeup and personality been slightly different, she might have taken her own life years ago. This, of course, would have been tragic as well, and her parents would be mourning the loss of their beloved daughter for the rest of their lives. In light of the severe sentence imposed on Jennifer, it does little good to continue to pillory her. The criminal justice system has settled the question of her culpability definitively. I agree with others that the focus should be on the wisdom of the tiger parenting approach. To avoid future tragedies, I hope that more tiger parents read this and similar articles and take the time to get to know their children better, and honestly reflect on whether this approach is truly in the best interests of their beloved.
It seems her mother did everything she could to help her daughter have a life. To have her killed as well is nothing but pure evil.
At 24, she could have easily left and went to live on her own. She had already demonstrated that she had the intelligence and ingenuity to survive outside her parents home. No matter how controlling her father was, she was an adult who couldn’t be stopped if she wanted to move away.
I’ll never get how people think they can outsmart the law. I’m not so sure she was all there, considering her intelligence and still thinking she’d get away with it? Once you involve another person in your plot, you’re caught. Nobody is going to take the rap for you. She had not only hired one guy, but went ahead and hired 3 more with the help of a 4th. That’s 5 other people who knew she wanted her parents killed and 3 who were actually present. Way too many to keep secrets and corroborate lies.
Just a sad story all the way around. Imagine how things would have went had she just moved out?
I can only imagine what the rest of Mr. Pan’s and son’s lives will be like. They lost a wife/mother and a daughter/sister. The pain and sense of emptiness from a loss like this can be all encompassing and incomprehensible for those who have not experienced it. For an agonizing time, every waking hour of the day can be filled with grief, sadness, anger, betrayal, trauma, guilt and other related feelings. It is common to replay past events over and over to try and make sense of things. Over time, the intensity of these feelings and thoughts should diminish. The past will not be replayed as frequently. But no one ever “gets over” the loss of a very close loved one when it happens unexpectedly and tragically as it did here. In certain communities, there is a lack of awareness of the value of long term grief counseling and support. My condolences to Mr. Pan and brother for your losses. I hope that you get the counseling and support that you both deserve.
Wow, how old are you people? Parents want the best for their kids because they don’t want them to struggle in life. Furthermore, her mother was anything but hard on her.
No matter Asain, or otherwise, parents love their children. Of course they’d be upset, but (and this is something none of you seem to get) they wouldn’t stop loving her. They proved this by letting up on her after “grounding” her. After what she did, I’d say that’s pretty mild punishment for any culture. That proves that had she just been honest, they would have eventually understood and dealt with it as a family. As I said, he mother didn’t push and actually comforted and showed her lots of love and understanding. So, she repaid her mother’s love, by having her killed.
I have no doubt in my mind that these parents loved their children and therein lies the break in life that she could have seen.
I know this because I’m old enough to understand not only her, but her parents as well. Pushing her wasn’t the worst thing in life. Many children are beaten and sexually abused.
On top of it all, she had a brother who she could have confided in as he was in the same boat. Supporting each other and giving each other the strength to be honest would have gone a long way. Of course, there is competition, but siblings experiencing the same upbringing have a common bond.
Jennifer had shown all the tendencies of being Westernized, as did her parents. Her mother was out “line dancing” without her father and he allowed it? No, this family was far from the constrictive culture they left behind by the time Jennifer was in high school.
It was greed that drove her. Grounded after 21? She had been in Canada long enough to break tradition. Furthermore, she had all the tools to survive without her parents, but instead she kept going back, not to be obedient as you may assume, but to maintain her lifestyle, not only with her parents, but with what she’d get when they died. Moving out on her own wouldn’t have been hard for this girl had she really wanted to do it.
No matter how you want to twist this and make it her parents fault, they can’t take all the blame. Jennifer is cold, calculating, devious and narcissistic (not far off a sociopath). Killing her mother blows the whole sympathy card.
Can she be forgiven? Of course! However, that doesn’t free her from paying for her crimes.
I have lived my life in a somewhat relatable experience to Jennifer’s. As the child of Asian immigrant parents, I was expected of many similar things that Jennifer was: straight A’s, musical expertise, specificity in social activities to name a few. Although I was capable of achieving these expectations, the pressure of these high expectations ironically hindered me from excelling. Having an older brother that never got a “B” or worse through his entire high school career certainly did not help. So when I got my first “C” in my first semester of high school, my parents were severely disappointed and extremely furiated. I recall locking myself in my room and my father breaking down the door to get inside just to continue screaming at me. When my parents finally got tired of my crying and left me alone for a bit, I packed a small bag and ran away from home (fortunately, I didn’t really have anywhere to go so I eventually came back to my house a few hours later). Everyone has their own way of dealing with such circumstances. Children may be inexperienced and immature, but they are not intellectually inferior. In the face of imminent emotional duress, some may hide or run away(as I did), some may destroy evidence of their shortcomings and falsify their results (as Jennifer did). Regardless, these events slowly build up over time, and if not confronted, they can lead to disorienting behaviors in the child’s future. Luckily for me, this make or break point happened to me early on in my academic career, and my parents gradually began to loosen this chokehold that had been inhibiting my success. As such, I began to have more freedom to think and work for myself, rather than for my parents. My grades went up, my social life and skills improved, I got into a great college that I love and currently still attend, and most importantly, I was following my own dream. Yet who’s to say that if my past had been different, that I wouldn’t have ended up in a similar situation as Jennifer has. Certainly, I cannot fathom the thought of killing my parents or anyone for that matter. But if I had gone down the path of faking my grades and hiding the truth and my parents expectations continued to grow, and if all those years of lying and false trust came crashing down in an instant, who knows what I might have done. I am not sympathizing with Jennifer for her irrational decisions nor am I blaming her parents for what has occurred. However, I understand very well the psychological struggle that Jennifer had been trying to cope with her entire life. This “tiger parenting” is undoubtedly a very large factor in a child’s emotional well-being. Obviously, it takes much more than a single factor to cause a child to behave in a such a way that Jennifer has, or even something a tad bit less extreme such as suicide, depression, social anxiety etc. For those of you that are saying, “I grew up in the same situation and I’m fine.”, you most of all should understand the inhibiting nature of these demands and pressures. Clearly, what she did was not morally justified, but looking beyond this unrealistically simplistic notion of good and evil, it is fairly evident that her upbringing played a crucial part in this unfortunate development.
You’re right and no matter how much people try to say that “we don’t understand the culture”, this was far from pending on the traditions of Asian cultures. Her father was traditional, but he also showed a lot of westernization. His wife going out line dancing and leaving him at home? This is not an Asian family that’s all caught up in tradition.
She was in full control of herself and the grounding was probably a joke to her at that age. She just went along because she had it easy at that point and was already planning killing them.
As horrible as I feel for saying this…honestly I feel like Jennifer got the raw deal here. Her dad…he got was he deserves, quite frankly. Poor Jennifer never got to have a life at all.
*Tips fedora*
Having read the comments here, I’m glad to see that more people are speaking up about their own experiences and shedding light on how this is not a black and white case. Jennifer did something wrong, no one is denying that. But why did she do it, what made her turn out this way, why did she feel that the only way to continue living was by killing her parents? There are very deep psychological and emotional troubles that children from such harsh upbringing suffer, and it’s about time we start recognizing that. I shared this below in the comments too, but I believe it needs to be read by others. We need to speak up about how this is damaging us as human beings. Our parents are not bad or evil, but their expectations from us can be too demanding and anyone could have gone down the path Jennifer did. Jennifer’s parents definitely did not deserve this. Think of what she must feel her self-worth is for her to commit such an abhorrent crime. How did it get that way? Link: https://medium.com/@nadiaz/the-secret-lives-of-immigrants-6d924ab30eda
Full agreement. I grew up in the California bay area as well, experiencing the same cultural upbringing you describe. Never once did I, or my peers for the matter, do what Jennifer did. I don’t see this so much as an indictment against “tiger parenting”, but rather the tale of a woman with untreated mental/ emotional instability, who very well may have been a sociopath and a pathological liar. It is an isolated incident that is only symptomatic of this woman’s evil.
Oh God stop being such a whiner. If you come and start being so condescending all over the discussion don’t expect much sympathy when you’re being called out for being a smarmy know-it-all.
And thanks for derailing the
interesting conversation into a chat about brackets and parenthesis>
I feel the story is a very eye-opening view into the whole “tiger parents” approach. Surely there is bias because the author is an acquaintance of Jennifer Pan and also has similar upbringing but I wouldn’t call it an unfair bias.
I’m sure many successes have come from tiger parenting, but not every child is able to cope with it. There are other ways and parents need to be very aware about what their children need, and also realistic about their children’s abilities.
I completely agree with you here. We certainly do not know whether there even was a cancer that caused the ulcer in Jennifer’s, and I’m inclined to agree with you about her lying proclivities — a lot of what she told the police is probably meaningless, considering how easily she lies and how the truth seems to mean nothing to her. I honestly think she has disconnected with reality to some degree, and lives in a world of her own fabrication. I think we’re on the same page.
All I wanted to say with my comment was that the “predisposition” that you mentioned deserves to be talked about. It’s not a matter of “assigning blame” but rather taking this opportunity to ask, how do cases like this shed light on what might be a negative side to competitive, high-pressure parenting?
Alexis is referring to Jennifer as an example, a potential result of a flawed parenting style. Whether you believe her to be or not is irrelevant. For those of us who grew up in this type of household, we know for a fact the issues are there. I can taste it like poison. To reiterate, everyone copes differently. For me, it drove me to near suicide. For some of my friends, they gave up on school to the point that their parents eventually gave up on them too. Do you really need a laundry list of cultures as evidence that this parenting style can be harmful? I think just one instance is bad enough.
You seem more caught up in right or wrong as the law sees it. For most of us, we don’t give a crap about that. The law did its job. We’re more interested in fixing the underlying problem.
Simply because you and your friends were able to cope well with this kind of upbringing and did not /murder your parents/ does not necessarily mean there is not a systematic flaw to this kind of parenting culture. Most people don’t murder their parents, or anybody. It is an highly extreme thing to do in general. I agree that this isolated story is not an “indictment” of tiger parenting, it is specifically about a young woman who had deep-seeded psychological issues, who was incapable of rationally dealing with adversity, and committed a heinous crime.
However, I think the author mentions culture/upbringing because the wider implications of high pressure parenting cultures on young children shouldn’t be discarded simply because the LEGAL case here is black-and-white. Do you think that a six-year-old choosing to falsify a report card to avoid getting yelled at and beaten by his parent has made an “evil” choice? When that works, when they get to avoid a deeply unpleasant ordeal with their parents and they keep doing it, is that them being a coward and choosing to live a cowardly life? Isn’t that giving children a little too much credit for emotional maturity?
I can say for sure that when I was younger and lied to my parents about all my false accomplishments and changed grades on report cards, I wasn’t trying to evil and I didn’t feel like coward. I was being hit continuously with negative stimulus (getting yelled at, being told I was a horrible kid), and I was just reacting to it. I actually felt rather clever, and like I was coping well. It was only as I grew older that I started to understand what it meant to be ambitious and diligent for my own sake, and why my parents treated me the way they did. But not every child in their developmental years experiences enough positive stimuli to come to that conclusion when they become an adult. It’s too simplistic to say that, “just because I and people I know turned out fine, there isn’t a problem here.”
I’m sorry, but you can’t fix the underlying problem until you can identify the underlying problem. I never argued that this parenting style is sound, or that this parenting style doesn’t have any correlation with culture, I argued that there is virtually no proof that this parenting style occurred in Jennifer’s household, and I argued that even if this was the parenting style of Jennifer’s parents, a pre-emptive solution seems far from “easy” as others have called it here.
This has nothing to do with the law, or morality, this has to do with seeing beyond our own presumptions so that we can try and make sense of what really happened here. If we fixate on the assumption that she was abused, and that this murder was caused by abuse, we ignore evidence to the contrary, and risk missing valuable insight.
I made my first suicide attempt at age 12 by swallowing a bunch of pills. By 16, I was cutting myself. My mom would tell me she wished she had an abortion. She beat me. She burned me with matches. My best was never enough. I’ve been through therapy. I’ve been on anti-depressants. I’ve been told “it’s not about you.” Now in my 40s, I have major depression, insecurity and anxiety issues. As lonely as this existence is, I can’t seem to function in relationships, romantic or platonic. I’m pretty much a hermit. I go to bed every day wishing I don’t wake up. I wish I could be a normal human being like everyone else, but I’ll never know. I am too damaged to be fixed. I just hope if this even resonates with just one parent, to change their course of action, that even if one person is spared this fate… then at least the things we’ve gone through won’t be for nothing.
I completely agree that this “pre-disposition” is a worthwhile topic of discussion, whether or not it had a role to play in this case. It opens up a brutally difficult can of worms… what action can we take as a society that wouldn’t effectively be “cultural-profiling”, or perhaps even worse, “racial-profiling”? Sometimes it seems like there is no just way to act on what we all know to be true. The uncomfortable truth is that children of east-asian immigrant families (among others) are at a higher risk of being subject to what many of people would consider dangerously high pressure. But what pre-emptive action could we take that wouldn’t be an infringement, or stigmatizing, towards asian immigrant parents? I have no idea. Parenting is such an odd realm of life, where we give families huge leeway to act as they see fit without society intervening, except in the most flagrant cases of abuse, and only then, if they are discovered. I can’t think of anything else so important that is so unregulated.
That last bit is so true — parenting is a very important thing that is unregulated, but it is rather impossible to regulate parenting, not to mention a whole ethical can of worms. Perhaps the solution isn’t as a society, some all-encompassing progressive measure, but rather individual families need to come to their individual revelations. In addition, certain individual students/kids may benefit from counseling or seeing a counselor just to talk to, and counselors/teachers should be aware that this dynamic exists in a lot of East-Asian households. I read an article recently about self-segregation in middle/high schools with high Asian student populations due to different academic standards. A lot of these school counselors and principals, while very well-meaning, are Caucasian, and simply don’t understand the kinds of pressures these kids are under. As a result, they’re not able to help. Maybe just awareness and a push for more intimate, open conversation between parents & kids, teachers/counselors & kids, will help kids develop a healthier outlook and healthier coping mechanisms during their formative years.
It certainly is a very interesting conversation. Thanks for engaging.
Can’t agree with that. As a child of similar immigrant parents, it’s REALLY wasy to think this during middle school, high school, especially with the ever-present “fuck the man for keeping me down” attitude of the West that Asian parents just can’t understand. It’s an attitude that ALL teenagers have, just exacerbated by parents that come from a different culture and who don’t understand the culture or expectations or even language of a new country.
BUT, as with all teenagers, a massively important part of becoming an adult is realizing that somethings that seemed awful at the time were actually done with your best interests in mind. Realizing that your parents are human and that they certainly made mistakes, but still tried to raise you as best they could, is called growing the fuck up. Something that Pan, for whatever reason, never learned to do.
This is true for the vast majority of immigrant parents, as best demonstrated by the fact that they immigrated at all. As you can tell from the story, Pan’s parents certainly didn’t leave a familiar country, where they knew the language and had friends and family, to go work hard labor jobs for their health. That’s not the behavior of people who just had their own interests at heart.
I can understand where Jennifer is coming from. My parents are Asian-Canadian immigrants. They worked hard to get to Canada and expected my sister and I to work as hard as them in order to create a better life for ourselves than they ever had. There were the same academic expectations and pretty much everything Jennifer went through, I and pretty much every other child of Asian-Canadian and Asian-American immigrants went through.
(warning: graphic content in the next paragraph, read at your own discretion. If you’re skipping it the summary is that I wanted to kill my father when I was 8.)
I was 8 when I first had the thought that I wanted to kill my father. I imagined that I would do it in the middle of the night when he was asleep, that I would use the huge cleaver that my mom used to chop chicken bones to pieces. I imagined it used it on his neck, slit his throat from ear to ear and he’d bleed out like the pig he always called me. Maybe I’d chop his head off, but I wasn’t sure I’d have the strength, so the carotid would have to do. I’d wash the cleaver and put it away, make sure to get rid of any finger prints but I’d leave the body in bed because I had no illusions I had the strength to move my father’s body. I was fairly certain the police would look to my mother as the number one suspect, so I decided I would confess to the crime right away to protect my mom because even though she wouldn’t leave my father regardless of how abusive he was to us, she was still my mom and tried her best to protect us. Also I thought, what were the police going to do to me? I was under the age of 18, they had to keep my name anonymous sure as hell wouldn’t try me as an adult. I’d be put under house arrest or something, put through mental health programs probably. (I knew enough about forensics when I was 8, but I didn’t have much of an idea of the judicial system and the way committing a crime of that magnitude can follow you through the rest of your life.)
I had these thoughts when I was 8 because my situation with my abusive father was that bad. It was the only way out that I saw for my sister, mom and I. My mom wasn’t leaving my dad and my dad wasn’t leaving on his own, and my sister and I couldn’t run away without being ferried back home by the police. To me, if I got rid of the cause of our troubles, we would finally have peace and finally not have to live in fear every day.
Jennifer Pan thought she had no way out of her situation but to kill her parents, the thing she saw as the source of all her problems. I can understand how she felt. To know that the people who should love you and make you feel safe and cherished are the ones causing you daily anguish and pain, it makes you feel like getting rid of them forever is the only way to make it all stop.
The difference between her and I, of course, is that she went through with it while morality stayed my hand. I wanted to kill my dad so badly, but I knew it was wrong and that’s the only reason the bastard didn’t get his throat slit by me in the last 16 years.
I don’t think this story should cause us to sympathize with Jennifer. We should empathize with her, but it shouldn’t make us feel like maybe she should get off easier. I had the same thoughts as her and I still think she did a stupid thing. I had abuse from my dad on top of high academic expectations (though that sometimes took less precedence than making sure I knew just how loud and annoying he found me to be even though I hadn’t said a word during dinner) and I did my fair share of lying mainly because I just didn’t want the screaming and hitting that followed not doing something well or properly (to his ever-changing standards). The best reward ever was not being on the bastard’s radar of hate.
After a while though, I got angry. I got pissed off that I had to lie to make him feel good and to make me feel safe and thought that if he couldn’t handle the truth of my humanity and how we couldn’t all be apparent super geniuses like my cousins back home then so be it he could eat the truth and choke on it for all I cared.
The problem is, Jennifer didn’t get mad. Not soon enough and when she finally did get mad, her outlet was absolutely in the wrong direction. Now her story has become a case of a very extreme reaction to an unfortunately common way that immigrant parents raise their children.
I think you’re right… somehow connecting children themselves with more options for resources they would trust might be the only palatable solution. Thank-you for sharing!
Yes. I agree. We would like to think that no matter what, a parent loves and protects their children. Which is a great thing that most are exposed to more positive family situations. But unfortunately it’s not always that way. And some parents use that thought from others to manipulate others into thinking its always the children’s wrong doing. I was badly abused verbally and physically by my stepfather, yet when my mother found out, she turned against me and tried to make everyone believe that it wasn’t the truth. That I was a liar. The unthinkable….. sad sad ……. i hope more people can start listening to how children are feeling these days as well.
Even demanding parents, even pressuring parents, even LENIENT parents can spawn a sociopath.
Way to not understand where they came from, with a TRULY hard life. Jennifer had First World problems: parents who could afford to send her out to school rather than sell her at age 10 or watch her work 12 hours/day in rice fields. How about that? Maybe you could have some sympathy for the murdered wife and widowed husband, not the killer.
Hmm.. I don’t think I’m the right person for this response. I agree that this kind of parenting is not good for children or their emotional well being/ emotional development. In fact, I think it can be very bad, especially to children that are more sensitive in temperament and are not as hardy/ resilient in spite of their environment. I, also, can speak to that experience as well as what I said in the earlier comment without contradicting. I don’t think many in my community, including myself, made it out without some form of scarring or at least some lasting impact from this kind of culture.
But, you’ve read a lot into my response, including the idea that I was condemning you, personally, for fabricating grades on your report cards as a child. I can see how a child that is put under unreasonable pressure would do such a thing. In no way did I say that was an evil action.
The amalgamation of actions that make up Jennifer Pan is what makes her evil. The fact that she unconscionably lies to her parents year after year, the fact that she plays the perpetual victim, refusing to empower herself by moving out or moving on, the fact that she hired hitmen to kill her mother and father: her mother who seemed to be her defender in this. That is what makes her evil. It appears this problem originates more from within herself than from the culture of her parents. And that is the case for why I don’t see this as an “indictment” against “tiger parenting”
Did you not read my comment? I feel sorry for the father (and the mother will I add now). I’m only stating that they are no innocent people. They treated their daughter like a doll, their poppet to control. That is not okay. This is not Asia. If you’re going to move to a better country why should you still act like you would die if you’re not successful.
Not saying that she was innocent or blameless.
Immigrants from the kind of life they led do not just leave that life behind. They also (gasp!) expect some gratitude and hard work from their children to maintain and improve the life THEY worked so hard to achieve. People like that have a fear of backsliding. The murdering little so and so was 20 and could have left and gone to work and not taken anything from her parents. Excuses, excuses.
Yes, I read your post. First World Attitude.
In Europe we had this thing where we would marry our daughters off to rich old dudes. Even gave a dowry so they could marry. Really, the parents thought it was the best for their daughters. But the daughters would almost always be unhappy. They had financial stability, a house, everything, but they were not unhappy. Back then it was perfectly normal, but nowadays it’s not accepted anymore.
Sure doing well in school is good for you, demanding that you should only get A’s is torture if it doesn’t come easy to you.
I have a friend who has a mother like that. It’s breaking her apart. She doesn’t leave because she still hopes that her mother somewhere still loves her. Pan lost that hope. She went crazy.
In Jennifer’s case, no, we don’t necessarily know what the underlying cause was. But that wasn’t my point. I’m certainly not fixating on whether she, personally, was abused. Going back to the analogy, finding out whether it was stomach cancer or something else that caused Jennifer’s ‘ulcer’ won’t do too much at this point. The damage is done; what I’m saying is that since parenting CAN certainly be a cause, it’s important to focus on that in itself.
Are there other non-parenting related causes that lead to violence (amongst other negative outcomes)? Yes, certainly. But given the context of this article and discussion, high-pressure parenting is the prevailing hypothesis. It’s also the one I relate to most, so it’s the one I’m most invested in amending
yup the parents were to blame!
lets see, she was going to pay the hit-men with the money from the inheritance, and she was going to live an easy life off the 500,000 from the inheritance so a successful crime was key in having her plan work. I wonder if eventually she would have offed the brother too so she wouldn’t have to split the inheritance. And after failing to kill her father she hit him up for $1,500 right after he came out of his coma.
You don’t necessarily have to choose one or the other, whether her parents strict upbringing created a ‘monster’ OR if she was a cold blooded sociopath – it’s possible that’s she’s a little of both. Maybe she has psychopath, sociopath tendencies that was amplified by the “tiger parenting” pressure.
https://jenniferpantrial.wordpress.com/
interesting read, including the prosecutions side. Someone took an serious interest in the trial and kept a detailed blog. she was definitely was focused and diligent on carrying out the idea of killing her dad and if mom, who she got along with, had to go too, so be it.
I bet she’ll start getting fan mail in prison.
Very well said. I like how you added parenthetically “(though, of course, other cultures exhibit this parenting style too).” I am not Asian but was raised by very low income Eastern European immigrant parents. I didn’t realize how poor we were growing up because my parents made sure to have enough food on the table for us, and enrol us in plenty of activities (like Jennifer’s parents and many others). Because my mom experienced so much difficulty with school (and so did I originally), she emphasized studying long hours every night to achieve academic success and I basically had no life. At all.
Even now, my peers are amazed I didn’t have the ‘normal’ childhood growing up because I look so ‘normal’, healthy and popular.. I’ve had employers casually say they thought I was probably a ‘party girl’ growing up because I’ve thankfully been blessed with good looks but it’s a double edged sword. Presumably because I’m not a visual minority, there’s an expectation of social normalcy and a path that I never achieved. Sometimes I just lie and say “Yes, I’ve seen those movies or of COURSE I know that band, and travelled there” when I was really detached for most of my 20s and didn’t bother with most of those ‘normal’ social activities. I also became depressed and anxious. This affects more than typical asians as well. I didn’t attend my first concert until I was in my late 20’s. Never went to a friend’s cottage like Jennifer at all, until… EVER (was invited but was always “too busy”); I just continued to study, get good grades and was paranoid about achievement because that was all I knew and was expected of me. I continued to do so in university, not attaining any sense of balance and didn’t even care about dating that much; no one was ‘good enough’ either. I was unable to form relationships, especially when my hours were so messed up. I napped at odd hours, pulled daily all-nighters, just to get A’s at a top university. I also lied constantly to get extensions and manipulated profs and TAs where necessary, befriending whoever was necessary. Then when the time came, I also got whatever was needed to ensure I’d be accepted to a top law school in the U.S. but the extent of my struggle is unknown and unseen. I graduated but have little faith in myself now… I ‘pulled’ so many strings to get by, I don’t even believe I can do it anymore. I don’t know what’s ‘real’ and what’s not; did I truly deserve all those A’s? What would have happened if I had lived a normal life; a normal childhood and adulthood? If I had never gone to law school? I struggled with my first associate job and am considering another career path now. I truly feel like I lost the best years of my life. There’s only so much ‘pretending’ you can do.
I form superficial relationships with people who like me based on looks and glib charm, but how much can you lie? I don’t know anything about the world as I haven’t had the chance to truly experience it. All I want to do right now is travel and live my life, make the most of my fleeting youth but I have too much debt to do so. That’s the cost of achievement, growing up in an immigrant community without connections and what makes the stakes so high. Yes, you can go to Harvard or UofT or whatever you desire; but at what cost? When you look back on your death bed, will you remember the grades or the people? I’m almost 30 now and regret so much but I don’t think it’s too late. I still struggle with how much to reveal; with how much to pretend. But honesty is sometimes the only way to truly connect and shape a different path. It may take longer to find your way growing up like this, but it’s not impossible. I believe this woman, Jennifer, lives with much greater regrets and hopefully she can build something honestly for herself, with the necessary integrity, insight and empathy to change. I wish her the best but do not sympathize with her decision — there’s always an honest way out.
It is a frightening situation to grow up in. I have a single mom that has raised me in similar circumstances. Back in the day divorce was considered shameful on the women’s part. People blamed the women for not being a proper wife to keep their husband. My mom took it out on me. It was a two sided situation. In the public eye, I was her trophy daughter. She loved when people told her how beautiful I was. While at home she would verbally rip me apart and make false accusations. She has told me that I had bad blood in me because my father was bad. She made me believe my father was horrible. She has called me horrific names. On the flip side she wanted to prove to people that she could be a strong successful mother using strict discipline. When people told her how lucky she was to have a beautiful daughter, I cringed. I was actually angry because people did not know how much I hurt, and all their comments validated her actions.
I grew up in an environment without support, love and nurture. My mom kept me captive at home. She didn’t trust people, so I wasn’t allowed to have many friends, spend time with them, or join extra school activities. People didn’t understand how painful life was and would judge me. Family blamed me for not being tough enough. I did poorly in school and suffered depression. I didn’t want to exist. When everything is so painful and negative in your life, all that you know and can talk about is the pain. People don’t take negativity well, so you end up just keeping it all inside. Even if you don’t wan to hide it, there isn’t anyone who wants to listen.
The one thing that kept me surviving was the power of questioning. Why was it so painful to have a good heart? I knew I was a good person, but why was it so painful to be good. That simple logic didn’t make sense and I made the decision to leave. I ran away from home. It was scary since I had been so sheltered for so long, but it was the best time in my life. Although I worked 2 full time jobs, did not eat well, and had to take the bus and walk late at night, I felt so free. During this time I met someone and had a very unhealthy relationship. I never experienced love, support and nurture, so I latched on to him. The power of his hug could not be described. I’ve only hugged my mother once and that was when I lost this boyfriend. Even in that case my mother blamed me for the failed relationship.
I gave my mother several chances. I carried the guilt of leaving my single mother behind. Every time I returned, it all came back. I do suffer with confidence issues and I always imagine what I could have been with love, support and nurture. Today I am married to the most amazing guy. He is very understanding and compassionate. I do have post traumatic stress disorder, but I am in a healthier situation. I have chosen not to see my mother.
All of this has made me a compassionate person. It is very disappointing to me when people can’t think a little deeper and judge. Some people with healthy families don’t understand and are really hard on people like me. I think this topic is very important and wish there was a way to reach out and support young Asian-Americans. I feel like people just endure the circumstances and hide it because they want to create the perfect persona. I always wanted to write a biography so that others can relate and know they are not alone, but my writing skills are not great.
Yeah she’s definitely getting a letter from me.
I am not Asian but was raised by very low income Eastern European immigrant parents. I didn’t realize how poor we were growing up because my parents made sure to have enough food on the table for us, and enrol us in plenty of activities (like Jennifer’s parents and many others). Because my mom experienced so much difficulty with school (and so did I originally), she emphasized studying long hours every night to achieve academic success and I basically had no life. At all.
Even now, my peers are amazed I didn’t have the ‘normal’ childhood growing up because I look so ‘normal’, healthy and popular.. I’ve had employers casually say they thought I was probably a ‘party girl’ growing up because I’ve thankfully been blessed with good looks but it’s a double edged sword. Presumably because I’m not a visual minority, there’s an expectation of social normalcy and a path that I never achieved. Sometimes I just lie and say “Yes, I’ve seen those movies or of COURSE I know that band, and travelled there” when I was really detached for most of my 20s and didn’t bother with most of those ‘normal’ social activities. I also became depressed and anxious. This affects more than typical asians as well. I didn’t attend my first concert until I was in my late 20’s. Never went to a friend’s cottage like Jennifer at all, until… EVER (was invited but was always “too busy”); I just continued to study, get good grades and was paranoid about achievement because that was all I knew and was expected of me. I continued to do so in university, not attaining any sense of balance and didn’t even care about dating that much; no one was ‘good enough’ either. I was unable to form relationships, especially when my hours were so messed up. I napped at odd hours, pulled daily all-nighters, just to get A’s at a top university. I also lied constantly to get extensions and manipulated profs and TAs where necessary, befriending whoever was necessary. Then when the time came, I also got whatever was needed to ensure I’d be accepted to a top law school in the U.S. but the extent of my struggle is unknown and unseen. I graduated but have little faith in myself now… I ‘pulled’ so many strings to get by, I don’t even believe I can do it anymore. I don’t know what’s ‘real’ and what’s not; did I truly deserve all those A’s? What would have happened if I had lived a normal life; a normal childhood and adulthood? If I had never gone to law school? I struggled with my first associate job and am considering another career path now. I truly feel like I lost the best years of my life. There’s only so much ‘pretending’ you can do.
I form superficial relationships with people who like me based on looks and glib charm, but how much can you lie? I don’t know anything about the world as I haven’t had the chance to truly experience it. All I want to do right now is travel and live my life, make the most of my fleeting youth but I have too much debt to do so. That’s the cost of achievement, growing up in an immigrant community without connections and what makes the stakes so high. Yes, you can go to Harvard or UofT or whatever you desire; but at what cost? When you look back on your death bed, will you remember the grades or the people? I’m almost 30 now and regret so much but I don’t think it’s too late. I still struggle with how much to reveal; with how much to pretend. But honesty is sometimes the only way to truly connect and shape a different path. It may take longer to find your way growing up like this, but it’s not impossible. I believe this woman, Jennifer, lives with much greater regrets and hopefully she can build something honestly for herself, with the necessary integrity, insight and empathy to change. I wish her the best but do not sympathize with her decision — there’s always an honest way out.
She did this for years. She could have gone back to school and that credit during this entire time she’s been lying. She then could have went to college and got a degree. Her parents still hadn’t given up on her they were still okay with her getting a different job, There were a million other things she could have done other than this.
School is good, but it’s not worth trading over for sanity. There is a limit on everything, you need a bit of each. I don’t care if I can’t get 100% on everything, as long as I learn what was taught and enjoy the work. This is coming from an Asian family( also Vietnamese too), but my parents are open minded. They do not punish me for not doing well, but instead reward me when I excel. I can understand the reason for both the parents and Jennifer’s side, since I have a cousin who is in a similar, but not as worse situation.
but she WAS working according to article! parents made her quit those jobs. how logical is that? they probably thought she could go back on the path of success and still become their cherished trophy kid. and everyone would pretend that there was no misstep along the way. saving face was way too important.
they refused to realize that it’s ok not to succeed and become a lawyer/doctor/engineer. should have let her keep working whatever jobs she had, let her live with Daniel and marry him. everyone would be better off. failure is better than poor ethics and no moral standards.
ah, but then they would lose control over her. and think about what they would tell their friends and relatives!
This is a Canadian family with a daughter that’s a sociopath.
parentheses are a subset of brackets. what’s your point?
also, usage varies between different English-speaking countries, so lay off the grammar-nazi mode ;)
Yes. Thank you. These parents were living through their children’s achievements instead of letting them blossom at their own pace, find their interests, etc. It’s incredibly destructive. I understand the parents want a visible payoff for their sacrifices. That’s what fancy houses and cars are for, if you’re into that kind of thing.
Yet they displayed the trappings of their wealth, which to them included two high-achieving children along with all the “stuff.” So the parents DID benefit from their hard work. Either way, though, if they decided to toil endlessly on behalf of their kids without knowing who those kids are and what they love, that’s fucked up. Children aren’t born to reflect greatness onto their parents.
The focus should be on her father, mother, and brother.
I feel for your friend. Can you help her gain some distance and notice that her mother’s ambitions are not your friend’s obligation?
I don’t know if I mentioned it in any of my earlier comments but when parents put such a high restrictive wall like that around their children it changes their minds… it’s called mental abuse and it affects children into adulthood. Jennifer parents were raised in Asia under strict and harsh circumstances I’m sure and it affected them and the way they raised their children. They raised their children the way they had been raised becauee they I’m sure would not have known any other way. Jennifer took a different turn, she was being raised under strict rule of her parents however she saw other people from normal families behaving differently and she wanted to experience that but because of the way her mind was affected by her upbringing she wasn’t able to think through and see a broad picture. She has a beautiful intricate well developed mind but some things failed to develop or were repressed and her actions reflect that. She was able to justify her actions to herself and she was able to weave a vast Web of lies and deception and keep it going for quite some time but if you think about that’s the only way she knew how to cope and survive and it took up so much of her time and brain capacity that she didn’t have the room to realize something like that. It’s called mental illness and it affects a vast percentage of the population including myself
It is possible that all parents love their children (I’d be surprised if this were completely true, but whatever. I work with parents and kids for a living and am educated in this area). However, when they attempt to live through them and gain status for themselves at their children’s expense, they are not behaving in a loving fashion. It’s not “best for the children” to have only studying in their life. It’s not best for them if you determine their path and make it clear you will withhold love and approval unless their program is performed to high, ruthless standards. These are selfish actions. They may feel culturally imperative but nevertheless, this kind of pressure is very destructive. The Tiger parents need to find a new way.
Parents who expect hard work and gratitude from their children aren’t really in it for the right reasons. We bring children into this world and care for them for ~ 20 years in order to bring out *their* character, to find *their* interests, and to help them through hard times. Children didn’t ask to be born, didn’t ask their parents to work miserably hard. The world you describe doesn’t lead to satisfaction and fulfillment.
I think I might understand your sentiment, but don’t want to speculate. Please help me out a little bit. Why, and for what purpose?
Well said.
You are so brave for being so honest and upfront about who you are and how you have been shaped by your life. Thank you for sharing that with us.
There’s no denying that her harsh unbringing had at least something to do with it. There’s also no question (as I’ve written before, below) that this “educational parenting” model needs some serious reform for the child to be both successful and psychologically happy. But this in no way exculpates Jennifer from the ultimate responsibility for her murderous actions. As an adult, she had the free agency and knowledge to pick otherwise, so the fact that she didn’t speak volumes about her moral compass. Maybe she was mentally ill on some level, but it’s no defense or justification at all.
Is it better to commit suicide than murder? I don’t know.
But when I’ve been pushed by my family, I’ve never bent or bowed – I’ve always fought back, usually quite angrily. In the end, I moved away and cut off communication; after 3 decades I still rebuff them completely.
I think Jennifer’s biggest problem was that she didn’t know how to plan an escape and Daniel was no help. She kept up the lies for years so that meant she should have been able to bank some of the money she was earning and plan to move out or move away.
And she had years to find something she was good at or enjoyed doing.
But her father is wrong.
He didn’t lose his daughter when his wife was murdered – he suffocated his eldest child a long time ago and the creature that tried to fit into the trophy case he wanted so badly was merely wearing Jennifer’s body.
I can tell that you feel have strong feelings about how justice should be meted out. Feeling the way that you do, would you have helped Jennifer implement her plan? Would you have facilitated the hiring of a hitman? Would you have pulled the trigger yourself? Are you willing to tell Dad to his face that he deserved what he got, that his wife deserved to slaughtered in the basement of her home with a blanket pulled over her head? Poor Jennifer was raised in a difficult household, and never got to have a life, but as others in the comments have pointed out, they were raised in similar circumstances, but didn’t hire a hitman to kill their parents. Anger often obscures the pursuit of justice.
I don’t think I said anywhere that her upbringing was a justification or defence of her actions. We need to take this opportunity to dig deeper into these issues and start a dialogue about what kind of harmful effects such upbringings have on a person’s mental health. I’m not saying she was innocent or free of blame, but we can’t just file this incident under “a mentally ill person who cracked” and move on. If we don’t want more incidents like these, we need to start examining these issues in detail and not ignore the warning signs, this case being a prime example of that.
I am the 1st generation immigrant from Vietnam as well.
I work hard to support my family of 4. But that is not why I’ve pushed my children hard.
I will push but I won’t force them onto anything that they don’t like.
I let my son tried sports–basketball, swimming, soccer, etc. But if he does not like them, I let him quit. Same with music.
I’ll tell/explain to them what I think may be good for them. They will tell me why they think otherwise.
I work late hours but I still find time to work with my children in math, science, etc.
I’ve always told my children I am their father but am also their friend.
There is nothing they can’t tell me.
I won’t get upset if they get Bs. I will only get upset if they don’t try hard.
I work hard for them.
Hence, they work hard for themselves as well.
Their lives and successes are my top priorities in my life.
Hence, they should also be their top priorities as well.
This is really well-written journalism.
What makes you think she was given the option of moving out? Would you move out if you knew that your family didn’t approve and may potentially disown you for taking such a stand? It’s easy to say “oh she should have just left” if you don’t understand how years of manipulation and blackmailing leave an impact on a person’s ability to think rationally and make logical choices.
Agreed. The criminal justice system has already adjudicated her guilt, and her punishment has been decided. Piling on and raging about the wrongfulness of her conduct doesn’t help anyone. It is too late to change what she did, although she may be a different person when she is 49 years old. The focus needs to be forward looking, with an eye towards dealing with and confronting the circumstances that lead a child down the path that Jennifer took.
This girl has psychopath written all over her. Plenty of Asian immigrant children has gone through the same as her. Some are a bit bruised in the process; most turn out just fine. From what I can see reported here, her parents are your usual over-protective, over-bearing Asian parents who one generally needs to suffer a bit to break away from.
But what she did, from the first time she fabricated report card in 9th grade (I was never that inventive, although I had to come up with some creative ways of explaining my report card back in 6th grade) all the way through making up an elaborate lie about attending university for four years–this is clearly far beyond what most people are capable of. The cold-blooded murder of her parents, including her mother who seems to be loving, understanding, and sympathetic on all accounts, places the diagnosis beyond all doubt.
She meets full diagnostic criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder (i.e. psychopathy). We need to stop blaming her father, who is the victim and not perpetrator in this tragic story.
ASPD diagnostic criteria:
A) A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others, occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:
-failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
-deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
-impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
-irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
-reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
-consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
-lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
B) The individual is at least age 18 years.
C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.
D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.
Couldn’t agree more with you. I just wanted to bring it out in the open that her upbringing doesn’t excuse her actions in case anyone really thought otherwise. And yeah, this type of parenting method really needs to be tempered with reality.
I can relate in that my parents are traditional and Asian. They expected and still expect a lot but more silently. They trust that i will excel because I am highly capable without any mental and learning issues. That silent, looming trust that I always felt over my head gave me intense pressure BEFORE because I thought that I could not meet their expectations ever. After getting older and maturing a bit, I realized they love me and want me to do my best, in whatever I choose, academically and professionally. I feel more at ease because I found something I want to excel in and do well. If only she was not so distracted and gave herself some time to think about her family and situation, she could have been honest with herself and family about everything and chose a different path, not acting upon her emotions that she could and would not sort out.
Question: Where was the high school in this? When she failed to graduate, no phone call to the parents? No teacher bothered to check with the office to see if Jennifer passed that one course? Not saying that they should be doing that but…kind of odd that the system would just allow kids to fall out like that without some kind of follow up. Hey, I get it if you want to quit school, but I’m checking with the parents to see that they’re in the loop on this great Plan B…
her parents were not her jailors. this girl never wanted to get out. i had parents like this, but worse. i tried my hardest to get good grades to escape. college would mean moving away from my family and finally being allowed to have freedom. this girl did not run away from home and build a new life someplace else. she wanted to be her parents’ golden child. when her lies were found out, any hope of her parents being proud of her (what she perceived as love) was gone forever. her logic, why bother, why even try, if it’s not acknowledged? this led her to decide, why even try to get them to love me? they never will. so she decided to kill them. she killed her parents out of hopelessness. she never realized that maybe her parents were so disappointed because they had given her so much. because they had loved her all along. maybe that thought will occur to her one of these days while she is serving a life sentence.
As far as I am concerned, school prior to post-secondary is worth jack squat. The things you take away from there is nothing compare to everything else you will learn after. The problem is that most of these kinds of parents tend to look at things at a general level, the grades, rather than look deeper, because the former is easier. It is because they were raised in a different age, where the quality of result takes precedence above all.
One thing to keep in mind is that the parents are human also, they can be just as selfish as anyone else, as Karen has stated of her experience with her father. If I can address the elephant in the room here: As much as we do not want to think that, there are parents who look at their child’s achievements as trophies, and to some point, a procession.
Before anyone say it is a form of love, I like to point out that love comes in many forms, and the kind of love that is shown here is selfish love.
what a terrible post. “just be happy”. jesus christ.
I used to be a Tiger Mom. I no longer am. Because I realized that being a Tiger mom put too much stress on me and my kids that he is no longer happy at all. Now I am an Emotional Intelligence advocate. I run a facebook group called : Emotional Intelligence for Kids. Together we share our experiences raising emotionally and physically healthy children and support each other in the challenging parenting and child development world!Please spread the words to others in the world who want to contribute to this mission and invite them to our group.http://tinyurl.com/EQforKids
I have also written my experience of my transformation from a Tiger mom to an EQ advocate. http://povime.blogspot.com/. I had realized that you don’t have to ‘tiger’ your kid to let him excel. Without ‘driving’ him, he excels and flies higher!!! Because he is doing what he likes he has a choice and he is self motivated.
Together with a team of mission driven talented people, we have created http://www.povi.me. Our Family Connect app aims to be parents’ daily inspiration to stimulate thought-provoking communications with their children in the form of questions that help with Emotional intelligence development. Check out the app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.antwish.povi.familyconnect&hl=en
Not more questions like ‘how;s your test score?” replace with “did you help anyone today?” “if you could have a time machine for a day, what would you do with it?”
And yet she wanted her parents money.
What do you mean by “a loving fashion”? I would argue that, while there might be those who truly only want their children to succeed so that they can boast about it, there are also many who push their children because they really do want the best for them. Whether or not this is actually effective in the path to happiness is unrelated to their intentions or their love. For my own parents, I know they want me to succeed because they don’t want me to not be able to support myself in the future. They want me to be able to live comfortably, so they push me to go for high-paying jobs. I’m lucky, perhaps, that I actually do enjoy math and engineering, so there hasn’t been a conflict there. But I’m sure that, had I wanted to pursue music, for example, I would have had to do a ton of persuasion; yet that doesn’t mean my parents don’t love me. This kind of behavior is also only “culturally imperative” insofar that my parents believe being upper-middle class leads to greater happiness than being poorer (even this is fairly universal). Granted, my parents are on the milder end of the “tiger parenting” spectrum, and I’m no expert, but I think there is a distinction between poor parenting with good intentions and poor parenting with bad intentions. Lumping them together both isn’t fair to those who do care about their children and won’t help those parents realize that their methods are actually detrimental.
… and some of them do, BECAUSE of how they were parented. Is that really so hard to accept or understand? Children develop empathy and other prosocial inclinations at home, in the context of parent-child relationships. If Jennifer’s parents *never* viewed her as valuable or enjoyable, but only saw her as a vehicle for indulging their narcissistic tendencies, she would find it hard to properly value others.
No, it’s not unfair. We know a lot about child development and optimal parenting…. This ain’t it. Children need to feel loved and enjoyed by their parents for their mere existence in order to grow up healthy and whole. Parents who clearly give the message that the child needs to perform in a specified way in order to meet the parents’ emotional needs are abusive. It may not be intentional, but it is abuse.
Please don’t breed.
It’s wonderful that you were able to reflect and change your parenting practices, and are reaching out to help other parents in your community. I hope you and your son have a long, loving, happy relationship.
I am so sorry for what you went through and how your life is going now. Please know that the abuse you suffered can be overcome. The brain is endlessly plastic, and it is possible to rewrite those early experiences. I’m sorry therapy wasn’t more effective for you. Please don’t give up hope. It’s true that “it’s not about you,” it’s about choices your mother made. But we are imprinted in infancy with the framework of relationships; if your earliest framework was being beaten for having needs or not being perfect, you expect to be rejected and hurt. It’s natural to feel that way — suspicious and untrusting of others, along with self-loathing. I don’t know if this would help but there is a book called “Parenting From the Inside Out” that can help a bit with reprogramming those early, damaging messages. Good luck to you.
If you listen to your children and reason with them and value their opinions, you are not a scary “Tiger” dad. Good for you :-) I hope you will be able to respect their school and career choices, and not get overly hung up on their “success” in material terms.
Accessory to murder.
Im not going to sit here and tell you how equally hard growing up in my household was for me because of my immigrant parents. Trust me, I had the stress, had depression, made bad decisions. BUT I CANNOT SYMPATHIZE WITH PAN. Her actions are NOT justified by any means. The only thing I dont understand in all of this is, why was she still being dependent and living with her parents after turning legal? It seemed like she had her life put together without her parents, so why not just let them go and live on her own? Taking the time, money, and risk to murder her parents, when all she had to do was pack up her belongings and move in with her boyfriend? She really could have been more smart about this. She could have been more HUMAN about this. All I can say is… she would have had a better chance being tried mentally unstable, because that is clearly the case. since she could not make the right decision despite the obvious options and answers sprawled out before her. Although, now society benefits from having one less volatile individual out in the public. Seriously, what was her excuse? I’m rather curious.
I agree with you completely.
I do want to add that she probably didn’t move away because she never learned that that’s a possibility. She never learned to help herself, or that she even CAN help herself. It’s probably really hard for most people to understand — we all eventually grow up and mature — but she lived at home every single day for her whole entire life, under her very restricting parents. I think she never learned that she had the power to change her own life.
Yes, she definitely is at fault and totally deserves to be in jail, but I can sympathize.
I’m really trying. She needs to stand up for herself but she just wants approval, for her mom to be proud, but her mom never is. Always comparing her to other people. How they do it better.
The sad thing is that my friend will probably be like that to her own children. I hope I can at least stop that from happening.
As someone who has also struggled with feelings of having disappointed my high pressure parents, I’m not sure whether anyone has mentioned the possible role of shame in this story.
For someone like Jennifer, after her lies were exposed, the pain of parental shame might have been almost physical, as well as unrelenting. Eliminate the parents, eliminate the shame, and the pain.
That in no way excuses her crime.
Right. People who don’t think like you are delusional.
And who says he was treated the same? A lot of her story resonates with me. I by no means condone it, but I can empathize. While my brother has surely undergone his own challenges with my parents, they were certainly different than mine. Not only was I the oldest, but also clearly not the favourite as I was not a boy. We were treated and disciplined very differently. Somehow he is able to stay living at home with them still (albeit he never talks to them – my parents tell me to nag him about things because they don’t know how to talk to him). Meanwhile for me, being in their presence or speaking with them in the phone makes me feel negative, down to a physical level – fists and jaws clenched, ready for fight or flight. If I even just talk about my parents, I usually end up in tears. Although I now understand that their intentions are good, I am still working on getting past the anger. I’ve tried talking to them about it but the behaviour has not changed and so I must keep trying to just ignore their “parenting”. I balled so hard while reading this, and can’t help but wonder what I might have become if I didn’t get into uni which allowed me to escape, at least physically, from that toxic environment or if I had fallen in with the wrong crowd. So how could Felix possibly have turned out fine while his sister didn’t? Because they are two different people with two different psychologies and perhaps different experiences through the same parents. I am not saying “it is all the parents’ fault”, but I can totally see how their children could end up so different.
I have no doubt that Jennifer’s parents loved her very much and have always wanted what was best for her, but that kind of love blindly neglected what SHE wanted in life and eventually became a poison that ruined this family.
As harsh as this sounds, I do sympathize with the actions she took, but obviously that doesn’t make them right. No matter how you look at it, this is a tragic story for all parties involved, and unfortunately, is a cultural issue that many beleaguered children of immigrant parents face to varying degrees.
The lessons here are twofold: sacrificing your own happiness to appease others is not a viable option long term and you shouldn’t presume to know what’s best to achieve happiness for others, no matter how much you care for them.
Many children of asian immigrants feel similar pressures, but don’t concoct years of elaborate lies and then kill their parents. The reported pattern of long-standing deception, inappropriate affect/emotions, and tragic final act of killing her parents all point to her being a likely psychopath. This is not normal stress reaction to tiger-parenting….Such a tragedy
Completely agree. Everyone else is jumping to blame the parents, but they are the tragic victims here – Pan exibited all the behaviors of a psychopath
I forged my dad’s signature when I got an unacceptably poor grade on a test in Chinese school: 80%. I was 9. I got caught and it wasn’t pretty.
Also, I seriously considered some pretty morbid stuff because I was put on academic probation at UofT. I ended up dropping out in shame.
I had a ex gf who said the same stuff as you. Patriarchal parents, unfairness against you because you are a girl, relatives calling you fat or ugly. Lemme take a “wild guess”, do you have now have a white boyfriend?
I read the article and all the preceding comments. Your comment/story in particular hit home for me as I can imagine what you are explaining in my own life. Similar to most people here, I grew up in a high pressure environment with parents who wanted the best for me. From music classes to sports to academics and extra curricular activities, it was a priority before hanging out with friends. Despite the pressure, I got accustom to only completing the minimum to please my parents. This developed a mentality of finding shortcuts or manipulating people to help get what you want. Growing up I always enjoyed my friends over hard work. Luckily I surrounded myself and attracted strong willed/good people as friends throughout high school and college, but this also led me to rely on other people to achieve certain things. At the same time I didn’t get into the schools my parents wanted for me, but I held my own and it was almost a blessing in disguise to go to college in a less competitive environment. I started doing the things you talked about, befriending whoever was necessary, taking shortcuts, brown nosing professors and TA’s, and it all worked. I looked great on paper, I became great at networking, and was able to win awards and get respectable job offers. Now I am in my mid twenties, have gone through multiple job changes, constantly resetting my career to the point that I feel like a college kid again in terms of income and direction. I have moved from Coast to Coast trying to find a fit for me, I pull random all nighters, I nap at odd times, and I also form superficial relationships and constantly question my existing relationships. I have built a reputation of being cool and fun because of my ability to make people feel welcome, but at the end of the day I feel like all my academic talent and achievements mean nothing and I am still trying to figure out what’s next. I don’t know if this a gift or not, I am constantly anxious about how I am going to make it in life, but I think we are just going through a rut and are still learning more about ourselves. I think you should take the time to travel, even if it’s just a two week vacation. If it’s what your heart is feeling then do it! Maybe find a friend to go with you. Just keep learning, being productive, travel, do things you enjoy, talk to your family, and keep being the social butterfly that you are!
approval, acceptance, acknowledgement, affection, was part of her need/drug from her parents growing up. when she couldn’t live up to her parents expectations she couldn’t accept the reality. to save her “sense of self” over the years she slowly started to develop being – deceptive, fraudulent ,exploitative , Secretive to protect her false image.
she covered up lies after lies until the lies exposed themselves. she couldn’t handle not having a perfect image so she blamed her parents and set them up to be killed because she had to be perfect.
this is a story is about a codependent kid who later on became to be a pshychopath.
ever heard of the movie “gone girl”
one of the many ways a innocent child can slowly develop the traits of a phycopath until it actually becomes one :(
wisdom!
i’m a first generation kid from japan and i went through the same high expectation. I lost a sense of myself after i couldn’t keep up with my parents expectations and became a empty shell. I think all of us here had some kind of pressure from our parents. Specially the Asian parents. I think we all have empathy for her and to a certain point sympathy as well.
finally someone brought up the facts!
you are a good dad
i wish i had a dad like that
I’ve seen this before among the kids of overachieving parents – a great many of them don’t have what I would consider basic life skills. They’re oversized 10 year olds that spend all day studying or practising.
Lots of people have strict parents. Most of them don’t resort to hiring a hitman to kill them. I can’t believe I am reading so many sympathetic comments about this girl. What about making up being gang-raped to keep her boyfriend? Is that her parents’ fault too? She’s a sociopath.
Ah yes, I remembered getting 80% on a dictation test when I was 8 and got shouted at for it. For those of you who don’t know, you get -5 for every (written) wrong character for Chinese, or every wrong word in English, in a 40 (average) word dictation test. Good times indeed.
It is not sympathy.
It is simply about understanding the issue.
If you really like to get into it, whose fault is it that she turned into a sociopath in the place? What it boils down to is: Is it fair to say everything is her fault?
It is part of a parent’s personal responsibility to raise a child, from where I am standing, it appears that she never learned that. I think I know where she is suppose to learn it from, do you?
I am a British Born Chinese, I had the same pressures growing up and i didn’t like it. I disliked school when i was young because i couldn’t understand the point. My parents especially my dad pushed me a lot, i couldn’t understand why but the fact that if i continue, it will make it will make sense in terms of a better life and more money.
So at the age of 4 i woke up at 5 am in the morning one day and wanted to go to work with my dad, because i couldn’t understand school and gold stars. My dad pleaded with me to stay home, i told him that if i went to work with him, we will earn double the salary. My dad laughed and he said you wouldn’t want to work in the places i worked and i don’t want you to. My dad worked as a chef long hours from 8am to after 12pm, lots of abuse, low pay and one day off work for the rest of his life until retirement. My dad explained that he once had a chance of education in china, he came from a poor family but his parents managed to pay for school fees but he just pretended to go to school everyday. so thats why he was so hard on me.
I remember my dad would put on a nice suit every week he had a day off and my mum would say whats the point you are not going anywhere. But i think if anyone where to offer my dad an office job he would take it.
I didn’t have much freedom until i moved away for university, but that was my fault because i wanted to please my parents, i never had good grades and managed to make a few bad decisions while at university.
I understood my parents actions, but still rebelled because i didn’t know until i started to work for a short while in chinese take away and i finally realised why my dad was so strict and why he was so deeply sad, everytime i didn’t want to go to school.
My advice is talk to your parents, it won’t be easy, you have to understand things from their point as well, let them know that you love them.
Move away to study at university, they will let you even when they are not so keen on the idea at first.
Make good choices in life that will benfit you in the future, that you would not look back on with guilt or shame.
At the end of the day your parents love you, even if they go on a bit.
When a child turned out “bad”, the parents should shoulder the blame, and rightly so. However, in this particular case, I don’t see any difference in the way Jennifer’s parents raising her and her brothers compare to other responsible and caring Asian parents. They worked hard and took good care of the kids. They put a lot of pressure on the daughter to succeed yes, but she had many choices either comply, disobey and rebel, just like many other Asian youths would have done to their “oppressive” parents. I believe, Jennifer’s personality is the issue here. She could have told them all about the lies, the frustration, and leave the house if her parents fail to compromise and help work out with all of her lying problems and academic failures at early age. But she chose to lie and stay because of her parents’ money. She knew about the paid off house, the life insurance, and the $200,000 in savings, she simply could not walk away from the inheritance that her mother had promised her. That’s the most serious mistake that her parents made, I believe. Her father was strict but about the same as most Asian immigrant father but the mother was on the softer side and she thought that by promising the inheritance to Jennifer, they prove their love for her and also provide incentives to keep her staying at home and studying hard. That’s the main reason they got killed. That’s the reason Jennifer did not want to talk about it, cannot open up and never will to anyone. Too much shame to deal with herself.
I’ve also often wondered if a certain quotient of the Asian-Canadian kids more or less forced into ‘Chinese schools’ here in Canada every Saturday during their pre-post-secondary educations aren’t at seriously resentful of the fact on some level. Sure, they may be virtually guaranteed most of the spots in most of the classes at the universities of their (or their parents’) choice, and land top careers after school because of the hardcore achievement mentality, but no one can tell me that many don’t resent the fact that they never got to enjoy a truly “Canadian” childhood like many of their non-Asian peers (i.e. two-day weekends, dating, parties, etc.), you know, the ones their parents told them would never amount to anything or, ahem, be happy in life without full-on material success. And yet, the cycle seemingly repeats when these kids have kids, presumably because their parents are now grandparents wielding no less influence, otherwise how to explain the explosion of ‘Chinese schools’ across the GTA? Mind you, those are probably a whole TL story unto themselves. :)
Sometimes I wonder if the parents aren’t quietly happy to have them turn out that way. It carries the added advantage of keeping them close to their own culture when it comes time for marriage, something else that Asian and other immigrant parents (some cultures are even worse) often have too much say in because that’s how it was ‘set up’ for them.
Yup, the focus should be on them, and how they contributed—directly and indirectly—to making her the monster she is. It’s perfectly acceptable to have deep, deep sympathy for everything they went through, and their shattered lives, but you can bet even money that not a day goes by that Hann doesn’t re-play his entire raising of his daughter in a bubble and realize just how culpable he was in pushing her to the brink, even if it appears that all the other Asian parents he knew didn’t SEEM to have the same problem. Did he deserve what he got? Absolutely, irrefutably NOT, but Jennifer is where she belongs now, and we should hope that this TL article, and the (for once!) intelligent, thought-provoking social and real media discussion it has engendered will filter through to immigrant parents in short order, and maybe even stand as a warning to newly-arrived parents and potential parents. Canada is NOT China. It’s NOT Hong Kong. It’s NOT India or Eastern Europe or The Middle East or anywhere else. Forcing your kids to be nothing more than achievement machines and trophies will NOT necessarily lead to happier, healthier kids, only kids who spend their lives living lies because they fear your disappointment, afraid to tell you how emotionally screwed-up they are.
Well, no, not every single day: “Monday through Wednesday, she stayed with Daniel and his family at their home in Ajax, a large house on a quiet, tree-lined street.”
Except, “She picked up a few day shifts as a server at East Side Mario’s in Markham, taught piano lessons and later tended bar at a Boston Pizza where Daniel worked as a kitchen manager. ” She did have the skills to make a life for herself.
Having to live a controled life for so long and be prohibited from SO many things, as several have mentioned, is mental abuse. And just because people have it worse does NOT mean you aren’t allowed to complain or should just sit there and do nothing about what you are complaining about.
Do NOT degrade mental abuse. Things drive people to do things and what she did was NOT acceptable, however what her parents did wasn’t the best either. To not be able to go out to dances, or a club, and so many things even though are already are an adult? That’s not normal. And having been drawn back from experiences that help you grow up will make you not see things most people would, like you wouldn’t be able to figure out how to go about issue A or issue B because you’ve only learned how to study or so and so.
You’ve bought into several of the MYTHS your parents evidently learned about this country before they got here. Being upper middle class is NOT automatically a guarantee of being happier. Lower- to middle-class people CAN be and often ARE just as happy with their lot in life. You’ve been bred to believe the old lie that more money=more happiness. It’s just not true. Granted, NO money is not a happy situation to be in, but your parents’ fear that you won’t “be able to support myself in the future” is irrational, and whether they choose to admit it or not, it’s nothing more than a tactic they’ve used to “direct” you where they want you to go: higher education, high paying jobs, as if that’s the be all and end all. You’re still a trophy to some degree in this scenario. Just a more willing one.
Had you wanted to pursue a career in, say, music, it should NOT have required a ton of persuasion (which, if your parents are Asian, likely would’ve failed anyway). Sure, maybe more persuasion than engineering, but how many Asian kids have foregone potentially livable careers in music because mom and dad said no? Millions, probably, because to mom and dad, “music” only means being a singer or (seemingly in the case of most Asians) a piano prodigy and therefore having a one-in-a-billion chance of a career or ending up on the street like a hobo! But the music industry is so much more than that, and probably quite satisfying for those that make a perfectly decent living within it. This old chestnut about “not being able to support yourself” is little more than a scare tactic that ill-informed immigrant parents use to scare their kids away from the arts and trades (where they assume everyone starves LOL) and into medicine, law or engineering, and pretty much nothing else! O.O
Sure, arts industries may not pay as much as being a doctor, lawyer or engineer, but with the same amount of hard work and study, they ALWAYS pay a livable wage, offer a wider variety of opportunities and generally come packaged with FAR less stress.
I know there’s the old adage about “Money doesn’t buy happiness” only being said by people who don’t have money, and I can certainly see penniless homeless people subscribing to it, but I also FIRMLY believe that ENOUGH money CAN make you content, and MORE money doesn’t always make you happier. It just buys you MORE junk and empty social status you don’t really need.
But take a look at the makeup of University classrooms in Engineering, Medicine, Law and other Sciences these days: they’re practically ALL Asian kids, and I’d bet dollars to donuts that MOST of them drank their parents’ fear kool-aid and secretly wish they could be pursuing educations in areas that actually mean something to THEM more than their parents.
She sounds evil. Some who are abused, even beaten, just run away – age 13,14. Or leave when you’re 18. That’s not easy. You can end up very poor. But it’s the law! You can get out! Nobody can keep you after 18… to put on that show, endless years. And live at home? That’s on her, not her parents.
To understand the impact of parenting does not mean to excuse Jennifer’s behavior- it is a way to possibly understand it. You feel that she killed them simply out of greed, but how does someone get to that point? Personality disorders and dysfunctional relationships are influenced (at least) by parenting as well. By killing her parents she would be freed of them to become a separate person- something that seemed impossible while they were alive. AND it would achieve the goal of financial success for Jennifer- which they had so wanted for her! She had indeed internalized their values on some level, but she lacked her own authenticity, resourcefulness, and self- determination- a very emotionally stunted individual.
But you’re NOT allowed to arrange to have your parents killed. STOP making excuse for murder. STOP lessening her guilt. You’re what’s wrong with America: moral relativism.
probably because she didn’t know how to go about the responsibilities of an adult because all she learned was how to study and music. A lot of kids who have normal experiences growing up still don’t know how “adult life” life works. Loans, getting your own place, paying bills. She was never withOUT her parents or someone who KNEW how things worked. She was always at home or at her boyfriend’s place, where there were adults and Daniel seemed to know how things functioned in the world– to a degree, he did, anyway. So I cannot say that she really was fine without her parents.
Nontheless, her “answer” to her situation was undoubtedly wrong, however I do have sympathy for her. I had a time in my life where it was always my stepmother and I, since my father would always be working, and she treated me terribly. I was only around 11 or 12 and I already had horrible thoughts then. That’s how bad it can get for some people. Some people don’t have the threshold other people do, like you, maybe. Not everyone is as “strong” as other people. And sometimes those people can break. Which happened here. I feel terrible that her mother died. I feel terrible that the father feels alone now. I find what she did to be wrong but I also see what added up to it all, to an extent.
My father was very much like Hann, controlling, often not letting me associate with my peers, and my mother was like that, too, towards the early years of my life, controlling my every move, signing me up endlessly for extracurriculars, and monitoring them with precision, tutoring me in every subject, despite English being her weakest one. She tutored me endlessly, the sessions often ending in crying, and dreading.
I even relate to this article even more, considering my parents were both immigrants from Vietnam, my mother (Cantonese and Vietnamese like Jennifer’s parents) coming to the US through illegal ways, and by much sacrifice of her basic human dignity. Thus, she expected me to succeed to make up for her immense sacrifice.
Yet, they stopped the strictness once I got into middle school. They became lax, and understanding about everything, allowed me to attend dances and go to friends’ houses, and I even attend my first sleepover (*gasp!* Well they did pick me up early, hey it’s the thought that counts!) They stopped pressuring me, and allowed me to find my own passions, and didn’t complain when I gravitated from math to succeeding in English.
After reading this article, I asked them why they loosened the reigns so much, considering they were extremely strict beforehand. They told me they wanted to set a good foundation for me, in my early years, making sure I had study habits in place before I could continue with school, and they gave me control of my own life, and if I was not responsible with my control, they would tighten the reigns.
I would have to say, I was beyond lucky I was instilled with good habits at an early age, but I guess I would have to be more happy with the fact that my parents were understanding. They knew that immense strictness bred dishonesty, and if I wasn’t doing well I told them, they understood. They weren’t happy, but understood. I succeeded well at English and won writing contests (got money, too!) and public speaking, and they didn’t get too mad when I wasn’t doing too well in math.
I guess, either with my maturation, and their understanding, I grew up pretty healthy. My maturity allowed me to understand, their cruel ways of teaching me early in my life, was helping me. Their understanding though, is what truly helped me. I think in Jennifer’s situation, things could be a lot different, if a lot of different factors would have been implemented. A lot of things could have been different, however, like Daniel said, thinking like that could drive a person mad.
My parents were Nazis, no joke, very rigid. I learned abut different attitude to life from books, and from pretty much everyone else than they – doctor, cousins, aunt or two, teachers, cool schoolmates. BOOKS, Literature. I find this discussion very coddling of the perp, too, like user Laney. She was not locked up like in those horrible cases where men had women locked up for years, like in Austria, etc.
I guess it was easier to confront them b/c Nazi culture had officially been a “fail”, ok, I see the difference, but still.
I agree. She had many chances to rebel, exactly.
Ha. Ha.
coz:
a) Im NOT saying you’re allowed to kill your parents or have them killed. I did NOT say that it was right.
b) I’m NOT giving an excuse. I’m giving an understanding of HER situation because I’VE lived through a a shitty childhood through the hands of my step mother. and other situations.
c) I’m NOT EVEN A FUCKIN AMERICAN. so please don’t act high and mighty. and don’t assume, because, obviously, you’re the type to assume since you just did.
d) I was merely pointing out that mental abuse is a horrible thing and you were belittling it. Also that MAYBE the reasons why she didnt run away, or whatever else, is BECAUSE she didn’t know how the real world works WHICH IS, in fact, related to what you had initially mentioned/commented.
I am Indian, our culture is even more strict upon the upbringing of children (this may be difficult for some East Asians to believe). I think from the Academic standpoint, there seems to be equal amount of pressure among South Asian (Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Sri Lankans) and East Asian parents for their children to excel. This was evident to me as people from these ethnic backgrounds were predominant in my high school’s advanced program, and later on as I attended engineering in University. However, I believe South Asian parents are more repressive towards their children’s social life than most East Asians. Most Indian parents for example are just not interested in interacting with people outside of their own ethnic background. This only place more pressure on their children to be constantly judged by their own community. On top of that, most first generation Indian parents are still stuck in their ways with respect to arranged marriages (dating is not an option at all in your life). A lot of Indians will tell you that simply being seen with the opposite gender in public will have your parents or people of your community assume the worst.
Thanks for sharing your story. I recently listened to an episode of Paul Gilmartin’s podcast, “The Mental Illness Happy Hour”, episode 178 with Anna Akana.
Akana has a Japanese father and a Fillipino mother, and a lot of the things she discussed about her upbringing mirror aspects of Jennifer Pan’s story, and of your own. It ended up leading her to develop a habit of lying, but she also says it gave her a drive toward success. On the flipside, her younger sister committed suicide, which might have been related to her parents’ strictness and the implicit taboo to admit to failure or weakness of any kind.
At any rate, it’s an interesting episode, highly recommended for people who are looking to understand more about the often somewhat similar or comparable upbringings of the children of Asian immigrants: http://mentalpod.libsyn.com/episode-178-anna-akana
That was hardly living on her own. In her parents’ minds, she still “lived” at home, even though they thought she was living with a classmate or whomever. She was old enough to actually be legally living on her own, paying her own way (with whatever jobs she could get), but instead chose to keep close ties to the very environment she felt was crushing her. So no matter how you slice it, she was still tethered to home one way or another. The lies just allowed her to crash at other places for a while.
What if this was money and meanness motivated and the TIger Mom excuse is camouflage?
“He drove a Mercedes-Benz and she a Lexus ES 300, and they accumulated $200,000 in the bank.”
I’ve never expereinced TIger Momming which looks pretty good from the outside looking in. But this one and that Esme Chan look pretty aggressive. She was already over 18, she could have just vanished and continued waitressing, bar hostessing off the books and living with her boyfriend – why kill her parents?
Its a huge leap of disbelief to cross to see that she was FORCED to do this and using Tiger Mom as an excuse may be just to exploit perceived nonChinese tendency to accept stereotypes – a lot of beneficiiaries of immigration really believe that stuff but not in our family which never got into social programs or were encouraged to be professional minorities – in our experience, everyone sees through everyone.
Canadians are hard – there’s no way they can’t see through her. Agatha Christie is still a favorite author, right? That cynicism is very reassuring in a world of Weeping Angels and Jennifer Pan weeps only for herself.
no they don’t
if being pressured to succeed is a character test then Jennifer Pan FAILED – she’s a murderer who PLANNED to kill her own parents which sends not the message that she is victim but that people with good grades are not the equivalent of model citizens.
my mother totally ignored my education even though she could have helped and would just respond with OH don’t you know this as if I were a fellow HK educated Chinese – I think she was messed up by HK and not liking being a mom period and being a mom in the middle of nowhere. I had no help with Chinese school either so I took a Chinese English dictionary and just translated which resulted in a homework assignment the equivalent of Posh Nosh.
It did do a number on me in that I dreaded Chinese school and had this sense of foreboding in the hours approaching school. It probably caused a procrastination in me as well because I was fine otherwise. I also got all the rage of being disconnected, having crap in laws, a foolish husband and a handicapped little brother and that goes on to this day only abbreviated by ill health and old age.
And you don’t see me killing anyone or becoming a criminal. I have NO sympathy for the Jenifer Pans and the Esme Tengs of this world. When your mother runs into your room screaming and keeps you up the nights before PSAT and SAT, you can’t say she loves you when she sends you off to take those important exams with no sleep and a screaming rage in the car ride which was common on school mornings, when every day after school she has to give you housework because you look too happy which involves phsyical and verbal abuse all because her husband is a fool who can’t put himself or his own family first.
To all the Esmes and Jennifer Pans and all the little triad members out there like Jamie Gao who have no problem inflicting murder and bullying violence on others including that ass-hole new tenant who screamed in my face for several long minutes that I was “retarded” for questioning the cold radiator possibly having a stuck air valve, you haven’t been beaten enough as a child. Whatever you think you suffered, however much you got lit into by your own parents or random racist kids and their older brothers in your so sad immigrant life, it wasn’t enough because you never learned to behave yourself in response.
tell that to an apartment of kids whose mother denied them schooling and food because she gambled the milk powder money
that apportionment of funds and time to anything for the child is better than most people on this planet – its not an invitation to be murdered by the beneficiary later on
Just remember that they can still be successful at things YOU may worry they won’t be successful at! If, at the appropriate age, THEY set their sights on a career path, and they prove willing to work hard even if it’s not medicine, science, engineering or law, you need to encourage it, hard, and not wish they’d chosen something more lucrative that might SEEM to carry a greater sense of happiness because it pays more money (which isn’t always the case). And if they decide to change careers later in life, support that too. They’ll never be poor if you simply encourage them to succeed at what THEY know they’re good at.
Pushed her to do it is insane. Also, why both parents when the dad was the stricter of the two and the mom was softer and more on her side? I’ll tell you why, she was a selfish greedy little a-hole witch. Besides, at that age, you should be out on your own!!! Get out and shape the life you want. Don’t be a free loader……she wanted their possessions but not their rules. Ungrateful. If they let her out, there’s no justice.
“We would interact in the band room, had dozens of mutual acquaintances and were friends on Facebook.”
Impossible, at least while you were attending Mary Ward (which is how this statement is framed). Facebook was still “The Facebook” back then, and it was only available to college students at a limited number of universities; a university e-mail address was required to sign up until Facebook was completely open to the public after a few years of operation.
I think they want them exposed to Chinese people and reminded that they are Chinese in a non Chinese society. I don’t know how smart it is to expect bilingualism which is usually achieved by some forced studying at home which I have witnessed by a typical Joy Luck Club competitive mom and her similar kids.
I didn’t learn a damn thing in Chinese school but I picked up conversational Mandarin in two weeks in Beijing so I suggest that parents of all backgrounds chill out on all this childhood bilingualism and just send them to Spain or Cuba or China when they are in college for the summer so you save money on college credits and you see real progress.
The only reason I speak Chinese is because my parents did at home PLUS my mother was screaming at me and would never use words that I could understand so I had to grab the gist and then throw it back at her. I only looked at HK movies for three serials so it wasn’t TVB but like writing an essay, I learned to translate from whatever English I had and volume sometimes will contain that precise hit that you need to shorten a tirade.
The only thing that ends a physical attack is the sound of my father’s car engine in the driveway and he absolutely knew when he came home because my face was exhausted, my brother was terrified and my mother was exalted and immediately went into HK articulation overriding all potential questions with passionate complaints and condemnations so he wouldn’t rock the boat and would just scold me that I shouldn’t upset my mother. he absolutely knew and he chose to be sympathetic to gangsters who would later murder him who whined that their father beat them for joining the Ghost Shadows whilst I had three wire and plastic hangers broken on my back for a hanger that had been left on the closet floor for more than a day.
There is no excuse for losing control and engaging in physical violence. It’s not an Asian thing, It’s not a pressured Tiger Mom thing and it is definitely not a regulated tenant of record in NYC thing.
It just means someone is evil. They’ve got a mean streak and they want to get away with it, so they Tiger Mom the kid too harshly, or they kill their Tiger Mom, or they make sure the physical attacks are reserved for clothed parts of the body and the head is only for hair pulling and hard slaps not scratches or hard pinches reserved for upper arms and thighs and if you try to show your notebook size bruise to another Chinese mom who just wants her uglier daugthter to surpass you, she’ll just laugh and enjoy that your pristine mother is actually a self destructive idiot while she offers to hold your jacket that she then uses to line the public bathroom stall when she goes to the bathroom.
A lot of people are assholes and they happen to be Asian – what a surprise.
they dont want to be moms then – they just want their retirement insurance – having kids who will caregive – to be as wealthy as possible so they are more likely to enjoy cruises in their old age.
some people are like that but I noticed that the most ruthless and predatory business people and criminals are good to their own kids – so the civilians who do not engage in crimes treat their kids badly when a lot of selfish and greedy people are raising very self assured Jamie Gao types.
when you see pale kids with ghost faces either underweight or overweight – you know they dont have a happy home life but the world is nicer to the perfect looking Jamie Gaos not to the kids with parents who are rude to them (I had comic book customers like that and I couldn’t tell them that I see and I understand) – I’ve overheard abusive but perfect (selfish) moms who don’t have money taking it out on their oldest in Chinatown and in Hong Kong in frustrated narcissism.
I don’t care but nobody deserves to get raped or beaten the way Japan dished it out. They could have done it to many a Chinese bad mothers and it is still unacceptable and none of their business.
Murder is rarely okay. If gun owners have a duty to retreat, then why didnt Jennifer Pan have this same duty?
Don’t let a growing anti Chinese feeling in Canada allow her to exploit that unpopularity to get out of being judged accurately.
This seems like something my old high school should know. I grew up with one Asian parent who did push us during school but not to the extent that many of my schoolmates were pushed. Thinking back I was definitely expected to be better and I remember lying in elementary school about work I hadn’t done saying it had been lost or just straight up not doing an assignment and telling the teacher he wasn’t going to do anything about it anyway because I was smart. I lucked out that when my parents made me switch schools in elementary from French immersion to a regular school, I struggled enough in those first two years that I think it helped them mellow a bit. But the pressure I felt was still real. My whole family is full of high achievers so to me it was more than my parents and I honestly think they were pretty good about it but I grew up around enough other people under unreasonable amounts of pressure that I put some of it on myself. I still worry about disappointing them and I own my own place and am a professional in health care. I know I have nothing to be ashamed of but it seems almost ingrained now in my psyche. I also had to attend a Catholic high school that emphasised academics and saw so many classmates pushed to the brink by their parents. One girl would take the entire contents of her locker home nightly starting in grade 8 to study. Another girl ended up basically having a nervous breakdown and not graduating from university. Though many of my former classmates are successful in their own ways, many were set up to fail as the school also added pressure to go to only the top schools and study what it defined as important professions. This provided few options for those who were less academically inclined or those who may have found excellence in other fields not presented to them. For instance no word was ever mentioned about going to college or trade school. Even UVIC was considered a party school and not good enough for those who graduated from my high school. There are so many paths out there and possibilities but when one is only given a narrow view on the world it will lead to problems for a lot of people who cannot fit that mold. I am honestly surprised there were not as many suicides or drug addictions in my school because of this. There are so many pressures put on young people by so many outside sources that it makes it difficult for people to actually realize who they really are and what is important in life.
Back to the point of my reply to the above comment had to do with regrets. I also know what it’s like to have regrets because of time spent on what seems so unimportant when you look back at it. Luckily for me, while my father was an immigrant who struggled a lot when he came to Canada, he was successful by the time I was a child and could remember and he did have a lot of family values and love for us. He would take us for trips and try to make us happy and we had our mother who is probably one of the most caring people I know. I lucked out but it doesn’t mean I didn’t still feel or continue to feel the pressure to be more than I am or think I can be. It can make me difficult to work with and honestly it makes me too competitive when there is no need. It makes me constantly compare myself against all those around me and put myself down for not having achieved certain life goals. It makes it harder for me to recognise how good I have it and how thankful and happy I should be. I am not a happy person. I lie to myself and to those around me about being happy. I put on a façade most of the time when I feel I should appear happy. It’s not that I’m never happy but I am often overcome with intense feelings of inadequacy and sorrow. I hate that I’m not happy which doesn’t help the problem. I try to fill my life with things that will only superficially make me happy and think, “maybe if I just…” I’ll be happy. This ended up getting off topic but I think most of these feelings are rooted in having such an upbringing and being around so many others with a similar if not more severe childhood.
my brother’s employers would tell him that they couldnt believe how well he handled bad customers and he would laugh to me and say look at who trained me – every time the Chinese newspapers smeared my father, my mother would take it out on us and it would take her months to get over it by which time the newspapers would print another smear.
when my mother was subpoenad without being questioned, my coworker who was formerly at the DA’s office repeatedly said you are handling this surprisingly well. Oh really? Does that include the coincidence of meeting you and being offered a law school education that would bind me?
No one cares if you’ve got a good excuse to whine in you – it’s not going to save your life or get the bad guys. Jennifer Pan could have just lived a normal life with her boyfriend. It’s gotta be about money.
I had a fancy classmate who copied an O Henry short story and got an A from a difficult required writing class. I just hope he’s not a doctor or a lawyer that I ever need to help me.
It’s unfortunate that none of these people value human life enough to be able to discuss murder with such shallow Eat Pray Love self-interest.
Maybe miltiary service should be mandatory.
did she show up at the bar looking that underage?
is she disguising herself to look younger and more vulnerable to the jury cuz you need to look nonbookish to work in a bar, don’t you?
wasnt she living with her boyfriend – that sounds pretty grown up to me
bar hostessing and waittressing too
well there is just an idea that foreigners will be insulting to their daughters (not the sons) and that the foreigners will not feel like their daughter is family but disposable.
wow so those rapes in England of Sikh girls must be ruinous.
its true that Indians come off as self sufficient but they seem socially brighter (more Westernized) than East Asians in their intereactions despite any strict upbringing.
We did have an Indian girl who was really into necking with guys in Catholic School and her parents wer doctors so maybe not having anyone around to judge her set her free or all those 80s love songs overwhelmed her.
she looks like Esmie Tseng imo
Facebook was all access by 2006. Try a bit harder next time. ;)
very few Holocaust survivors became criminals
abuse
poverty
wealth gap
rent regulations
are no excuse for violent behavior
There’s rarely an excuse for violent behaviour.
Lots of REASONS for it, though.
I think Tiger Mom exposure coalesced resentment in other high achievers and non achiever parents for Asians – there’s defintitely a current of no personality, perfect on paper assessment.
but it is still about HER child excelling – not circling back and taking a year off of your career to mentor less fortunately parented kids to excel academically.
i wouldnt have an opinion otherwise or judge her as being selfish but I am pointing out that people see Asian immigrantss as selfish, tactical and ungrateful.
No, it’s about HER realizing that Tiger Parenting does not work unless you really want your children to be miserable later in life when they realize all their achievements were only in the service of making their parents look good.
How can she be a golden child if she didn’t even get into Ryerson?
> looks pretty good from the outside looking in.
Then why are you even talking then?
Look, it could be about money like you say. I just like to think there needs to be more than just a monetary gain, if it makes someone go as far as to clip their own parents.
mm hmm but the goal is still to have the child excel rather than to create a force for good and when they go to church, its not necessarily for nonself gratification either.
was she in a gang – some gangsters do have nerd looking girlfriends who end up pharmacists or some other respectable trade – its kevlar and sheeps clothing to some extent
where did her parents wealth come from
I was told when I was three that children are turned against parents by triad to use the former to extort wealth from the parents so ….
I remember one Korean girl getting smacked by her father who came home suddenly from the dry cleaning store to find her blonde boyfriend escaping out the back door. The secrecy is a profound betrayal as well as invading the family residence but the vocal high school lemming attitude is to side with the young lovers but I know a lot of kids who are white and black who wouldn’t disrespect themselves or their parents by being secretive like this so I think that Asians can have a very shallow grasp on what it means to be modern and forward thinking and too easily discard undigested training that actually is echoed in nonAsian households – its not that being conservative or diligent is wrong but that these kids have a disrespect for nonAsians in expecting that these traits are not also and already in the possession of well broughtup nonAsian families.
murder’s murder
her boyfriend broke up with her? why? who wouldnt want a murderer for a paramour?
Needless to say, what Jennifer did is unacceptable.
But me thinks we need to put out some sort of propaganda to inform these children living under highly authoritarian parents that they have other options in life. Maybe take a page out of the White Rose’s playbook (the White Rose, aka die Weiße Rose was an Anti-Nazi movement in Germany during Hitler’s regime where they dropped anonymous and serendipitous leaflets explaining the terror and brainwashing the reader is presumably being subjected to, hopefully to inform them of the bubble they’re living in.)
I watched a documentary on child acrobats and the shanghainese den mother was quite mean. They could have been quite out of line in how they dealt with her in which case they don’t deserve kindness and outside help BUT she should have just stayed away from them.
it’s called murder
Jennifer was born in 1986, which would mean she was a senior at Mary Ward from 2003-2004. Unlike Jennifer, math is one of my strong points, so I didn’t need to try hard.
When i read this yesterday, I was so startled by this and it was in my mind the entire night. I felt like I was in very similar shoes to Jennifer’s and it was terrifying to read. Here is my story:
I am a first generation American, born and raised in California. My parents moved to America when they were in their 20’s, my dad working in a restaurant and my mother a stay at home mom but eventually running her own daycare.
When I was in HS, my parents were not “tiger” parents but my dad definitely bullied me and made me feel inadequate if I earned B grades. He would not compare me to any of our other relatives (we didnt have any in America at the time), but he would say hurtful things like how I’ll never get into college or I’ll never find a good job. I also talked back, which my dad did not like and he started making up things like how he has friends at my school reporting back to him. He said his “friend” saw me hugging a boy. I realized my dad would go to extremes, even making up lies to see if I would flinch and “admit” to something that never actually happened. I didn’t have a boyfriend. He didn’t have people watching me at school, but he wanted me to think that. It was a mind game.
I was forbidden to go to school dances, school events, football games… etc. I was in band, and some events were mandatory so I did have to go. Dances were optional but I wanted to fit in with my friends and be normal so I said those were mandatory as well. My dad once got off of work early and rummaged through the gym at my school to look for me. My friends told me they saw him, and I immediately called him from my cell and said I was ready for him to pick me up. I was so scared. I didn’t know what to do. He was furious when he saw me even though he knew I was going to be at the event. He said a whole bunch of nonsense in the car on the drive home – things like I was a failure, the stupidest daughter he had ever seen, an embarrassment. I was upset and I knew at the time that I had to GET OUT the minute I finished high school. I was only in my Sophomore year at the time, and had 2 more years to go. In junior year, i went to prom and the moment I got home, my dad came and slapped me on my face. I cried and shouted like WTF is wrong with you in my broken Cantonese. My mother, who said nothing, just watched as my dad attacked me. I ran to my room, locked it and sobbed for what seemed like an eternity. I thought about suicide but I couldn’t do it. I knew there were much bigger things out there for me and what I could become if I just stuck through it.
I doctored some of my report cards in high school. I changed my address to a friend’s address who had the same name as my dad’s, so that the report cards would be mailed there first. I never got caught for the report cards but I knew my dad suspected something. I never wanted him to think I was too good so I made myself seem above average but he still picked fights with me and criticized me for being in band and not focusing 100% on schoolwork. My defense was that you needed a lot of extra cirricular activities to have a better advantage for Universities. He was OK, but still felt the need to voice his disapproval because it was costly (i fundraised my entire HS career), time consuming, and talentless.
My mother was always nice to me, in fact, she listened and responded to me in a somewhat positive way. My father wasn’t a drinker but he worked at a restaurant as a cook and there is a big hierarchical ladder in the biz and it is stressful. Cooks look down to servers, bosses look down to all employees. Negative atmosphere. After HS ended, I went to a University that was about 30 mins north of my parents’ house and i dormed my first year. My dad was still very overbearing, and wanted me to come home every single weekend, starting Friday nights and leaving Sunday night. At the time I met someone who I began dating and eventually living with. My dad thought she was a friend, a roommate, but it was romantic. During my 2nd year at the University, I received a D grade in one of my classes and made a horrible decision with my significant other at the time to change all the grades for the class. I eventually got caught, and the police rummaged through my parents’ house to take away all the computers and laptops. My dad was furious, and I made up crazy stories about how it was a misunderstanding and it had nothing to do with me but that it was my friend who used my laptop. He thought it was drugs or something worse but was relieved when I said it had NOTHING to do with drugs. My father forced me to move home, but I told him I was in college and had to finish the semester. It was such a stressful period in my life, and i was fortunate they never found out about anything. I went to court and pleaded no contest to the crime. I was given a misdemeanor and many hours of community service. I completed it all myself, without ever involving the parents. Before the court date, there was a lot of press and media writing about what had happened. I even went and purchased all the Chinese newspapers to prevent them from seeing my face in the front of the paper. I asked some of my Chinese friends nearby to buy all the Chinese papers in their city too. They never found out, and they didn’t watch TV enough. I once turned on the morning news and saw my face headlining the news on ABC 7. I was so ashamed. I eventually got kicked out of the University and the chancellor told me i could never apply to any state school with my background. I sobbed and sobbed until I couldn’t anymore. My whole identity of a person was to go to college. I worked my ass off at a local community college and gained acceptance to a respectable UC school in Northern California. I told my parents that I wanted to transfer because it was a better program. They agreed (they never knew i got kicked out). I moved up to NorCal, finished my degree in 1.5 years and worked really hard to get a job despite the misdemeanor sitting in my record.
I broke off my relationship with my girlfriend shortly after being convicted. She was not a good person in my life. She also had a lot of demons that she was fighting, and it wasn’t a healthy emotional relationship.
I never moved back home because it wasn’t something I wanted. The promise I made to myself when I was 14 was something I stuck with, whether it was fear for my father or fear of failure. So much negativity surrounded me in their home and I couldn’t see myself going back and living with them again. They still give me crap about finding someone, dating, getting married so my father could have grandchildren (they don’t know that I am in a long term relationship with another woman.. that is another story). For a long time, I blamed my mother for not standing up for me. I blamed her for all the abuse I endured with my father and how I was just a effing young girl who was trapped in the household. Her own mother couldn’t even love her enough to not be a doormat. I would watch movies that had Caucasian characters and saw their mother’s undying love for their children and fought through everything for them. Even though I knew my mother loved me deeply and cried for me when my dad hurt me emotionally, i never thought it was enough. I blamed her standing idly by, and was part of the abuse by not defending me.
Even through a decade has almost passed, i still feel insecure and sometimes inadequate when I am at home with my family. I respect both my parents for giving me the opportunity to have a life here. I know they sacrificed a lot to immigrate to the US, and faced a lot of racism and hardship for being a minority. I know this, and I respect it. But I also feel like it isn’t right to bully your children to mold them into something better. If I weren’t as strong as I was then (and it was a very thin line I was holding onto) I probably would not have ended up where I am today. I wouldn’t have been so self aware and self sufficient. I think many 1st gen. Asian American children face this harsh reality and it’s unfair and unjust. Parents should be accountable for their behavior because it is a form of child abuse. I know Jennifer’s father mentally and emotionally abused her. Now, I don’t think she should have hired anyone to murder them, but the blame isn’t 100% on her. It was the by-product of a child raised in an abusive home, anchored to the ground with negativity and was forced to lie, forced to be better than she was, but with no positive support around her or in her life.
Every time i get a phone call from my father, my heart drops a little because for a split second I still feel like the fearful little girl I once was. Like i was hiding something. From all the years of abuse, it does take a toll mentally and there are side effects. I am in a constant state of worry, in and out of depression, too self-aware that I cannot form adequate friendships, feeling like I have to hide.
I don’t expect all strict Asian parents to all understand or change… but there should be more awareness out there and resources for them. I know many of them are too busy working and providing for their families but it needs to be out there. I wish there were something I could do to get involved somehow to change this.
I consider myself a success story despite my struggles within the last decade.
I am now in my late 20’s and living in the Bay Area. I have a respectable career as an accountant in a high tech company, turning my life around completely. It has been over 8 years since the incident, and i feel like it was a lifetime ago. Like I am not even that person anymore. I have a great relationship with my parents and often fly back to visit them. I think they did see that I made my life into something better and respect me for it. I never took a single cent from them while I was at University in NorCal. I had many part time jobs to pay off living expenses and I paid off my 10K loan i took out from school the first 1.5 years upon graduating, in full.
I think it is possible for anyone to redeem themselves, even Jennifer Pan. It will take a lifetime of emotional turmoil and surrounding herself with the right people but i believe she can do it. It’s a unforgivable crime to hurt your parents and she is now paying the price for her life. I only hope that she finds peace in solidarity and that this sort of prison confinement can open her eyes.
I heard this from a traumatized Vietnamese law student with a gambling problem. He was so screwed up but consoled himself that he didn’t blame his parents (moral high ground) and they thought they were doing their best so he was both his own flying monkey and ostrich.
a lot of nasty chinese people are nice to their own family and horrible to other people but you cant say that all immigrants are saintly parents – they may want that jump out of their pit and class for themselves by proxy. their sons may not be doctors or their daughters rich pharmacists back in the old country.
I’m not disputing that… clearly it’s murder
Having grown up in a high pressure family as well, I can relate to these stories, but I wonder if this trap is self-inflicted? For about the first 20 years of my life, I hated my parents as well, but having left the abusively high standard house, off on my own in college, I finally had a chance to eat at a restaurant, watch a movie, or go to a party. I didn’t do a lot of any of those things, as it made me uncomfortable, but it was nice to have the freedom to do so. In your case, it sounds like you are on your own in college, law school, and now working, so you too have the freedom to do anything. This feeling of being trapped all stem from yourself, as your parents are not inhibiting you in any way, merely your expectations on yourself. I think, at a certain point in my mid twenties, I realized that I had the best of both worlds – the discipline instilled in my childhood to endure, work hard, and have high standards for myself – while also having the freedom to choose to indulge in “normal” activities as I wished. Those that had “normal” upbringings can barely survive on their normal-wage jobs, while those of us who suffered before now command far more income than we know what to do with. This is truly a better position to be in – sure, you may not had ski trips as a child, but now you can go skiing, or go to France, or buy that big house, eat that fancy dinner, and do all the things you missed out on. With law, you were delayed by 4 years of law school, but now you should be on the verge of this “flip” from destitute suffering student to the top 2% income earner that can now enjoy all the privileges society can offer. They say the nerd inherits the world, and for the overachieving immigrants that out score the regular nerds in every way, this is even more so. Unlike many normal Americans whose life peaked at the high school prom, and only went downhill from there, we are destined to peak far later in life, and ultimately, this is a good thing. While being a massive manipulator is not a good thing, and certainly does not make you a good person, I have seen many people with those skills go very far in company politics. Had this girl in the story toned down her lying, learned when not to cross the line, she has a lot of the skills to make a mid level executive – meticulous planning, adapting to situations quickly on the spot, disciplined approach, keeping up multiple faces/fronts depending on audience. It’s easy to see her as a bad person, but I can see easily how she could have normalized in her mid twenties, as we all do, and taken her skills to fabricate report cards/scholarships, disciplined research faking notes in the library, and put those skills to use in a real job.
I’m currently experiencing something similar to this, so I hope I can give some insight.
My parents are pretty controlling. No going out at night, random denials of normal things such as hanging out with friends, etc. They are a huge presence in what I can and can’t do.
But obviously there are limits on what they can do. I find other ways to contact friends, or I talk with them on facebook. It’s possible to do this just because they’re not as adjusted to technology. I haven’t sneaked out before, just because they live too far away.
They also have absolutely no idea what goes on at school. This isn’t from any lack of constant nagging about grades, but they could not even tell you what all my classes were. It’s just constant nagging, horribly hurtful nagging, to the point where it’s the first thing that comes up with any interaction with them.
They are just horribly ignorant about what actually goes on, and when they do find out something, they go ahead and try to impose their values on whatever I’ve done. My parents, and I assume her’s as well, are much more akin to giants who come around constantly, wrecking everything that you’ve tried to build, not 1984 style thoughtcrime police.
That was sort of disjointed so I apologize, but I hope I shed some light on the situation
Honestly, I will try to understand and respect their school/career choice.
But, I will also try to reason and persuade them to see why their choice may not be the best choice. In anyway, I will not force them to do anything just to please me.
I didn’t read your post carefully enough, but I really do not recommend a career path switch in your 30’s. Having spent 8 years of your life getting that law degree, you are on the cusp of tasting the fruits of that labor. Everyone struggles with their first associate job, given how demanding it is, but it will only get better and more rewarding. Also, you seem to have decided to try to “fit in” with others by pretending you have done certain things, or know certain common cultural things, creating this “fake” and “real” you that is difficult to separate. This is a really bad idea, and is indeed part of why the girl in the story self-destructed. Why lie about yourself? I used to pretend with my first girl friend that I was interested in music, and knew songs and stuff when I just didn’t care. I tried memorizing and studying popular songs, somehow 19th century history is easier to memorize than song names for me. I finally confessed I basically didn’t know any songs of the 80’s, 90’s, 00’s, or actually any songs what-so-ever. You know what? She laughed and said she already guessed and she didn’t care, and she doesn’t think song knowledge makes a person smart or anything. This, from a girl who loves songs, seems to know every single one of them after a hearing a few seconds. After that, I was open about how little I’ve done/or know about normal things, and found that most normal people are happy to explain, or talk about other things. Actually, mostly people just find it a bit amusing and even cute, and an “interesting” thing. So why lie? Lying about having “cool” experiences, having done things other people have done, is just trying to be “cool” or “fit in” is just flawed behaviors learned from high school. Real life isn’t high school anymore, and people are not going to exclude you just because you don’t have a stupid college drinking story to share.
I only wish more first gen parents were like you. You sound fantastic, and I sincerely hope you continue to do what you do because it sounds like it is going fantastically.
I don’t see how the colour of whomever I may be dating has any bearing on the fact that my parents specifically told me the reason I was not allowed to do X or Y is because I’m a girl. And yes I was called fat or ugly by my mom a lot. But no, that doesn’t mean I automatically assume that all minorities are sexist or insulting, so I’m a little offended by your “wild guess”
The thing with allowing individual families to come to the revelations is that some will always fall through the cracks. My family certainly never will change. I still try, although I know it’s pointless already.
Yes, you’re correct.
I know that their choice of career may not be what I hope they are. I will try to reason and persuade them. But in the end, I will let them decide on their own. And if they fail, I will not be telling them “I told you so…”
For me, in either case (they follow my advice and fail OR they follow their own desire and fail), the result is the same–they fail and need help.
Oddly enough, I feel that justice was properly served on all sides, and everyone steadfastly demanded everything they got, and it was predictable from the beginning. Someone, at some point, should have realized that this whole situation is messed up and done something about it. No one did. They all simply marched forward into oblivion. Pretty poetic. Everyone locked in their own egos driving forward to their own destruction.
I agree – I think most Indians, first generation or later, have always known that success is more than academics – it also comes from getting to “know” the right people, having social skills, impressing others etc. East Asians first generation parents, mine included, are limited in their outlook, focusing entirely on testable skills, ie pure academic knowledge. This is probably due to China, Korea, and Japan all using a college entrance exam as the sole determining factor for college admittance, without any weight for anything else. Therefore, in those 3 places, the common perception is that an “ideal” son/daughter is one who can score so high on the college entrance exam to go to a top school, which requires the kid to study 24/7. They bring the same thought process to the US, sprinkling in club activities to match the US admittance system, without realizing 24/7 studying/clubs activities prevents their kids from learning normal social behaviors.
this is not a members only discussion for tiger cubs
this is excusing murder because of suffering on behalf of the perpetrators – you don’t see Holocaust survivors turning into Nazis themselves but the perpetrators cite poverty and bad childhoods as excuses.
too bad for the victims and too late for the perps who insisted on making their pain someone else’s
Your parents are very wise.
I imagine the usual way for first generation Asians – 2 medium wage professional jobs, and a savings rate of 40-50% by heavy discounting and living within their means.
Vietnam is not known for transplant wealth, if that is what you mean. Transplant wealth (a lot of Hong Kong, Taiwan, and now Mainland China) tend not to be tiger moms, since they usually have spoiled children due to their excessive wealth.
This is a really touching and intense narrative. I absolutely agree that Asians are not the only culture that experiences this kind of parenting in a systematic manner. I could only speak to my own experience, and I didn’t want to overreach into a culture that wasn’t my own, so thanks for sharing this perspective as well.
I can really understand what you mean about the “superficial” relationships too, trying to integrate into a world you had no exposure to while growing up, all at the same time balancing career ambitions and coursework and crazy hours. It does get very surreal if you keep going down that path, life gets kind of surreal. I think it’s only natural for kids who’ve had a lot of world exposure growing up to look at you and think, ‘of course she’s a party girl, she looks so healthy and happy,’ without realizing that people who have had very restrictive upbringings are more complex than that on the inside. I hope that since then you’ve been able to find people you can really get close to, who you can share these experiences with, because there are so many of us out there who would definitely understand your feelings and your life experience.
It’s not right to blame our parents for trying their best for us, but it’s also hard for us not to carry scars, to suffer from pressure, depression, psychological and physical exhaustion. A kind of burning out. I think that if law is not right for you, 30 is absolutely not too late to change it. It isn’t until I graduated college that I realize how many different kinds of career options there are, how different the roads are people chose, and we don’t all have to be in the lawyer-doctor track to make our careers a success. Good luck to you, girl.
Vietnamese boat people hid gold everywhere on their persons according to Vietnamese firsthand accounts.
no I mean the Indians have bigger more public personalities not more calculating.
This is a very good point.
I think tiger parenting is a high risk, high reward style of parenting. In 99% of cases, the child will be emotionally scarred, hate their life and their parents in their teens. In their 20’s they adjust to having freedom, and adjust to normal “culture”, and in their 30’s become well off and successful and look back and appreciate, or at least understand, why their parents did what they did. They may even end up doing a slightly milder version of tiger parenting themselves.
Given the large sample size of model immigrants, a few suicides and this one single case of murder is actually very small. I’d say with a hands off approach, you have a higher chance for drug abuse and then overdose in the mid 20’s, 30’s, except they are so common they don’t make the news.
It’s weird that I’m sort of defending tiger parenting as I hated it, but everyone I know who cried, had emotional breakdowns, and were basically trainwrecks in high school are now super financially stable in their 20’s buying homes and stocks, 10-20 years ahead of their peers. It’s hard to hate what works, you know?
I hid some things in high school, to a lesser degree. Also got put on academic probation at UofT, and in fact failed out and was suspended for a year, leaving in shame…but after a year-and-a-half, I went back. Why?
My parents, seeing the full extent of my collapse (it was a very morbid time for me as well), accepted what had happened. They helped me back on my feet and supported me. Eventually I got a job. Things slowly got better. Then I realized that my parents weren’t actually pressuring me very hard to go back to university. The reality of their suddenly diminished expectations for me, the idea that I may have permanently sunk in their estimation, put the Fear of God in me more than any amount of bullying or belittlement ever could. I went on to finish my undergrad and even went on to get a professional degree.
Regarding Ms. Pan’s feelings for her parents, Ms. Ho asks “how do you believe a liar?” But I wouldn’t call Pan a “pathological” liar: her motivations for lying seem pretty clear. If she didn’t love her parents she would never have arranged to have them killed. She instead would’ve left the house when her father told her to get out, gotten away from them and out from under their thumb.
I’m actually not hugely sympathetic towards the father, who I think bears a non-trivial degree of responsibility for the ruin that his life has become (the death of the mother, who was more of a voice of reason, was senseless and tragic). But while Mr. Hann’s insane expectations and horrible parenting may have started his daughter down her dark track, at the end of the day it was her own lack of character and willpower that kept her from jumping clear of it before it was too late. Having overbearing parents doesn’t even get you half of the way to murder.
P.S: Am a white guy, if such context if required.
This might sound easy to say since I’m just another reader of a story, but Jennifer has no one to blame but herself in this instance.
Asian parents have high expectations of their children – it’s a popular stereotype that holds some truth, but this characteristic is not necessarily limited to race alone. Many of these strict parents overcame severe hardship and as in Jennifer’s parents’ case, they were refugees. They struggle and work excruciatingly hard toward the goal that their children wouldn’t have to go through the same.
Where did Jennifer learn deceit? I don’t believe it was from her parents or her upbringing. It’s usually outside forces that shape and influence someone like her to have the willingness and conviction to carry out murder on her own parents. No matter the way in which she was raised, no matter how cruel they were in her eyes, the lack of freedom, the absence of encouragement, or their ‘management style’, it was the sacrifices in their lives that gave her any opportunity to live a life that was far better than what they had at Jennifer’s age. She got close with the wrong circles, was probably envious at how much freedom her friends and classmates had, and compiled a kind of certainty of her own life that couldn’t be blamed on anyone except her parents.
There are many stories of immigrants with satisfying tales of success, in their own lives and through their children. It doesn’t matter how terrible her life was under her parents’ roof, Jennifer cannot be forgiven for what she’s done, but should continue to beg for forgiveness for the rest of her life. She had a choice to move out of home and make a life of her own, like her parents did, but was too weak to take that step. She enjoyed the easy life her parents afforded her, and preferred the effortless path of lying without realizing the consequences. Expecting to get their inheritance is the ultimate sign of a lazy, miserable, under achieving loser-turned-killer. Murder as a way out is the ultimate disgrace and shame and the elaborate plan she concocted shows a woman who is deeply troubled, cold blooded, and evil to the core.
This story has affected me in so many ways simply because Jennifer’s life mirrored mine in so many ways. I felt the same pressure she felt from her parents, and like her, I concocted a few lies to cover up my failures in school. There’s one thing that I learned about the “art” of lying and that is the liar is constantly making up lies to cover the lies made in the past. It is, to some degree, a full-time job, and although it’s cliche to say this, the truth always sets the liar free.
I can probably and totally understand what Jennifer felt, but I can never understand her elaborate plan to kill her parents. My parents were almost like hers – “Tiger” parents, if you will. As much as suffocating my parents’ over-protectiveness, I know and understand where my parents are coming from. “Tiger parenting” played a major role in Jennifer’s story but it is by no means an excuse to her actions. To all those who are quick to blame such type of parenting and know nothing about Asian cultures, please hold off your judgments and learn a thing or two about the Asian immigrants’ experiences here in Canada and North America. It is not a perfect way to parent a child and it has its cons as much as its pros.
As for Jennifer, the choices that she made have led her to her own ruin. However, to say that she could not have charted a different course is utterly preposterous. Her actions were nothing but cowardly ones. I can sympathize with her, but only to a certain degree. Rightfully, she deserves to be in jail, and hopefully by the time she’ll be eligible for parole, she’ll have the courage to live a more authentic life.
This letter–it reads more like a letter to a friend–is beautiful, Rainy Days & Lattes.
You are so thoughtful and aware, and you’ve done a great job having been through a really hard time, for a long time.
And, I bet you’ve learned a lot, not just about life, but about yourself…
…and that is the best kind of learning of all.
Good for you, and have faith in yourself…you’ve got yourself this far, and the rest may not be plain sailing, but you just have to know you’ll manage it all, come what may.
It is one thing to push your children to excel for themselves, but it is another to push them to excel for you. I think that is the problem with a lot of first generation Asian parents who are recent immigrants. They want their children to get good jobs and make a lot of money so that they can give back to the family and take care of them when they are old. The idea that their children would go way and make new lives for themselves separate from them is a completely foreign concept. It is a very Western idea. And because of this, children growing in a Western society with traditional Asian parents may feel trapped by their parents and feel like they have an unfair obligation that their Western peers don’t have. I think this is exactly what happened here. This doesn’t excuse Jennifer’s abhorrent behavior in any way of course, but it does explain the source of hatred towards her parents.
Thank you so much!
I’m not sure what a trophy child is, nor do I think does the author. Parents do not do this to their kids to show off their kids like some trophy – most of these tiger parents barely have a social circle to begin with, being mostly socially isolated due to being first generation who probably do not speak English fluently. Few readers are considering the life these first generation parents led – they studied and worked hard to be in the top 0.0001% that could leave their backwards country and come to the USA, where they then had to scrape by with nothing for years, in a culture and country they don’t understand, just to give a better life for their kids. Then, to see their kids squander these opportunities that they themselves could not have dreamed of growing up in Vietnam/China/dirt poor village….it must be frustrating.
No tiger parent does it out of some perverse trophy-wife like feeling of showing off their kid. They all do it out of their belief, rightly or wrongly, that this will give a better life for their kids. That is why Asian tiger parents almost always pay for college, and often even help buy a car after – they live for their kids and would be willing to spend their last penny on them.
Now, as a kid, I never looked at it this way. From my point of view, my friends had free time, parties, toys, game consoles, while I was forced to study 24/7. I hated my parents, and I could never relate to their stories of studying by candlelight, eating tree bark, because I just cared about how I was the bottom of the social totem pole at high school, and that was the WORLD to me.
As you get older, you get wiser. From a wiser standpoint, the parents are just trying to do what is right for her. It may not have had the desired affects, but no one can truly predict successive outcomes. If she had come to her parents after failing Calculus and they didn’t support her, I would agree with you, but she kept that lie going for years instead. If she had just told her parents immediately, they probably would have just yelled at her, then made her take Calculus over the summer and not delay graduation.
…sincerely, as you could tell!
: – )
She had one credit left, and made no effort to get it – her parents were in the dark, but if they knew, the “worse” thing they would have done is yell at her and then force her to get that credit – the blame for this situation is all on her.
Haha I think so, too! It’s funny because I assume my parents had very similar upbringings to Jennifer’s parents, considering they came to the country roughly around the same time. I guess they had more compassion and understanding. My siblings and I always had the desire to succeed because of them, which we are grateful for, and for a relatively normal childhood.
My mother was actually a stay at home mom, however, when my brother turned 5 and finished kindergarten, she went back to her job, and thus became busy with work. She allowed us to control our own lives, but I’m still pretty ok with the first few years of my life were hell. I mean, I owe my success to the habits that were implemented into me as a child. :)
Asian parents, or Asian cultures in general, do not express love, by saying “I love you”. They do it thorough actions instead, believing words to be empty. This can be seen in Chinese culture, for example, in the extremely low divorce rate, and the sacrifices wives and husbands make when the other falls deathly ill and cannot work. In the USA? Ha…..drop of a hat, and the “I love you” wife will leave the moment you can’t work anymore.
My point is, tiger parenting may be bad, and it certainly sucks to be a kid under such a regime, but all this attention, control, is the parent’s way of showing love by “caring”. I’d be more worried by an asian parent that didn’t care, as that is probably more of sign of lack of love.
Gain status? Have you met first generation parents, Chinese, Vietnamese, or otherwise? They are almost always reclusive, with only a few friends, if any, and those friends are usually the same social outcasts. They can’t speak English well, and they are not social butterflies going around showing off their trophy kid.
While they created the environment that may have caused their daughters behavior, I would not say they are to blame. That’s like blaming you for having a tree in your yard when it crashes down on your house. It is a cause, yes, but thousands of trees are in yards just fine without crashing down into it. Placing unrealistically high expectations on your kids is not limited to Asian parents, and it doesn’t make them “bad people” as you seem to suggest. Maybe their methods are wrong, but their daughter is not a puppet – she went to school, did her own thing, had her own cellphone and laptop. High expectations =/= puppet. Tiger parenting =/= trophy kid. These posters are clearly Americans who no concept of WHY these parents are doing what they are doing.
Thanks for the reply, and the link! Coincidentally, I’ve been following Anna Akana’s work for a while now, for both her Youtube Channel and her short films, and I’ll check out the link. I highly relate to her, being a fellow tiny, Asian girl, I relate to her videos. I noticed I don’t have a huge problem lying, I feel slightly bad, but it doesn’t bother me when I lie. I guess it’s a side effect of learning to lie to make yourself seem impressive, or lie about a math test you did less than stellar on. However, my parents were understanding, so I told the truth 50% of the time haha.
They gave her daughter a cellphone, laptop, and let her go to club activities and even sleepovers. Her school is the dream of all asian americans everywhere – academic success is celebrated, not bullied, and being a super-achiever makes you popular instead of a social outcast. Whatever caused this issue, it’s more internal to this girl than her parent’s fairly normal asian parenting.
Well, her “boyfriend” also set up the whole murder for her, so he’s pretty darn crazy as well.
It’s hardly fair to classify all Chinese, Korean, and Japanese parents are abusive, as it’s the SAME standards used by parents in those countries. Diseased mind? Jesus this comment is very un-respectful to East Asian cultures. Do we call American style hands-off parenting gateway to drugs-whoring-Starbucks barista? American parents are so open they support their kids choosing a career in porn, or dating a person 30 years older, or getting addicted to drugs. Isn’t that, in a way, abusive to the child as well?
I think no parent is perfect, and while Jen’s parents were too strict, and should have given her more breathing room, they are not child abusers, and you stating so is no more ridiculous than my previous statement.
This is a sad story. I found myself sympathetic for the girl in the beginning, but as she got deeper and deeper, it became harder and harder to do so. So many times the way out was right at her fingertips, but she was so deep in her own Hell she couldn’t see it. But he road she took was pretty much insane. I’m surprised her attorneys didn’t use that either.
My daughter’s 12 year old best friend lives at the end of our street and her family sounds so similar to the Pans. I myself was an overstressed over achiever as a child- but I have never in my life seen a child as pushed to such a crazy level as this little girl. She is of average intelligence- but pushed to have superior achievement even if it takes hours upon hours of study (which begins late in the evening after hours of extracurricular activities in which she also must excell).if I mention to her dad what an amazing, accomplished child she is he scoffs and says she is lazy. She is allowed to play with my daughter just on Friday evenings, as the rest of the week and weekend are for homework. They send her away for the entire summer when all she wants is to have a break- run through the sprinkler with my daughter and go swimming, be a little girl. When she is here I do all I can to let her know she is in a safe place where mistakes are allowed and mess is part of living. I make cookies with her and tell her she matters as she is and is a special kid. I hope it can show her that life doesn’t have to be so difficult, that kids can have fun. But I know in my heart it’s not enough. She is the most amazing kid, buy this life she is being forced to live is absolutely unsustainable and at some point I really think she will break from the pressure. And I don’t foresee her family handling that well at all. She will always have a safe home with my family if needed.
Of course it was her choice not to go to school again but how do you know that it even occurred to her to go? She was clearly under a lot of emotional stress… hense the lying and deceiving. Under that much stress it’s highly probable that she didn’t even think of trying to go back to school, her vision would have been extremely clouded and her ability to correctly added a situation and decide how to go forward dealing with that situation would have been hindered. If you let yourself open your mind a little bit and read through the story ad pretend you are Jennifer Pan maybe you’ll have a greater understanding
Thank you so much. :) Appreciate the comment. I’ve developed a few close friends over the years but I find many people judge you on the lack of experiences. I’m considering trying to use my law degree in other avenues now; I haven’t really had good luck in this field at all unfortunately.
thanks :) I agree to a certain extent; I don’t want to get too much into detail about my career path for privacy reasons on here but I’ve really struggled to find even a first year associate job and not sure it’s for me. I’ll see. Applying my legal skills & knowledge to a job in government would be great, but those jobs are difficult to get without significant connections or big name firms on your C.V. as well. It’s honestly difficult to know what will happen at this point; given the amount of sweat I’ve endured to get this far, I completely agree that I should give it a shot. But if it’s not working, it’s not working and may be best to find something else. At this point I just want something that’s fulfilling and pays well (given the amount of debt I’ve also incurred!!) and that’s fine with me. I’m not all hung up about being a lawyer anymore. I know that may sound disappointing to some but it’s the truth.
As for your other point — people DO exclude you for not knowing so much about movies/music. You’re lucky if people haven’t thus far, but you’ll definitely get quizzical looks and sideways glances and sometimes to simply avoid the line of questioning of “why haven’t you been to X country” or “why don’t you know this?” and having to get into quite personal information about myself with someone I barely know, I’d rather just lie and say I know something or have been there. But it depends on the situation and something you have to gauge for sure. Sometimes it’s best not to get caught in a lie, but at other times I’d rather just shrug something off and carry on.
Hey,
I definitely agree with all of what you wrote BUT FOR the fact that despite all my struggling and sacrificing, I am not making in the top 2% of income. If I did, I would definitely be happy and say it’s worth it, to enjoy all those things I missed out on but I’m not… so that’s my big struggle. I don’t even CARE to be a lawyer anymore, I just want something that’s somewhat fulfilling and will make lots of $$ to pay back debt and make this all worth it!!! :/ the economy for new lawyers is really tough, and honestly I don’t recommend people get into it unless they have significant connections and/or don’t have to incur any debt for it. It kills me to even think of it :(
Thanks for sharing your story as well, appreciate it. :) I hope you’re doing OK now.. have you found a job you enjoy, are you living on your own? I think these things should help… I’m still trying to attain that at the moment and I think once I do, things will be better for me :) One step at a time, right? At least you realize what your issues are (re. being too competitive with people) and can work on them… perhaps talking with a counsellor or friends may help? Developing a better friend base? I wish you all the best…
I can’t deal with self righteous ignorant people like yourself. No one said its right to pressure anyone yet I don’t think those are her parents intentions. Forget it. Not explaining. I hope your organic children turn into something other than a welfare-mooching hobo because their mother likes to preach without ever wearing the shoe. Go, go preach your life away on the Internet. Maybe your children will be hobos that’ll kill you also.
Thanks so much. You sound like an accomplished person learning more about yourself in your mid-20s… keep at it, and with luck, you’ll find what’s right for you :) I actually am not such a social butterfly… so it’s more difficult for me, but I can do well in networking scenarios. In my field it’s just very costly to attend a lot of those and it’s all about knowing the right people. In school I didn’t place enough emphasis on making the right connections/friendships and more on getting the right grades and that backfired. I would love to move and travel but don’t have the funds for it right now.. if I decide to just say good-bye to the whole law thing I could potentially switch gears and move across the country, to the States or something but not sure I’m ready for that yet. In the end, I’m just as uncertain as you. Do u live in the States now? I also feel like a student as I’m only living slightly above a student salary lol… it’s not the best life. You do what you do to get ahead but in the end… was it worth it? Can you *maintain* it? LIke you, I can jump in but can you float long enough to keep it going?
I’m not sure exactly what your impediments are… why you switch from job to job but it may be worth asking deeply what prompts you to change and why. Maybe you have certain skills and talents that can be better used in different capacities. Social skills are one of the most valued skills; you just need to find the right avenue for it. Good luck :)
Sorry to hear that – it sometimes it takes a lucky break before you “break” into the industry, but once you have 2-3 years experience, it’ll be easier to join any firm. Law is one of those professions that start slow – you need the most schooling for any profession, tied with Medicine, but you end up with the highest pay. You may have an unsuccessful year or two, but eventually you will find an entry level job in law. It may not pay well, and certainly not in the top 2% of anything, but it’s your doorway into the profession. Work hard for 8 years, and you’ll be making average lawyer income, which should put you in the top salary range of any country. Another 10-20 years (yes, that is a long time, but) and if you can make partner, your income will skyrocket above any profession.
At this point, your law degree debt is sunk cost. Don’t even think about it – it’s not like it will go away if you don’t practice law. You just need to find the highest gross from YOUR current position, and that position includes 4 years of law school. Almost undoubtedly it will be sticking with law and riding out the un-glamorous, low pay beginning years for the golden years that come after that. You can also try entering the USA law job market, which is very tough competitively, but pay significantly higher.
It may seem like the wall is so high right now, but imagine you have the same debt load but have a major in Art History. it just isn’t the same. Your debt is front loaded, while your pay is back-loaded to when you have 10+ years work experience, so it will only get better over time.
if this was Chinatown and her parents were business owners, I’d say gangsters seduced her on purpose to ruin the family business and extort and that it got out of control and ended up in a not necessarily profitable murder but who knows maybe they have a coveted building. She’s not exactly the kitten face gamine type that gangsters actually like to have as girlfriends. She’s kind of the opposite of their usual type.
Jennifer sounds like she has borderline personality disorder.
I remember an Indian buddy of mine getting a hard time at work specifically because his rival a Chinese female was in tight with their boss – she used to sit on the couch of the inner sanctum constantly and have chats so he was really worried because she was also prone to making aggravating comments at him but my mother told him to not worry about her because her pettiness would make her enemies and he felt better.
Perhaps, perhaps not. A lot of those jobs at chains / franchises are cookie cutter. Too really cut it on your own takes more than that.
But she didn’t try hard enough to break free and plotting her parents’ death is unacceptable.
Chinese elders do not like to see lying in small children – they consider it a bad sign. My three year old cousin gaslit me to our Chinese school teacher when she fell running away from her grandfather on the way to school – she said I pushed her and because i didn’t know the word for lie at the time, I said that she was not supposed to say that. Her aunt was best friends with the school principal. I got sent to stand in the corner – the only time I have ever gotten into trouble in school.
My aunt also noticed that before my cousin would badmouth someone, she would ask if you knew that person so I don’t believe that signs should be dismissed as children merely being children.
wow my parents were totally indifferent to their kids progress and futures.
haha – if she did not loved her parents, she wouldn’t have had them terrified and then shot to death?
yeah, cuz a bullet in the head is like a massage after a long day at work. My father felt the bullet that was shot into the back of his head because my mother was shown a tv screen of his face in an expression of pain at the morgue.
It’s unrealistic to think that the rest of the world both your competitors who have achieved similarly or those who have achieved less will be sympathetic to the Tiger Mom plea for sympathy just as no one sympathizes with financial woes of the wealthy.
maybe you’re not as happy at your hard won employment because you are first generation and don’t have the foundation of Westernized parents to realize how difficult it is to be where you are at now. I always find it so strange that people act like oh if I dont quit my six figure job and do something creative, I am being a boring Asian or being a boring nobody. What in the world? you should be grateful to have a salary because immigrant storekeepers will tell you that it is rough collecting a basic salary because you are unhirable as a Chinese immigrant – retail is not for dilettantes. I was perfectly prepared to keep a job that the receptionist advised me had been filled previously by two Chinese females exactly like me who eventually quit because they weren’t promoted and were expected to make their new younger white male bosses look good (to me that sounds like heaven).
how do you know you are fooling all of the people all of the time instead of being in a pool full of similar small talk experts who give observers a bad vibe of clique-ishness and are easily offended if you aren’t allowed to believe that your schtick is working?
these aren’t even rich people problems, right? are these even problems at all?
have you actually interacted with the working class immigrants because Jennifer Pan’s parents employment indicate they are nothing like the regular immigrants – there has to be something more to this case.
the only thing I remember about high school, was a whole lot of classmates making out in the lockers and stairwell.
Catholics!
whats up with Daniel Wong’s parents allowing that girl to live-in like that?
that’s not even non-Asian – what parents of any color would allow that and these people all own homes and have upper middle class income, right?
very dirty (and yet still dorky)
so she liked the McMansion finishes? or was she just gaga over Daniel-san who is now also in Jail. What geniuses.
Nobody is excusing murder. We’re just digging for possible motivations, whether or not they may actually be true. Unless we get interviews with her whole family – even if – we’ll never know the complete truth, since people lie and are clouded by their own biases, so some people are just using this forum to open up a discussion about potential reasons.
By saying this was about the money, you, also, are just offering a possible but unsubstantiated explanation, based on conclusions you drew from the article. Everybody here is just doing the same. Nobody on this thread that is in any way rational is blaming Jennifer’s parents or trying to excuse her behavior.
it doesnt matter if it is out of love or narcissism – you are still getting personalized training to succeed in life something that Asia Carrera did not appreciate and look what happened to her!
I knew I wanted to leave home when I was 8 years old but I would never do anything unsafe because on the other side of the door is organized crime. Asia Carrera not only hitchhiked but became a stripper and then did porn.
I think one of my half cousins ran away from home and ended up in backwaters in marriages to sassenach americans with KIDS. Hhhh. My mom’s classmate SOBBED when her beautiful but Americanized niece did not go back to Hong Kong with her but attached herself to a sloppy American boyfriend. Maybe it’s true love but if you’re not smart, you could end up becoming a cautionary tale because of your preexisting emotional fragility and warped idea of what it means to be American.
I hope and pray that my half cousin is not out there like that and this is just some weird joke that her parents play on people at family gatherings that we never attend.
what may be missing from what sound to be predominantly Chinese/Yuet anecdotes is the understanding of the reality of the alternative which I think colors Korean anecdotes so they are less dissatisfied with the outcome which to third parties is very alienating – people are not going to feel sorry for tiger cubs and their six figure salaries – you cant have the success and also be considered a victim e.g. Jeremy Lin.
she was already out the door half the week but Daniel-san broke up with her so she decided to kill her parents and he became interested in her instead of freaked out?
I go to bed thinking about kittens and babies. I love sleeping even on my crap ache inducing mattress because as one of my Columbian drivers once told me – in my country, we sleep in hammocks not mattresses. I LOVE my crap mattress. I love my broken bathroom with the water that comes out of the grotty showerhead. I love washing machines and tv and internet.
Both my parents were anti automatic marriage and openly indifferent about kids and I absolutely believe them which is why I understood when Mrs De Blasio said she wasn’t too into being a full time mom. You don’t have to apologize for being honest or even better being accurate. All of these tiger parents could have tiger parented themselves and maybe owned big businesses by now.
uh it sounds like it’s about the suicidal patient not just the abuse suffered. It’s better to accept your parents’ shortcomings so you will not be surprised when they really screw up or get into trouble.
but most immigrant parents SHOULD have kids who do well and make the whole family thrilled like they are suddenly upgraded. I feel bad that the Ivy League schools are not accepting as many Asians since so many working class families would get such a kick out of having their kids at those schools but there is a wisdom in how they choose, I think, plus they need to spread these kids especially if they are techies into state university programs.
did she carom out of control when Daniel “saved her life”? maybe she is just really tacky and reads Twilight without irony.
uh how do you know she had a beautiful mind? look at what she did. it’s like something out of a crystal meth backwater …
Blame Canada?
uh I think in the Chinese world, this would be seen as her getting mesmerized by being DATED and that threw her off course for many years. Who are his parents? How could they be so unchivalrous as to allow her to stay over for years??
it’s a cheap palate that yearns for the taste of counterfeit or befouled regard
LOL, you obviously have no clue about growing up with that kind of pressure, and you can’t even spell the name of your political idols. No further questions… gfy
dude, maybe she is just making conversation with you by telling you all of this and actually has no problem with how her mother behaves because they both see it as the path to yuppie income. Maybe you’re just the bartender.
This is why some Asian kids love the Breakfast Club. These are not tragic problems.
what if some of it is about being in sync with their parents’ goals for them … ya think?
why is she forgivable – her parents got shot because of her.
As an Asian-American, I do empathize with this story as it resonates with me (and I’m sure a lot of other AA’s as well). There’s a lot of pressure for us to succeed, and yes, many Asian parents measure up their kids against other friends’ “perfect” children who get perfect SAT scores, great grades, and end up getting into Harvard. I remember all of that contributing to a great deal of stress/pressure especially in my high school years.
I also remember forging report cards to show my parents, as I feared showing B’s and C’s on my progress reports (they found out, of course). And the pressure of being forced to play the piano by my dad (and actually becoming pretty good at it to the point I won a lot of awards, etc.) even though I really was not as passionate as he was about it (thousands and thousands of dollars on piano lessons). Looking back at it now 10 years later, I feel he was wanting me to become the master pianist he never had a chance to be. While I know now my parents did genuinely want the best for me, it just doesn’t come across that way when you’re in high school, still trying to figure out what the world is all about and what you even want to accomplish in life. That’s why this story definitely is relatable to me (and many others). (This contributed partially, but not all, to some of the horrible life decisions she made as she decided to lie that she was going to a college)
Where I’m from (California), there are also stories of Asian high school students coming up with ridiculous tactics to infiltrate teachers’ computers to change grades (and got caught, of course). I feel that, and this story, all stem partially from the “pressure” that you feel as an Asian-Ameircan adolescent with “tiger” parents.
That being said, now that I’m inching toward my late 20s now, I’ve started to appreciate my parents more and more. Even if their tactics sometimes were harsh and seemed slightly oppressive at that time, they always had your best interest in mind, and made ridiculous sacrifices to provide their kids with more opportunities that they themselves will never have in life. I get along better with them now more than ever before and I’m grateful that they provided me with the support to lead me in the right direction toward a long, successful career/life. It’s going to be up to me to steer my own ship, but I know they did their best as parents to get me going in the right direction.
Back on topic of the story, there is obviously a tragic snowball effect when one lie turned into another lie that led to another lie, thanks to a number of factors: the bad friends she made, the bad decisions she made (and the positive reinforcement she got from it when those “lies” worked in her favor), etc. It’s an extreme, extreme case to say the least. Just a combination of so many things going the wrong way (plus someone who turned absolutely despicable/evil) that led to this unfortunate, tragedy for that family.
I only know the cool working class ones who seem like they are lovely parents.
uh I think this was supposed to be a coverup so she could collect inheritance and insurance and now it has veered into being mischaracterized as an Esmie Tseng situation.
pharmacy
for all we know she was totally on it and wanted to be valedictorian etc but got all Rain Man when that didn’t happen exactly as planned – and then Daniel San happened … so it was character – her character that set her on the path to MURDERING her parents not their tiger momming.
“Where did Jennifer learn deceit? I don’t believe it was from her parents or her upbringing.”
And you would be dead wrong. If you want to learn more, listen to Paul Gilmartin’s podcast, episode 178 with Anna Akana http://mentalpod.libsyn.com/episode-178-anna-akana
She talks at length about her very strict Japanese father and about becoming a habitual liar.
Also, read some of the other comments here. Some of the people here specifically mention this very same thing: kids from Asian-American families breaking into school computers, manipulating report cards, lying about their grades etc.
so murderers should find jurors who see their own suffering in the Defendant and then somehow instead of reacting in the opposite direction of not excusing her but bend over backwards and sympathize with her?
nah
uh no this level – a higher level than the working class immigrants – they tend to socialize togehter, compete, compare notes and are catty with one another – my dad avoided these kinds of families.
I dont think it matters if she was tiger mommed or if she was loved and their discipline was well meant and justified
this is significant because tiger momming is being used as an excuse/explanation of murder ie. the perp was victimized first plus post crime, everyone speaks for you and you are voiceless which is inspiration for gaslighting – you can do a murder suicide appearance on a home invasion especially if the press is on your side.
ohhh, she was deprived of this or that, blah, blah – its both fertile ground for self excuses for murderers AND for framing a loner as a dangerous Boo Radley type.
I dont think it is eye opening except the same training in being self centered extends even to feeling yourself a victim.
this has nothing to do with crap parents – this has to do with her hiring schoolmates to kill her parents and the uninvestigated story is the influence of her boyfriend – who was selling pot so very much like the killers in the Stuart Tay case
greed and bullying does not stop once these families achieve success and wealth – they feel empowered to become predators
I just shudder at the repeated mention of flirting between Jennfier and Daniel who resemble one another.
was this before or after Angelina Jolie told everyone she did it?
for what? for misusing/applying a concept?
the strawberry milkshake murderesss in hong kong blamed the boring expat life
These initiatives are so awesome! Your son is definitely lucky, and the fact that he has found self-motivation is the most gratifying thing. Emotional Intelligence is absolutely necessary to fostering healthy and ambitious attitudes, and it’s wonderful that only have you realized this yourself, you are trying to help others realize this.
insurance and inheritance so she can get Daniel back
its not tragic in the neutral space of not seeing this as a race based issue
she lied a lot and haha Dad survived to her dismay AND managed to get out of the house and shout at a neighbor – foiled again as it were.
sometimes ostriches are their own flying monkeys – she didnt have the moral standards that told her that all the duplicity so many years is a bad sign and should not be handfed
what college did Daniel go to?
She had a better life and probably still does than rainforest tribes and Namibians.
wth? being a parent doesnt mean you are a moral person. Hirohito was a parent,
wow – why would gangrape be a reason for a reunion?
I don’t even know where that comes from. is he a gangster? where did he get the marijuana?
Life is hard and they are doing what they think is the best. We all just wanted love, support, and nurture. When you are deprived of it you will want it more then anything.
evil
I never cheated on a test in my life – omg – this is the opposite of all those sweet old timers who raised perfect kids in Chinatown when I was a toddler – cheating was beneath them
unfortunately i met a Chinatown resident who got suspended from college for cheating on his international finance midterm possibly because he failed to BULLY me into cutting the class so I could attend senate meetings in his stead and then he tried to badmouth me to the entire world as a result. I didnt even argue with him just said no when he asked for a favor and then I had all these upper classmen asking me if I was okay and if I had calmed down.
I probably got a D in that class since I never understood what was going on in school but I never cheated.
pressure? that doesnt sound like pressure compared to many people’s lives.
what about the pot and that dirty having your gf stay over for YEARS?
that sounds like sympathizing with Dorian Gray’s suffering.
After reading this story, it’s hard for me to blame the parents or the girl. If I had to blame the parents, I would blame them for not following up with their daughter’s progress in school–not connecting with her teachers through open house sessions, etc. I would blame the girl for not having courage to face her own failures. Even in her 20s, when they found out her lies, she could simply walk away and lived on her own.
I hope her brother is out of reach when she gets out of jail.
my parents were clueless about education and never checked up
Re-read my comment. “that kind of pressure”. There are many different kinds of pressure, and I was talking about a qualitative difference, not a quantitative difference.
really? I thought it was just sheer meanness that kept the Holocaust going.
I remember a dad and his young sons that would set up their wares after dark on Mott Street. I have no idea how they made ends meet but they adored each other.
it doesnt matter if she was or was not loved or whatever you feel sure of – she killed and tried to play a fellow victim at the murder scene so her motive is not revenge or trauma but very likely $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Glad that your story has a nice ending.
As an Asian parent, it’s good for me to read your story. Although I am not much of a “tiger” father, I do want to know the feelings from the children’s points of view. Thanks for sharing.
many people in these comments are excusing murder
the whole truth is duty to retreat and the fact that there is no self defense in this case
if I killed someone, I’d admit it I wouldnt cover it up at all. And I wouldnt expect to be excused.
all the lying and cheating even trying to cheat being caught for murdering her parents – its reprehensible and dangerously is lending itself to tiger cubs jumping onto the me victim bandwagon which will allow murders, more claims of personality disorders quasi insantiy.
what you should be doing is running Oz for them and showing them do not get caught, don’t even START whatever it is you are planning – instead we give free college to prisoners.
not everyone bites into that pomegranate in Hades
haha
The consequences of tiger parenting, bitter hate and anti social behavior. You have to love your kids for who they are and be there for them, not what you feel they should be. They’re not robots and they’re not a performance trophy. Tell them you love them, give them what they need to succeed, give them space, watch them grow, let them find their way in life, and make sure they live to the fullest. I think every parent wants their kids to have a better life but you can’t live out your dreams through your kids and their worth should never be based on your own definition of success.
She is the Asian version of Amazing Amy from Gone girl. Not on achievement but mental state.
Ummm she had her mother killed. A woman that deeply loved her and carried her for nine months she had her killed. Jennifer could have just left her parents house. She planned this and executed it there were a million other things she could have done then try and have her parents killed. She wanted their money and she wanted live a good lifestyle.
I am so sorry JEng. I want to cry reading your story.
Sad part is her parents didn’t react too badly when they found out she made a fountain of lies over the decades. They might have been hard on her but she could have made her own life several times. She’s a year older then I am and she could have went back to high school finished the class then college and her got her degree by now. They were okay with her getting a degree in nursing and just having a decent job. Heck if she would have said I wanna study piano, art, or history they might have even been okay with it. Her father he’s a victim in this He came here with nothing and worked hard to get his children a nice house and everything they needed. Her mother worked hard too they both did everything for their children and she just wanted their money. That’s it they were just tools to her.
Hey, I am grateful but my job right now sucks.. I don’t really want to get into it but it’s not at my potential. I’m nowhere near a 6 figure salary.. making half of that lol. So I’m basically underemployed… just doing this in the meantime until I find a better job in a law firm or elsewhere. Like another poster said.. I went through 8 years of school/articling and debt so I’m hoping I’ll find somewhere to make it all worth it.
Jennifer does NOT hold the blame for this. Neither really do her parents. If anyone can be blamed, it is freaking Confucius that bastard
Merely apportioning time and funds is shallow and insufficient. Children more than anything need to be loved, and they need to know that they are loved. This love must not be conditional upon good grades, or perfect obedience. Your goal as a parent is to prepare your children to eventually enter the real world and live without your constant guidance and instruction. This requires letting them make their own decisions, while learning from the natural consequences of those decisions. Your purpose as a parent is to provide guidance, support, and experience as they struggle to learn for themselves. It is not to make them forever subject to your rule, or to force them down the path that you think is best for them.
There is loads of research on “Authoritarian” parenting styles, and the associated problems that arise in the children as a result of it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parenting_styles#Authoritarian_parenting
The expectations to do well (in education) and secure a good job are characteristics of Asians…whether one is immigrant or not. Asian DNA expects the best performance in education. What she could have done is moving out of the home so nobody gets hurt physically. Moving out is a common thing in western world so the blame is still on the daughter who wanted it all.
It says in the article that after Daniel broke up with her, Jennifer lied and said she got gang raped by cops, implying that she did this in order to make him worry and come back to her.
“Daniel had grown weary of their secret romance… and he broke off their relationship. Jennifer was heartbroken. Shortly thereafter, she learned that Daniel was seeing a girl named Christine. In an attempt to win back his attention and discredit Christine, she concocted a bizarre tale. She told him a man had knocked on her door and flashed what looked like a police badge. When she opened the door, a group of men rushed in, overpowered her and gang-raped her in the foyer of her house.”
Wow that’s a heavy story.
I’m sure that as far as they knew or cared she was a mature adult? Who didn’t live under the strict supervision and rules of her parents? Remember at this point she was over 18 years old which makes her an adult and gives her the right to live her life however she chooses without needing parental consent.
Thanks for sharing. I can definately relate as I am now approaching 30 myself and I was brought up in a poor Asian family. So much of this article resonates with me and in many ways worse. I grew up in a very similar environment to what Jennifer would have so I can definately empathise with what she would have been going through. To my parents, It was all about academic achievement. I guess from their perspective, they saw education as a way out of poverty and to help set me up to be able to earn a decent living with reasonable salary as an adult. I used to dread school holidays because not only did I not get to go see my friends, I had to do even more work than I normally would have as I was set additional homework tasks by my parents. As my parents were poor. we couldn’t afford extracurricular activities and I spent most days at home. When they had the money, they would rather spend it on English/Maths/Science tutoring class for me rather than for me to be able to have fun. As a result, I didn’t have many friends growing up and often found myself outcasted from the groups. While other kids would hang around after school, I would go home to study. I could recall all these useless mathematical formulas but I knew absolutely nothing about pop culture such as latest songs, etc. We joke as much that for a B is known as an “Asian Fail” as thats just not good enough for our parents when it was a supurb result for most other people. I did survive those years with integrity and honesty. I didn’t do well in some subjects but did not ever outright lie about it. At the end of the day, as long as I believe I tried my best, then there was nothing more to give.
All that study eventually paid off as I managed to get into a good university. It wasn’t until uni that my parents started to ease off and I was granted more freedom. It was during this time that I was able to do a lot of things I never could do before e.g Go to movies, sporting events and hang out with new found friends etc. However, its still not the same, I still sometimes find it hard to network and be able to meet new people. Its the classic book smart vs street smart debate. Most Asian parents overwhelmingly go down the book smart route and their children suffer for it. I do not blame my parents as I think they tried to do their best based on their experience as a poor immigrant moving to a foreign country. Sure, I wish that they had given me a more rounded childhood but I cannot fault them for wanting what they thought was best for me. Although what they think is best is not always the best for the lack of better judgement. I
I was fortunate enough to graduate from uni just before the GFC when there were still plenty of positions open. I have been working in a professional job ever since. Still, I find socialising and networking events hard but I sometimes have to force myself to do it for the sake of career advancement. At the end of the day, I’m just glad I got a professional job and can support myself financially and can be truly independent of my parents.
I think in your case, you need to evaluate if Law really is for you. I know a lot of parents want their children to get into prestigious professions with being a lawyer being one of them. However, if you dread the profession already then you got to think in the long term you still got another 30+ years of it before you can reasonably retire. I don’t believe it is ever too late to change and 30 is still young for a career change. What is important is that you need to know what you are passionate in and what makes you happy. life is too short to be snowed under doing things you don’t want to do. You are better off finding a career that you actually want to do. No one truly knows they don’t like something unless they have tried it so perhaps giving another profession a go may help you find it. Its better to be happier and doing something you want to do (and maybe less prestigious) than to be continually doing things you hate. Lifes too short to be stuck with something you don’t enjoy doing.
Jennifer is not insane. I feel sorry for Daniel the most. Trying to help a girl he loved and the greed of coming into some money drove him insane. These tiger parents and their foolish dreams are to blame. Completely overwhelmed by American/Western dream in order to make up for their own impoverished childhood. Awful stuff.
All very sordid, desperate and sad. Amy Chua is a off her head with her banal pronouncements
I went to Mary Ward with Jennifer and Daniel. They were not popular or well known. They were band geeks. Daniel smoked pot. Jennifer was invisible. Maybe they were known in the Asian circle. Mary ward was very race divided. Europeans at the top. This girl paints Mary Ward as some bohemian utopia. Yes it was a fun school to go to, if you had any kind of social life you were going to struggle. It was independent study, google it. I didn’t graduate either. But instead of going batshit I got a job and did really well. I’m European, my parents were just as tough. my rebellion was getting a job and becoming completely self sufficient. This girl was stupid. She deserves her sentence.
I wish my parents realized this instead of beating me when I was a kid. and I’m not even asian.
This hit home for me, but I still believe Jennifer is really stupid and couldn’t stop doing the wrong thing. She should have just finished HS as the right thing to do WHILE she was lying to her parents, then after that leech money from her parents and not call them back at all like the rest of us ill-born abused Asian Americans are doing.
The fact of the matter is, Jen was too weak of a person to be manipulative back. She only fought back by lying and that fucking gets you nowhere in this world. That’s why I feel so sorry for her.
Literally every single tigermom’d adult from my HS class doing the money-leeching thing right now, from my class of 2008. My school was a preppy $35,000 USD tuition international English-speaking HS. Those people literally turned it into a type of non-sexual financial domination, except with their PARENTS. It’s a type of revenge, too. Even I’m doing it, and I’m not proud of it. The thing is, I don’t love my parents at all. Why? Because they’re horrible narcissistic people who tried to also marry me off twice to get raped every night by some old man AND they tried to force me to undergo plastic surgery for my legs and my face even though I’m not fucking hideous at all. Yada yada, piano lessons/ballet/orchestra/high pressure environment. My life is much the same. I just took a different fucked up path and at least now I’m the one in control. At least I’m alive and not in jail, because I didn’t go THIS far.
I’m sorry, but Jennifer fucked up so much and just kept fucking up. She really should have talked to somebody else about this crap, like an actual therapist. That worthless bf of hers also sounds like such a fuckin’ enabler. I thought people in a relationship were supposed to better each other, not make everything go down the rabbit hole, wtf.
Mostly Asian problem. Some other blue collar immigrants also join the madness of pushing their kids over the edge whilst the parents shortcomings are masqueraded as aspiration. It is actually funny that these parents are living in the West but are unaware of the childhood idiom ‘all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy’.
I think you should reread my comment carefully.
Okay so I’ve actually done a project on the differences between asian and classic western upbringings. And the thing about Asian immigrant parents is that they sacrifice a lot to come to Western countries (typically Canada or America) to help their kids get a better future. They do this for their kids because they love their kids, of course.
This sounds great and all, but the thing is, Asian parents then expect a return on their investment, basically. Their kids are expected to excel in school, graduate, make it into a good college, graduate, then get a high-paying job and then help their parents. Children going off and making their own lives completely separate from their parents is a Western thing, and really not what most Asian immigrant parents expect to happen. So they consciously or unconsciously put all this pressure on their children. They might do it out of love, or they might do it because they want a “trophy” for them to brag about, but both ways, they don’t realize the consequences. They just think they’re doing what’s best for their children.
NOTE: That is not to say that Jennifer is excused for her murder, she did an awful thing, but I can see how exactly she got to that point.
Good to hear from people that knew her and can tell everyone that she’s batsh!t crazy and no one should feel sympathy for her.
Stupid asians. They not so smart are they?
She had simply turned evil due to some bad influence from her boy friend and other friends, and perhaps the amoral American culture in general.
Her parents pushed her grades and forgot to educate her personality. I guess a lot of Asian households struggle to establish themselves in a hostile and racist environment and their resources are stretched very thin. They are looked down by and want to prove themselves to be equal to white people.
I’m not ABC, I’m Hong Kong-born and studied in the US for a while. What I observe is that American Asians have less pride in themselves. It’s very difficult to maintain a healthy self-esteem in that environment. Asian boys always wondering why they “can’t get a blonde girl” and things like that, conditioned by the culture around them. It may take a lot of time and maturity to overcome the inferiority feelings.
Many teenagers wish their parents dead but they keep it as a morbid fantasy. The people in this story have criminal minds and it was just a matter of time before they escalated to murder.
Kids need balance. Love, discipline, friends, achievement, hard work. You raising a person not a achievement.
I am 100% sure that if her parents didn’t have life insurance, much cash, and paid off house, she would have not killed them but left home long time ago. GREED!!!
it sullies the host family – I don’t know any family friends who would stand to have such a houseguest even for one night – this is not a hotel (this is not a barn is what my grandmother would say about PDAs nevermind this love hotel b.s.) – you have a home, you have parents, you cannot stay overnight.
you’re not supposed to do anything in your parents house – I guess it is okay in a nonprimary residency clubhouse where you are using multiple assignations with DIFFERENT girls is okay so they can all be your witnesses and fill out affidavits that they KNOW you live there cuz they dont realize how many affidavits you can actually collect.
we don’t open the door at all when someone rings not even if they were FBI – see you at the office and we don’t meet with the FBI at all.
she got raped in her parents house – was there a police report?? didn’t he CHECK or take her to the hospital?
I can’t imagine that would get anyone to reunite. First of all, you need to go to the hospital, second of all you should not involve third parties because you will get them killed AND you do not want anyone to speak for you except yourself – you have to own your testimony – and third of all, he’s not a cop, he’s not a lawyer – you need the DA and PD not some EX.
I don’t know if weed deeler can be believed about this gangrape story which makes him sound like an idiot and her like a liar and what were they doing sending flirty texts (ughh) if she was a rape victim? this sounds so stupid and false that they probably got a heavier sentence for lying on top of everything else.
I just wanted to be left alone. I don’t agree that you need big shows of physical affection or honey this or honey that – the guy who always employed that was playing mahjong while his wife was in the delivery room while my dad was at the other side of the door. the guy who goes out in the middle of the night for you may never hug you or say American words but not everyone needs that – it would skeeve me out if my parents were like that.
But many immigrants dont know what they are doing but are still very nice – there is a big difference individually based on how they were parented but a lot of people were very primitively transactional about making families. that’s the reality and it doesnt make them ogres but they really benefited from having supportive new communities but it doesn’t fly that the beneficiaries’ shortcomings were not noticed by the givers.
Gran Torino, right?
I think Amy Chua wrote not because she was a Tiger Mom – but she noticed something about achievement on paper Asians and about Joy Luck Club moms. A lot of people are not that nice – of all colors – but look good on paper – but there may be distress on the Asian immigrants of not getting the lottery ticket they expected when their kids were put through all the right moves. I think there is a problem if you aren’t natural and the rest of the country is expected to work alongside you and be competing with promotions with you.
We’ll see. I have a feeling that things will normalize in terms of achievements amongst different tribes.
Stories like this really force me to ponder things. I grew up in the opposite environment of this family and from many in the comment section. Born to a red neck household far from the city I grew up with a dying father and a mentally unsound mother. Half empty scotch and gin bottles were always lying around. I was very familiar with social
services by 18 and the environment of low expectations. My academic pressure came in the form of discouragement. I will never forget the guidance councillor chuckling at me asking for information about colleges. But I persevered and got my self an education
and a solid career in the big city (for which most back home will never forgive me).
I thought I would meet well adjusted smart folks here in the GTA. This article and many comments here remind me of a valuable life lesson; dysfunctional families cross all incomes and cultures. Just because a BMW sits in the drive way of a
two car garage it does not signify harmony and tranquillity.
Cue Evita.
I would advise against feeling sorry for anyone so easily.
Sometimes people will bring up how they got beaten or how they got stabbed or whatever and they are not looking for sympathy – just stating a fact, making a point – but adults should man up and not look to use that kind of past as some kind of weapon against others – Ohh my dad hit me for nearly stabbing my sister in the eye – that’s why I hoard and am such a bastard to you and your mother, etc.
GROW UP.
if someone knows what it feels like to get the stick, then they should wield the baton more thoughtfully because they know that one hard as you can hit will make them feel out from the other side of where you hit. if you know that, then you have less of an excuse for doing it to someone else.
never let the goblins employ a sob story real or fabricated to excuse their own misdeeds – it should INDICT them not excuse them.
and that’s where EVERYBODY else who has been through at least as bad comes in – to stop all the excuses of criminals – oh, I was molested as a child so I became a rapist … well, here are a ton of people who suffered the same thing and none of them have ever gone on to hurt another person.
everything is used as a weapon by criminals include this distasteful mawkish manipulation of ohhh, I was FORCED to be a straight A student so it is the obligation of EVERYONE ELSE to put it down immediately – nip it in the bud.
I hope my half cousins becoming teen moms and one of them running off is a total lie told to the other branch of the family. those were nice girls from what I saw of them but if they were teen moms with idiot white high school classmates, its cuz they drank the kool aid and misinterpreted it. You don’t owe anything in order to be a social person. A lot of friendly people are very private as their families trained them to be – that was my experience with American kids with … white … and black parents. I don’t know if this is true that all these Asians claim such dissonance – ohhh I’m TORN between two worlds. it sounds so melodramatic when most Asian households are very boring.
a bimbo is a bimbo doesnt matter if you are an FOB or a banana
a murderer is a murderer
I don’t consider my half cousins to be bimbos if they were teen moms. I think that is so sad because it would have caused them pain and sorrow as clueless immature girls – their parents I’m not too worried about because they are adults and can take it but from what I remember about my half cousins – they were nice kind girls – a little banana but that’s no sin.
I consider Jennifer Pan a bimbo – making up gangrape is so disrespectful of rape victims.
That was an amazing exposition. I wish we knew each other
Why is it that when an asian person commits a horrible crime, it’s like national front page news. meanwhile, this kinda stuff happens all the time. Someone explain this one to me.
For example, rapes happen all the time. One time, this asianguy raped a girl. OMG STOP STOPPPPPP!! stop the press
I really don’t see a connection…
Well, I would argue that Jennifer holds the blame for the crime. She contracted those guys to kill her parents, and repeatedly lied to the police to cover it up, so she clearly knew that what she did was wrong.
Thanks :) Sounds like we had pretty similar paths, except you didn’t go onto grad/professional school after undergrad. I’m hoping to just get an admin type job in government now… something not too stressful that pays well and allows me time to pursue my interests and travel — things I never had a chance to do before. It’s tough to find that balance but gov’t jobs seem to be the best for it, so that’s why I’m trying to get in there. Law is another possibility just because it pays relatively well compared to other jobs but getting in somewhere is the toughest part and something I think I could stomach.
I don’t really want to go thru more schooling.. I did 8-9 years of school; I’m sick of it now and CANNOT take on more debt. Not even sure it’s possible, nor would I want it. I’m fine with making a change to another career so long as my law credentials are good enough for it; I may consider a certificate program as well while working but that’s it… I do feel too old to make a significant career change at this time. Hopefully law is versatile enough to apply to other careers, that’s just what I’m hoping. :)
Question: how do you deal with the lack of pop culture knowledge from not being exposed to it as a kid/teenager and maybe in your 20s? I never really had an interest in movies/TV at all during ad after teenage years.. so I’m really playing ‘catch up’ now but only to a certain extent. With movies, I want to see classics… with TV, just aim to be current, not going to go back and watch ’90s TV shows and those in early 2000s, I just don’t care enough to do it, franklyyyyyy. I was pretty good about listening to music in undergrad but never religiously followed any bands/singers… I caught up recently with 90s music but it’s moreso movies/TV that’s lacking… do you just pretend you know or admit to it?
I’m sad to hear that opportunities haven’t been opening themselves to you :( But law degrees can be versatile and every kind of operations, whether NGO, startups, restaurants, etc. need legal counsel, so hopefully something you feel passionately about/isn’t so taxing will come up soon. I too have struggled with really hard hours and mediocre pay in the past couple years, leading to even more of a dearth of enriching experiences like travel and concerts and so on, but I feel like being with my friends and feeling like a part of a community has really helped make my life enriching in the absence of those experiences. So I’m glad you’ve been able to develop those close friendships, definitely lean on those!
Thanks! Frankly, I’ve been having these debates/discussions with my own parents (which mostly turned into intense arguments, as you can imagine) for many years, so I’ve been sorting through these thoughts for a long time.
It’s less about the crime itself than the peculiarities of the case, specifically her Asian immigrant upbringing. This is recently drawing more and more media attention, not just in this case.
A recent study found that the children of Asian immigrants disproportionately battle with social isolation, academic pressure, poor communication with parents and lack of coping skills: http://www.thestar.com/news/immigration/2015/06/10/study-raises-alarm-over-mental-health-of-asian-immigrant-youth.html
Jennifer Pan’s case is just a particularly horrible way in which the typical challenges faced by Asian immigrant youth played out. That’s why the case made headline news, because it’s part of a recent academic realization of a much wider pattern.
Yeah kids also need time to just be kids without parental supervision and interference and planning. Not “play dates”.
“Children going off and making their own lives completely separate from their parents is a Western thing”
So Asian parents basically want to have their cake and eat it too. They want all the perks of the West for themselves in an Asian traditional family way, but they don’t want their kids to live their own lives and actually be Western kids. That’s really selfish, narcissistic and perverted imho. And it’s no wonder that they would rationalize this as “love”.
My parents were the complete opposite, in the sense that they allowed me to do whatever I wanted. It was a faithful upbringing though, so there’s that divide between us, now that I’m emancipated
Reminds me of the way Casey Anthony was raised and lied and lied to her parents too about living a life she was not living.
thanks! when did you graduate from university? Usually really hard hours & mediocre pay doesn’t go together but when you’re underemployed it’s the reality.. I wish you all the best as well :) The only thing is, I do have friends but they’re from all different circles, not one friend group & we don’t really do things together… I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s so hard coordinating things like nights out or concert goings sometimes that it’s best to just go solo, otherwise I risk it not panning out… but not even sure I have the money for it now anyway. :/ I really just want to save up for a nice trip abroad.
not exactly sure what you’re getting at here with “are these even problems at all”… what are you referring to? But Jennifer Pan’s case is complex… I do think she was partially financially motivated — I read that she stood to inherit half a million dollars and she wanted out and wanted to start a new life for herself. It’s not an honest or legal way to go about it and I disagree with her decision of course, but there seems to be a number of motivations for why she did what she did. Only she really knows the truth of it.
Yep, mine run like Monkeys outside half the day!
Thank you. I don’t think it is only specific to Asian. Since then I founded Povi Family Connect app. I want to help other parents to talk to their children and touch their emotions beyond the mundane “How’s your school?” Check us out https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.antwish.povi.familyconnect&hl=en
Thank you. Check out and help me spread the words on Povi Family Connect app. I truly want to help other parents to talk to their children and touch their emotions beyond the mundane “How’s your school?” Check us out https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.antwish.povi.familyconnect&hl=en
Thank you. I like Povi Family Connect to be able to help others too!
The phrase “arts industries may not pay as much as being a doctor, lawyer or engineer, but with the same amount of hard work and study, they ALWAYS pay a livable wage, offer a wider variety of opportunities and generally come packaged with FAR less stress.”. ie. with the words “generally..FAR less stress” in it, is unfortunately quite a myth.
Take a moment to LIVE the lives of artists and you will see that their days are filled with endless Auditions, rejections and constant STRESS of trying to make their song a number 1 hit, their paintings to be noticed and acknowledge by art galleries and critics alike, or their books to be a Top Seller. Angsts about struggling to pay their bills ring true from artists who have worked hard in the industry for a number of years, but were only able to achieve a mediocre success. Despair reverberates from once outrageously triumphant artists who found themselves unable to sustain their achievements, hence there is the so called “27 Club”.
Take a moment to live the lives of Trades People and you’ll find stories of Plumbers who had to work in a cramp dark space for around three to eight hours, under a house, crouching down while putting in new pipes for their clients whose toilet is all messed up due “tree roots clogged up” pipes. Take a look at the Carpenters and Bricklayers toiling under the harsh midday sun, one nail and one brick at a time, with the sweat streaming down their sunburnt skin.
Can you picture them going home at the end of a long, long tiring day being so happy that they ALWAYS get paid with a liveable wage?
Thank you, dear Artists and Trades people, for doing what you do, but any rational thinking parents would TRY to steer their children towards medicine, law and engineering, IF the kids are mentally and emotionally CAPABLE of doing well in these fields. This is in no way employing scare tactics nor propagating myths, but actually instilling realism, not just romanticism. What can a parent say to his child who came back to him at age 30, after toiling everyday, unable to see any light at the end of the tunnel, and asked despondently “ Why didn’t anyone tell me?”
It’s probably true that the makeup of University classrooms in Engineering, Medicine, Law and other Sciences these days are practically ALL Asian kids. This opportunity is available to ALL Non-Asian kids as well but they CHOSE NOT to take it up and is therefore unreasonable to be taken out as affront against Asian parents ( and kids).
Let me just start by stating that I in no way condone murdering the people in your life that make you unhappy. There are better ways to deal with it. With that said, though: parents, let your children be their own people and don’t try to make them into little copies of yourself. And if it’s more important to you to have a child who makes you look good to your friends than a child who is happy and healthy, maybe consider not having children and getting a show-quality dog instead. It will satisfy your need to train another living creature to behave exactly as you dictate 24/7 and it probably won’t snap under the pressure and kill you.
lmao this story
i don’t understand how the dad lived. those guys are terrible murderers ಠ_ಠ
wow, this was one of the saddest stories I’ve ever read. As an Asian only child with two immigrant parents, I can definitely relate to this. Growing up, my parents had very high academic expectations for me and it was even more amplified because I was an only child while many people my mom “competed with” in the trophy child competition had two or three so they had more children to produce trophies for them. Luckily, I had a rather rebellious nature and never went down the route that Jennifer did in the face of failure; I selected to face shame when shame was due so I admitted to getting low grades (as in less than A’s) every here and there and make it up when I got A’s (luckily, my elementary and middle school wasn’t particularly challenging). Reading this story now, I feel very fortunate that I chose my decision because unfortunately, Jennifer went down a dead end path that was prone to end up negatively.
Looking back, I really hated my childhood as I was not allowed to watch TV, go to friend’s house, have friends come over to my house, hang out, etc. and therefore, as a 20 year old in college living at home right now, I feel very uncultured and restricted at times. Luckily, since both my parents work 9-6 jobs, I was able to sneak in some hours of hanging out, Youtube, etc. without them knowing. My parents did not allow me to go to college far from home (for restrictive and financial reasons) so I am still coping with the challenges somewhat right now. My goal is really to try my best and not be an adult trapped in a 10 year old lifestyle but I still have yet to experience going to an actual club, getting blackout drunk, and going on vacation without my family, all of which I hope to achieve in the year to come. I just live with the understanding now that life is a battle of words and if I want something bad enough, I will spend hours, weeks, months, whatever it takes, to change my parents’ mindset on what life and success truly means.
I actually did start on my masters degree shortly after graduation my from undergrad degree. Again at my parents insistence. At that time I was working full time at a professional job and studying part time. Needless to say I burnt out fairly quit as I never really had a break from study since I started at 5 years old lol. Luckily by then my parents were a lot more open to me dropping out especially since I got myself a decent professional already and was earning more than what my parents ever could. Its not that much but compared to immigrant parents, it was a massive step up to what they were used to.
I wish you the best of luck in trying to find a good job that you enjoy. Sometimes it takes a while and it takes a few career changes to find out what you actually want. You are right in that government jobs are ideal if you want additional time to be able to persue your interests etc. You may even be able to leverage off your existing experiences to try land jobs that are completely different but still draws off your skill set. Law pays well but there is also a lot of competition. Every parent wants their kid to be a lawyer because it is prestigious and it pays well. In reality, what pays wells are jobs where there is a serious shortage and there is a massive demand for. Its never too old to make a change! As long as you are happy with what you are doing, Besides, 30 is still young. Still more than half your life to go!
As far as pop culture, I’m allright now in that I have caught up on most stuff that are post 2000s but your are right in that there are areas that I’m not as strong in and thats mainly the 90s stuff. I guess you get better the more exposed you are. I dealt with it by avoiding my weak areas. e.g In my early 20s when I’m out karaoke with friends, I’d stick with what I know and avoid the 90s songs.(Karaoke is such an asian thing to do :P) So I am still participating but just sticking with what I know an play towards it. Its not too bad now since i’ve heard enough to be able to recognise the more popular 90s songs.
For movies, I find it wasn’t too bad because you can just focus on the classics. Most of the children based ones e.g Lion King, Toy Story, etc you would have probably heard or seen anyway regardless of your culture. Its more the 90s TV series that I don’t know much and its not worth spending time catching up on those. But TV isn’t for everyone. Even the different shows are for diverse audiences and some are just not worth wasting time on. I guess now its more just focus on contemporary stuff as its not worth going back in time to watch old stuff that isn’t that relevant anymore.
I relate too. My parents were control freaks as well. They pushed us pretty hard and used to tell us “there’s no such thing as friends” that the only relationships you form are those that will help you. I didn’t date in high school or even college, which resulted in me not dating even in my early 20s. I didn’t have my first girlfriend until I was 29(later married her). I’ve never been drunk(and I don’t think that’s a bad thing) and I’m 47.
There was always grade pressure in our house too to the point where I was even punished for an entire summer for not doing well enough and for being bullied. My parents also tried pushing this image on people that I was an avid swimmer when in truth I had no interest in it, yet they insisted I do it everyday and even repeatedly enrolled me in swimming lessons hoping that constantly cramming it down my throat would make me love it.
It took me a long time to find my way and in fact, sometimes I think I’m still finding it.
Grow up.
This case didn’t make front page headlines (at the time) because she was Asian. It wouldn’t have mattered if she was white, black, hispanic, martian, you name it. SHE PAID TO HAVE HER PARENTS KILLED. It made headlines because it was a MURDER case. The ALL make the news. The discussion of Pan’s “Asian upbringing” was just an inevitable offshoot of the event, as would be her “Indian upbringing” if she were from that culture. The PLAIN FACT is, in MOST cases, immigrants place extraordinary — and extraordinarily cruel — pressures on their kids in a country where those kids see MANY of their second- and third- and fourth-generation peers NOT having to jump through the same narrow hoops to please mommy and daddy, and based on nearly EVERY COMMENT IN THIS SECTION, they resent it through and through, even when it does get them better jobs and bigger homes and fancier cars. And it stunts their emotional growth, which helps keep them in check, too, especially when it comes time for marriage (which the parents have often developed very stealthy methods of arranging so that it doesn’t LOOK like it’s being arranged, compared to their own parents, who simply provided them with a very short list of approved specimens). The whole thing is insane, frankly, and it’s created a generation of emotionally incapable, stunted young people who deserve better.
But don’t think for a second this wouldn’t have been front page news nationwide is a white kid had done the same thing as Jennifer Pan. It WOULD have. And it HAS, whenever it’s happened in the past. Jung Kim clearly only reads the stories like this that involve Asians, and thus concludes that they’re being singled out, which makes him/her seem rather shallow and foolish.
Dude, American culture (or in this case, CANADIAN, which is SIGNIFICANTLY different) is no more amoral than the culture in Hong Kong, Korea, China, or anywhere else. You think your culture is more pure because it’s homogenous? Please . . . Chinese looking down on other Chinese — i.e. status, status, status, look at our trophy kids!! — is WAY more damaging than whites or other cultures looking down on them. You’re about 20-30 years behind the times if you think otherwise.
I’m always impressed when I see Asian guys dating — and marrying! — non-Asian girls here (in Toronto). Granted, it’s not as common as Asian girls with non-Asian guys — which is practically a stereotype at this point, since many Asian girls desperately do not want to “marry their fathers” for obvious reasons — but it shows me that an increasing number of young Asian males are resisting the restrictive pathways laid down by their culture. If they want a blonde girl — and they’re sincere about it and not just collecting a trophy like their parents often want to do with them — all they have to do is ask her out. And increasingly, that’s exactly what they’re doing. Not sure by the tone of your post, but it almost seems like you’re advocating AGAINST that, no? Hopefully not, because it’s the future, whether the immigrant parents (now and in the future) want to acknowledge it or not).
Man, you NAILED this so effectively. I’d love to see Claire’s project, but hopefully she came to the conclusion that parents doing what they THINK is best for their children — especially in a country where their children will be more fully acclimatized than they EVER will be — is NOT always the right thing for their children. Asian parents feeding misinformation to their kids about “western expectations” leading to lazy, unemployable, unhappy young “westerners” needs to STOP, as does “expecting a return on their investment”. The Pan’s certainly got a nice ROI, didn’t they?
Come to Canada, respect Canadian culture, and let your children partake of it. Encourage them to be the best they can be, not the best YOU want them to be … or else. Many of them would probably follow the hoped-for path anyway, but those who don’t will be JUST as happy in their later years.
Interesting story, but you do realize you would’ve turned out OK if your parents HADN’T forced those harsh, oppressive tactics on you, right? That’s the big problem with Asian parenting in North America. This blinkered thinking that “if we don’t oppress our child, and keep him from all that ‘sinful’ western influence”, he’ll turn out to be a homeless drug addict and he won’t be there to look after us in our old age. It’s hogwash. Not every Asian kid needs or wants to be a doctor, lawyer or engineer, and I salute those who stick up for themselves and have success in the arts, or the many well-paying trades this country has to offer.
This is not about us understanding Asian cultures, though more of us DO than you might think, thanks to the world being much more interconnected now than ever before. It’s about Asian parents coming HERE but refusing to loosen the grip over their children’s destiny’s, letting them grow up Canadian in name only, surrounded by concrete evidence that NON-Tiger-style parenting is can result in a child every bit as successful and, more importantly, HAPPY as what they perceive their child will be with constant intervention, control and micromanagement. The cons of Tiger parenting, in most cases, FAR outweigh the pros, meaning Asian (and all, frankly) immigrant parents might need some additional education and lightening up when they step off the plane here for the first time. So the kid becomes a doctor, gets a big house, a fancy car and trophy status for the parents. That doesn’t automatically equate to a happy, stress-free life. It usually results in those kids oppressing their own kids, almost out of spite.
Thank you for sharing anonymousgirl, I relate to your experience and timmy’s as well (haven’t read the others yet).
If you want to travel for cheap, look into WWOOF. it involves working in exchange for a place to stay + food. Cool thing is that its available in over a hundred countries, so pick and choose your adventure. I’m around the same age as you guys and i went to japan last year for 3 weeks. I don’t speak/understand japanese but i got by fine. I enjoyed the work and it was easily the most rewarding trip I’ve made. Also, total money spent came out to be less than what i would’ve spent at home.
good luck. there are many paths to get to where you want.
Hey. I can somewhat relate… except I can’t blame my parents for everything re. dating. My parents discouraged dating as something taboo in high school – I don’t think it was ever explicitly said “you can’t date” but given my dad’s controlling ways and just how he was, I didn’t even think of it. Luckily absolutely no one at my high school interested me so it never came up anyway — I was def. a ‘late bloomer’.
That said, it wasn’t my parents’ fault after that… I just didn’t find the right person to date while in undergrad. I never had my first ‘official’ relationship until later in my 20s either!!! BUT I did date around before then, just nothing serious. Ultimately in life you just have to try to regret the least amt possible and learn from it. Some people in my family were less ‘rebellious’ than me in many ways though — don’t drink, never got drunk, never even went to a night club but are totally OK with it; some people have no interest in those things and are very confident about their life choices. Ultimately you’re the only one that has to be OK with your choices in the end so who cares what society thinks… that’s the line of thinking i”m trying to adopt more lately in any case :)
Hey, very interesting.. re. movies, I didn’t watch all of the classics though. I saw most Disney classics for sure as my mom loved those & heavily encouraged them (almost to an unhealthy extent lol.. I was still a pre-teen watching Disney stuff :P) but to this day, I haven’t seen Star Wars (no real interest in it though — but I have to force myself to watch it just for the sake of saying I have, I know :) I haven’t seen Lord of the Rings, Casablanca yet (have the movie, haven’t gotten around to seeing it) or a number of other “classics”… but BECAUSE they’re timeless & referenced so often, I feel like I should. It’s part of the human experience and pop culture… it helps aid your understanding of the world as well. I know it’s important, it’s just given my interests and time restrictions it’s difficult for me to set aside the time to watch all of these. That said, it’s not a rush right? I can watch a movie/week and finish by the end of the year if I’m lucky.. but for whatever reason, even that has been difficult to schedule in. If it’s a choice between going out & seeing friends vs. staying in and watching a movie, I’ll pick the former… so we’ll see :)
As for career change.. I think another person suggested that as well on here. Like you said, leveraging my skill set & experiences is what I think is best. At most, I’ll consider a certificate program that’s 6-12 months in length but nothing beyond that unless it’s entirely subsidized (i.e. by the government perhaps.) I just have no interest in further schooling, having spent my entire life in it — want to get into the real world & make money. I wouldn’t mind doing law for some time but not for the rest of my life. It’s just find that first step that’s the toughest.
Asian parents are notorious harsh on their children. They
consider their offspring, not as individual beings, but their personal property
for life; therefore, it is their right to do whatever measures to use the
children to satisfy their vanity, to bring them glory, and as a way of
retirement security if their children succeed. They will preach that it is the
love that drives them in pushing their kids so hard; they want their kids to be
the best as they can be, and they have sacrificed so much to come to the West
for their children, but all these are just bunches of lies, lies, and more lies,
albeit they did it unconsciously.
This tendency is deeply in Asian parents’ culture and DNA, and
widely accepted by their peers. They themselves were the victims of society in
which there were just too many people and too less opportunities for them and with
an education structure that stifles creative, emphasizes competition, and not
much cooperation. Like many former young victims of physical and sexual abuse
growing up to become the predators themselves in later life, majority of the
Asian parents inevitably and unintentionally turn out to be just like their
dads and moms, accepting the twisted and corrupted way of learning and
completely forgetting how themselves had suffered a totally wasted childhood.
For example, they would say “let’s move to America for its schools do not have
so much homework and competition, so our kids can have a happier childhood (after
being suffering themselves), but once they moved to the West, they are the ones
create the same competitive environment (so many people commented already on their
upbringing, no need to repeat here) for their children.
Asian people are also notorious gamblers. Although, they stress
hard work and honest to their children, but they like to get rich and short cut
so much, totally against their own value. We can see Atlantic City and Las Vegas
casinos put so many tour bus trips on Chinese newspapers, and major stock trade
companies also do that. But still, the children would be their best and biggest
bets in their life. Many families would spend as much as their monthly mortgage
payments for tutoring tuitions, piano lessons, ice skating, etc. Not that these
activities are not good for children (on the contrary), but it is how these
activities were being emphasized (like soccer moms are too much to be healthy
for their kids sometimes). Since the bet money were so big, the parents took it
very series and no failure should be allowed. Therefore, children in very early
age were like thoroughbred house, raising and training for only one purpose,
and the one purpose only. Unfortunately, winners are few, fewer the
triple-crowns, and most of us Asian kids grown to feel like losers deserved to
go straight to the slaughter house for we have fell the expectation of our dear
ones, and never to be hear again. Asian culture and society also tends to suppress
the majority of the subpar stories and magnify the triple-crowns, resulting
more Asian parents to put their kids into activities and fields that were
already crowded by other Asians and setup for a life time of disappointment.
Even for those succeeded, life without a healthy childhood
shows. They parents have decided for their activities, career choice, study
habit, so it is very hard for them to make decisions; not a leadership
material. They also did not play team sports and hang around various people, so
to cooperate with others in big projects and deal with bosses or subordinates
could be a problem. So the glass ceiling for Asian professionals may be the
result of their upbringing rather than a corporate structure.
Learning should be fun by itself with unduly pressure from the
parents. Emphasize on grades rather than what material has learned is to put
cart in front of the horse. Grade is to mark the progress of learning, and a
lower grade means there is a great area for improvement. Using grades or
accomplishments to measure kids at a young age will only promote those early
boomers and their parents to think too highly of themselves and later
disappointment when everybody catches up to them. Vice versa, those late
boomers would have resigned to forgo activities that they might be great if
continues.
It is very dangerous for Asian parents, like us, or any kind
ethnic parents to emphasize academic or music achievement over overall
character development of their children. Jennifer Pan’s story is a good example
of what can happen if things go wrong, and she is not alone because as many
commentators with similar background posted here. Let’s break up the chain of
this bad-parenting cycle by not doing such horrible things to our own children,
so tragedy like this can be prevented in the furture.
There’s also the case of Jean-Claude Romand an impostor who killed his family when he was about to be exposed. It was a somewhat similar case of one lie snowballing into an entire false life story which in the end inevitably came crashing down. He had pretended to his family and friends to be a medical doctor for 18 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Romand
You don’t have to be a second generation immigrant or a member of a visible minority to experience Jennifer’s parental oppression. Indeed the darkness that looms inside the home can be so dark and oppressive that children not only grow up wishing they had different parents but also carry within permanent psychological scars for the rest of their lives.
I was the first born of working class parents and was brought up in an Ontario village of scarcely more than 1000 people. My parents were poor. My father often held more than one job just to keep the family fed and sheltered. Not only could we not afford any extra- curicular activities but, living in a small village meant that there were none on offer. To take music lessons ( and one of my friends did) your parents would have to drive you out of town once a week. My parents didn’t have a car. My parenTs couldn’t afford a musical instrument. Or maybe they didn’t value that kind of education. If the local school didn’t offer it, then we wouldn’t have it. And the local school offered no choices in curriculum, zero.
My mother sewed all our clothes, including school uniforms. If we needed any kind of money for school it was a struggle to put that small amount together. We were brought up not to leave food on our plates. I don’t remember having fresh fruit and vegetables, except for what my father grew in our garden. There was so much financial pressure in our household ( and more complicated issues as well) between my parents that they were at each others’ throats almost daily. My mother beat me. My father was never home and he didn’t know. Yet my mother was always first at the PTA meetings, looking like the ever concerned and dedicated mother. It would have been difficult to convince anyone that she was beating you.
She was very manipulative and somehow made me feel that whatever was going badly in the household was my father’s fault. She was an all suffering saint who had to endure his horrible temper, his drinking spells…
As a child, it was difficult to see the light, to understand where the truth might be. What I know is that all I wanted was to be away. Away was usually no further than school where I was happy because there, my teachers noticed me. All I had to do is be smart and I was. That tricled down to my mother, at the PTA meetings, and that made her look good. However she never complimented me directly or showed me that she was happy with me. Doing well in school had nothing to do with me. It was all about her, how good a mother she was. In fact, I was never good enough, in her view. Even with straight As, even with artistic abilities that were noticed and taped into from townspeople and school… Drawing was such a useless endeavor in her view. Why couldn’t I just be like other kids?
Nobody outside could have known how poor we were because she could sew well and we were always dressed well, even when the clothes had been made out of second hand clothes.
As I grew up I was never allowed sleep overs, day trips or dating. Sex or anything related to it was never discussed. I learned from my friends. I spent most of my time crying, feeling left out of my school social groups, always stressed, feeling unwanted and unloved. My mother many times deplored the lack of birth control in her days. It was clear that the children she had were not by choice.
School was my escape. I dreamed of a professional career. My grades were good. I thought of Architecture or Law but when I began to speak about it all hell broke loose in my household. There would be no university. It was wasted on girls who were only good to marry and have children. My small universe crumbled. It shattered in such small pieces that it would never recover.
There would be no money for university for me. The most I could hope for was a $1000 scholarship that would cover a shared dorm room and tuition. It would not cover books or food. It would not cover clothing, entertainment. Still, I left that small village for university, against my parents will and under threats that I would be dis owned, and I was. My parents left me for dead. They never tried to see how I was doing. How/ if I ate or if I needed anything. Meanwhile all I could eat is Minute Rice and soya sauce, most of the time. I was starving.
I began to doubt that I would survive. Maybe my father was right: all that women were good for was to marry and have children. Maybe that was my only salvation. My focus changed. I was depressed. I started drifting and wanting to die.
I had a hard time completing my BA but I did. And then I married and had children, having fully assimilated the role I was told I would have. I think I’ve been a good mother, trying very consciously not to do to my children what was done to me. Still, have nightmares about my mother trying to kill me, 40 years after leaving home. I have been good to my parents all my life, treating them with respect but I do not visit often.
Recently, I have decided that I would sever my relationship with my mother, in the hope that it would help to also sever the bad memories and the feelings of inadequacies that have plague me all my life. I still catch myself thinking “Oh, mother wouldn’t approve.” “Mother wouldn’t think I’m doing this well enough.” And I still have nightmares about her. I realize that I am still terrified of her, even now, in my 60’s.
Thanks for sharing. I’ve often thought familial baggage goes back farther than one or two generations, it goes back literally thousands of years. This is just the first time in history we’ve had the luxury of having kids b/c we want them, enjoying them for who they are instead of what they provide for the family, and therefore every culture has its issues. You’re an amazing and strong woman to do what you’ve done, get away, educate yourself, and still honor them!, especially in spite of trying to kill you !?!!, and I’m not sure I’d have the strength or grace to continue a relationship under those circumstances.
Thank you.
Quote: a friend of Jennifer’s told me. “I honestly don’t think Jennifer is evil. This is just two people she hated.”
Um….ok so anybody dumb enough to state something this stupid when the girl had her parents MURDERED simply because she wanted their money and their home to live off of while lying her way into the life of her EX boyfriend again….anybody stupid enough to say she isnt evil but JUST hated 2 PEOPLE is a direct example and reflection of what evil looks like. Evil isnt having glowing eyes and horns out of your head with a deep voice…even a creature like that can respect its parents and live by a code of honor and substance.
Evil is when you have a good origin but corrupt yourself to pervert goodness for badness…if Lucifer is the ideal of evil even he was once the closest being to God…its however his corruption and his extreme distant fall from rightness that makes him evil. Jennifer Pan is a filthy, ugly, evil, vile human being on the inside.
She was always free to start a life with her ex boyfriend if he and she were mature enough to even do that like the adults they are…but they chose to take the lives of the people who tried so hard to raise a respectable adult…and the brother became such yet the daughter fell victim to stupid friends who live by stupid imaginations not much unlike the comment that spawned this in depth critique.
“Evil” is such an ill-defined esoteric concept. She may have Narcissistic Personality Disorder, or some mixture of Cluster B disorders. In connection with her upbringing, that would very well account for her actions.
“Evil is when you have a good origin but corrupt yourself to pervert goodness for badness” – That’s your own definition, and I for one wholeheartedly disagree because nobody “corrupts themselves” just for the hell of it.
Her parents clearly played a large part in her development and are in large part responsible for whatever disorder she may have. Just look over all the comments here from the children of Asian immigrants. The stories are far too similar to just brush this off as a completely isolated incident with no other explanation than Jennifer Pan’s “inexplicable, self-induced evilness”.
“people who tried so hard to raise a respectable adult” – You didn’t experience what it was like to be her and live with her parents, so maybe you shouldn’t overlay other peoples’ lives with your own evident parent fetish.
My opinion on this is, & it is only an opinion, that her parents, particularly Hann, are detrimental in how this played out. Putting that amount of pressure on anyone is likely to amount to a breakdown at some point & I also feel she had mental health issues to boot from psychological factors she’s faced, she has the history with self harming.
If you regimentally condition your child from an early age like that you have to be prepared to take responsibility for the actions of the person you made her to be!
Theres been a lot of classics in the 90s early 00s and I guess no one has time to watch it all. Pick and choose I guess…I think its too much of time wasted to go that far back and rewatch a lot of them. Better off spending time going forward and make sure you are up to date with the more contemporary stuff :).I guess with these movies that are based on books, if you read the book then that’s good enough. Best part about that during teens was that you could get away with reading novels and say you are studying :P
Agree that a lot of them are referenced but I guess its more a case of pick and choose just the popular ones. Also how far do you intend to go back? Casablanca is a classic and was like from the 40s! Like you said, its probably more important to choose to hang out with friends and have some human interaction rather than stick around watching movies all day!
I think at this stage of our lives, if you do study, it has to add value to what your skills are. especially in that it helps you in leveraging your skills for other jobs. You must also have the relevant working experience to back up what you do intend to study. Further studying on areas that aren’t really relevant is usually a waste of time and money. I see that a lot with people that study MBAs but don’t have the actual working experience to ever back that up. Simply graduating from it is not going to give you a management position if you have never had exposure or actual practical experience in it to begin with.Making money is important but so is your career and your happiness in doing something you enjoy. Sometimes it just takes a while to get a lucky break to be able to get into an industry. Good luck!
she could have made more than that as a pharmacist as intended- apparently, they make more than that in a year or a month or whatever. Nobody cares then if you went to a good school or had perfect grades – you’re putting pills into a bottle.
You know, I really wonder at the golden handcuffs of the pharmacy business – I overheard a stranger on the street bragging about he wouldn’t deign to work part time at a pharmacy with fewer than x number of prescriptions which might mean that they get a percentage – I was told in Canada – the pharmacist owns his part of the store and the rest of the retail stuff is someone else’s business.
And in NYC, there are law firms who specialize in charging 10k to get a pharmacy approved and pass inspection by the Pharmacy Board in Albany with one firm partner having a connection as a past employee according to multiple Asian pharmacists. Those lawyers know how to “legally open” and are full service in that they also litigate on behalf of pharmacies.
So her parents and her had their eye on the money and that indicates a higher understanding because my parents knows ZERO about the pharmacy business and how much people make but my mother is being sued by a pharmacist and that’s how I now know that you can’t “legally open” until you renovate and equip (not stock) and pass inspection with the State Pharmacy Board.
I don’t think that every pharmacist is rich but if you are in with senior citizen centers – there are guys like acupuncturists who own dozens of these upper story centers – I really dont understand how you can have a popular center if you are on the second floor with a locked front door and locked elevator albeit with intercom.
So much money and it IS the government’s fault. Meanwhile my brother who was willing to pay out of pocket was refused a chest scan for THREE YEAR cough even though he made that appointment at Chinatown Health Clinic specifically so he could get his lungs looked at – $90 later and she was so uninterested in discussing it – said she couldn’t hear anything from the stethoscope – it could be Lady Windermere, it could be lung cancer.
rich people’s problems and feeling compelled to murder
it’s not that secret if you are bunking at his PARENTS’ house – I cant get over how incredibly gross that is. And I don’t feel sorry for his parents because they did not put their foot down so they are suspicious as well.
I would never fall for her plain jane appearance – to me, a lot of plain janes are actually nastier than pretty teen mom types.
Is this type of parenting typical of Canadians?
look at what they got up to on Degrassi Junior High? or does Kevin Smith keep all the copies to himself?
it’s not like he owns the 1960s Batman rights. most of us don’t need to see Stephanie Kaye’s Tuesday Taylor outfit changes.
I hate a lot of people FOR CAUSE and I don’t go around hiring hit men even if I could afford them.
Thanks, that’s all true. I’ll try watching more ‘relevant’ movies but also those I think I’ll enjoy. There really are too many, it’s overwhelming… and yeah, the only reason I’d do any more schooling is if it’s actually required or helpful for a certain career I want to get into. Right now I’m just all over the place because I can picture myself doing a few different paths.. so until I’m 100% sure about one path (likely thru process of elimination of another path not working out) THEN I’ll go and specifically get an additional certificate or something. But right now I just want experience — as you said, employers tend to value that a lot more than school.
Well, you’re right, USA is racist, Canada is racist, and so is China or India or every other country on earth.
But that’s still wrong. We’re in a situation where the world is gradually learning that racism is wrong, but most of us cannot yet process its profound implications.
If racism is to end, USA would not be recognizable as the country it is now. That’s true for other countries as well.
That is the “immoral” aspect that I criticize in American culture. Though you could argue that racism exists in every country, that does not make it right.
I don’t think Asian girls don’t want to “marry their fathers” for “obvious reasons”. The reason is girls tend to marry more powerful males, and Asian males are not dominant in North America, on average. That does not mean I am “for” or “against” that. I’m just getting the facts straight.
As an Asian I am happy to see Asian males (or females) gaining status in America. But then again, that is irrelevant to scientific analysis.
Cheers :)
This is a truly tragic story that sends a bit of a chill down my spine. Not only because of the gruesome details, but because how much I could relate to Jennifer, and based on the number of comments we have on this thread, I would say I’m not alone here and it definitely strikes a chord with many people.
What’s chilling to me is reflecting back on my upbringing I could easily spiral down the same set of mistakes that Jennifer had made. I hid my share of report cards from my parents when I was in High School, and suffered similar emotional abuse that was the hallmark of “Asian Parenting”.
BTW, I don’t think this is just an “Asian” thing or an “immigrant” thing, and to attribute academic pressure to just tiger mom parenting is I think a bit unfair. Many kids today, regardless of immigration status or ethnicity, faces relentless peer pressure and spoon fed a steady diet of “success formula” BS from college counselors and the US News Rankings that in many cases they are driving themselves suicidal.
What is fair is that 1st and 2nd generation immigrant kids, particularly with parents from low income background, are more at risk because their parents did not have the life experience to understand what they’re going through, nor do they have the education background to actually help their kids in school. Many could only “see” the end goal – success, financial stability, etc… and blindly push their children towards that end goal, all the while not able to provide a road map or offer any “real” guidance on how to navigate towards that goal.
In short, many immigrant parents are doing their best but are flying blind. I’m 33 now and the older I get the more I realized how much my parents were literary winging things when I was a kid.
My kids will benefit tremendously in the future because they’ll have parents that has “been there and done that”. They’ll have loving parents that knows the difference between having high expectations vs. demanding high achievement. They’ll have parents that know how much the college ranking industry is really just a load of crap and will remind their kids that success in life or career is in no way determined by the college you got into, and hard work, passion, plus the all important interpersonal and communication skills is really what determine your future success.
True…Guess you can’t really know for sure if you like/dislike something until you have tried it. Sometimes it takes time to figure it all out. Try find ways to try it without having to study haha LIke you said, you don’t want to take on more student debt. Maybe join some groups or even volunteer work if it gets you in the door to try new things!! Experience really pays off in how to deal with real life situations and scenarios! Good luck
Contrary to what many here say, from all the lies she was able to pull off, her parents were not that strict and pretty much gave her reasonable leeway. It’s obvious her parents were successful and Jennifer failed to even meet even her own expectations. Hence thinking she’d kill her parents and take her parent’s wealth and achievements. Sadly she was a despicable person. We aren’t all born with our heads screwed straight.
I feel really devastated after reading this article. I mean I feel sorry for the parents but even more sorry for Jennifer. I think as second generation Asian to immigrant parents, we can all pretty much agree that we grew up in an intense and pressure filled environment – to do our parents proud, to meet their expectations, to not disappoint. I have become a high achiever under the endless scrutiny whilst growing up but under my successful “facade”, I believe I am a broken individual. As another poster has mentioned, low self esteem seems like a most certain side effect growing up with “tiger” parents. Even though I am 30 now, deep inside me, I always still seek approval from my parents before doing anything. It’s like I don’t have a mind of my own and I am just playing second fiddle to my parents. I however don’t think I hate them enough to order a hit, but I have cut myself several times in the past to channel my anger. I took up smoking (cigarettes and weed) because I felt good knowing that I’m being rebellious and I’m disobeying them.
My current thinking now is I will never have my own children because I do not want to subject another human to what I’ve been through. The way I see it, my parents are trying to live their lives through the kids, and to control every smallest possible details in their kids’ lives. I mean, what’s the point? I am sorry that Jennifer did not have a more supportive group of friends but sometimes obsession can be a scary thing. I think towards the end, she was pretty much obsessed with the thinking of living a free life – something pretty much unattainable in her situation imo.
I think the book “Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother” by Amy Chua, should be banned. This kind of parenting must not be shared or encouraged across community.
Sounds like she has Borderline Personality Disorder. It’s a personality disorder, not a psychological disorder, so she’s not psychologically or legally insane. Those with BPD have a shaky self-image, a history of unstable relationships, and they can’t stand being alone. If they aren’t the focus of someone’s attention, they feel like they don’t exist. They have a major fear of abandonment, they’re impulsive, have a tendency to be self-destructive, and often lie about their accomplishment to make themselves appear more successful and therefore, more worthy of love. It’s not unusual for them to dig themselves in deeper and deeper with lies until they end up over their heads. They also tend to be narcissist, so they don’t take the emotions of others into account. They’re very manipulative, and have difficulty taking responsibility for their actions. Unfortunately, there’s really no cure for this disorder once it become rooted in the person’s psyche.
Never push an asian to his limit..when the smile goes the knife is not far
Alas it is the Asian way – you are nothing unless you are financially successful. I am reminded regularly by my family that I don’t measure up. But it’s ok, I find my satisfaction and self worth elsewhere.
Hello..Dum asses the bitch got her mother kill and her father almost die….
This bitch didn’t even think about her brother …
She was a ungrateful little bitch…….
She didn’t had to do that to them.. She was fucking 24 yrs old…
All she had to do was go school and never fucking come back..
If they were that bad with her…
I hope she burn in hell ..
And I hope she is enjoy her new hell…
Very relevant
http://www.attn.com/stories/2582/kids-helicopter-parents-go-college?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=internal
The article says she was in Europe in 2003 on a band trip but it also says she never travelled without her family by age 22.
Hi just read the article and your comment. Stop analysing everything to death. You’ve got a life to live. It’s yours, not your parents, it’s noones but yours. What you need to do is be honest even if it means facing things that are difficult. Change your career if you want, travel if you want. So you have debts, everyone does, surely you can afford a holiday, back pack somewhere for a couple of weeks. Find out what you like and don’t like. Say to people ‘you know I’ve been through a difficult few years, I’m trying to figure myself out and it may take a while’ ☺. You don’t have to be perfect. You don’t have to prove anything. Just be yourself, warts and all. Good luck.
It says she never went on vacation without her family at age 22, not that she never travelled without her family. I can assure you her parents probably made sure she didn’t have access to any fun activities during that band trip that weren’t directly related to band.
I feel sorry for Jennifer Pan, she had a such insecure parents, that they abuse her since she was born. Her parents only see either you can my Trophy kids, or nobody. There is no hope for her being herself. They drove her to either suicide or murder. Unfortunately “mental child abuse” is not a crime, but murder “is”.
Thanks. How am I over-analyzing?? lol. I’m just telling the truth.. I can’t afford a holiday as of yet; I need to be practical and start my career and save up to go abroad. I like your suggestion of what to say to ppl though… very good advice. Thanks hun =)
There are so many other better options to solve her issues and cope with the pressures than lying and killing… Why did she choose to chronically lie to her family; why did she choose to kill the ones who loved, raised, and supported her and wanted the best of her?! She thought she was the smart one? She’s just so wrong and stupid! And now her life is gone and her family ruined! I feel sad and angry for years of the stupid things she did! Where did morality, kindness, and gratefulness go? She acted like a selfish bitch/psychopath/idiot who just threw everything away! I hope she, Daniel Wong and all the evil killers to learn the lesson and grieve for the rest of their lives.
She dealt with her very overbearing parents by making some very poor choices. After her lies were discovered, when I believe that she was 23, she should have just told her parents okay. I am not who you thought I was. She should have left. But she didn’t. Her poor choices destroyed several lives.
Thanks for the positive thoughts. I was born in the States and still live here. Would love to try living in Europe next if I can’t figure out what I want to do/if my career doesn’t take off here/if I am still single. Is that where you are located?
In terms of switching jobs, a lot of it has to do with my constant curiosity to try things. However, I am realizing that I tend to glamorize everything. I love trying new things, meeting people, and learning new skills and people’s stories. It’s almost like I keep resetting my life to live mini lives at the expense of my monetary gain, time and relationships? That is what I am anxious about and hoping things will end up for the better because what I am doing now is proving to be terrible as a career standpoint.
Recently I left the corporate world and have been working at a restaurant and am struggling to find the ambition to get back into corporate and building a career and wealth. It’s really depressing because it’s not an exciting or accomplishing thing to tell people you work as a server. But on the other hand, as anxious as it is for me right now, it is very liberating to have time and the ability to create and do things I want to do. I definitely appreciate the support of friends, family, and interaction with random people who are willing to listen. I hope in time and happiness I can meet the right people professionally and personally to start the next chapter of my life.
I have ideas of what I want to do and am being proactive on all fronts from applying as an intern in a completely different industry to networking to working on my own projects but I think you are right with “How long can I stay a float?” Any advice or relatable experiences are greatly appreciated!
This is a good point, however I am a little confused on your wording. Are you inferring that other people might be using me as a superficial relationship?
If so that is a valid point and that thought has definitely crossed my mind. My conclusion is that any relationship is a transaction, what value can you add to my life? How transparent or how much you can help people will only be evaluated on how much you trust the other person. My intentions are never to use people but I know that there are less empathetic people out there which is why I think people need to have their guards up also. My problem is that I am easy to get a long with but tough to put my guard down. This leads to me not being able to trust very many people.
Awesome, thanks for the tip! I am thinking about taking a trip to Central America later this year. It will be a short trip as well probably shorter than yours since money is tight right now. Hoping I will gain a lot of inspiration. Was it more of a vacation for you like touristy stuff?
Thanks for sharing your story and happy to hear you found a lasting relationship on your first try! That makes me happy to hear. Never being drunk is nothing to be ashamed about and you are probably better off for it and if I could have one girlfriend and marry her that would be ideal. Aside from career, I am definitely anxious about finding a relationship as well, many of my friends were in long term relationships that did not work out but hold steady jobs, and the other half of my friends are either moving in with each other or getting married and here I am single and without a steady career path. It’s definitely tough when comparing to others but I am hoping that similar to your story, in time I will meet the right people. Do you mind sharing more about the social pressures you felt in your twenties with relationships, friends, and how you met your wife? Was it a friend, a recommendation, or a stranger?
Oh yaaaawwwwnn. Leave the friggin’ religious B.S. out of this. Bad enough many immigrant parents force THAT down their kids’ throats as a means of control, too. Another way of keeping them tied down to the culture, and around “their own kind” when it comes time for mom and dad to arrange their marriages without making it look like they’re arranging their marriages.
Well said. ‘Raheem Washington’ clearly doesn’t see the bigger issue here.
You raise an interesting point, about immigrant parents coming to Canada because the schools are less intense and competitive than in their home countries, then consciously creating the EXACT SAME ENVIRONMENT OF INTENSE COMPETITION that damaged them (or their kids) back home in the first place. Why? Because of all the OTHER Asian kids who now represent a threat, both perceived or real. Worse, the Chinese in particular are the most egregious in this regard, forcing their kids into “Saturday Schools” all over the GTA (but really concentrated in Markham/Richmond Hill/East North York/Scarborough) and further sending them for additional classes AFTER a full day in school. I’m sure the kids are often brainwashed enough to think it’s normal, especially if their only frame of reference is OTHER Chinese kids, which is yet another reason why Chinese/Asian parents prefer their children not spend to much time with non-Asian kids lest they discover there’s a whole other way of being a young person in Canada.
definitely not a typical touristy vacation. i stayed in the country side outside kyoto on a farm/cafe/traditional japanese carpentry shop (all owned by one guy). i did demo work and roofing the first week, built a traditional charcoal kiln, and chopped a lot of wood in between. i came back ripped.
not all wwoof locations are farms, nor do they all require manual labor.
i’ve even met a couple who went wwoofing in northern california to simply house sit and do basic chores for the host while he was out travelling.
i’m sure it depends on the host, but money was not really a limiting factor for me once i got there. i was literally saving money by staying there longer. All in all, i put in a lot of work but i also got that much more out of my it.. including a mini keg and a job offer.
i ended up getting to do the touristy stuff anyway tho. i became friends with the carpenter apprentices, i was living/working with, and the host allowed them to show me around kyoto and its neighboring cities on the weekends.
what are you even talking about?
Wow. It sounds like this article was the therapy that you never had. I hope that it was a catharsis for you
The money was 500k for getting away with murder but she would have made more as a pharmacist as she and her family originally intended for her. The golden handcuffs of the allegedly lucrative profession means capable brains are steered away from scientific research.
You have to be a psychopath to see this as a viable solution to the problems she was facing. As overwhelmed as she might have been at the idea of her parents finding out she had lied and wasnt as academically gifted as they thought or wished, yet could accept committing such horrific acts, causing immeasurable suffering to her family, all to prevent their finding out,.,, shows there’s a lot more wrong going on in this girl’s head than the pressures (even if they were inordinate) her parents put on her to succeed.
What do you know of being in her situation? Have you read any of the comments here of Asians who actually know what they’re talking about?
As I was reading this, I started to relate over so many things that happened in my past. I was thrown overseas by my dad when I was an 8 years old because my cousins who were of the same age going too (being competitive). Everytime there’s a phone call from them, the ones I remember most, other than “study hard” and “do well in school” was “I have spent lots of money sending you overseas and so you have to do well.” During high school was when I started flunking. I just didn’t want to study because I don’t see the benefit for myself. When I first got my bad results, I showed it to my parents, and the immediate response was, “look at your cousins! They are getting good grades! Why can’t you be like them?”
At the end of high school, I was not able to get into a college that’s around my area. Frustrated, my dad immediately pulled me back and sent me to another country that would accept me in their pre-university programme. I managed to get into a degree course, barely scraping through. After the first two years of struggling and failing different subjects, I finally dropped out of university. I then spent the next three years in my life just hovering around, overstaying my visa and at the same time, running a scam telling my parents that I am doing well and I have been passing my subjects, and doctoring my results.
At the same time, I fell into depression. I had suicidal thoughts, and cried myself to sleep every other night. What was different from Jennifer was that, I placed all the blame on myself. I had thoughts that said “You stupid, why did you lie? Now you’re worse off. You should just die.” and “If you didn’t exist your parents will be better off and not have to spend so much money on you!”
One thing that kept me from going was, really, Jesus. Call it corny or whatever you want. It was the only thing that I did besides bumming around at home. I even ran the same scam that I had to my church friends. Eventually, I had friends from the church who didn’t care about what I did, my past, and continued to encourage me unknowingly. One of my friends was struggling as well, but that’s another story for another time. As I watch her find her strength in Jesus to pick herself up, I started thinking, “maybe I can try again.”
For the first time in the longest time, I wanted to do something. Not because its what my parents want, or what my cousins are chasing after. It was my own idea, my own dream to pursue. I could feel even that Jesus loves me and all my past failure didn’t matter to a God that is so perfect.
The final hit on the nail was when one day, we had a sermon about forgiveness. When they started praying for people with forgiveness, I couldn’t find anything to forgive. Suddenly I felt a prompting in my heart saying “you need to forgive your father.” I just totally crumbled, knelt down on the cold concrete floor and started sobbing into the church sofa. I finally stopped crying and say, “Jesus, I forgive my father.” and the heaviness was gone.
The lie, however, didn’t stop. I was scared to reveal everything. However one day, I excitedly invited my parents (whom hadn’t seen me in years) to where I was living. This led to them finding out that I didn’t graduate when they tried to apply for a visa, as the system states that I am illegaly staying and their visa will not be approved if I do not come forward and confess.
Now, I have started pursuing that dream and idea that I had on my own. Make no mistake, the journey from them finding out till where I am now has neither been easy nor smooth sailing. My dad? He has not changed much. He is still the same stubborn, money focused person, but I can see him now that he did it because he came from a poor background, and wanted the best for us. We do fight, and my parents and I sometimes will have emotional breakdowns. But do I love them? Yes, very much so. Not only because they accepted me despite me doing a long running scam to them, but because I am their son, and for good or for bad I still love them, and because Jesus loves me.
Life is a 2 way street. Some of these Asian parents don’t understand that.
They just expect loot to come out, even if they don’t put anything in (per say motivation, acceptance of one’s limits, family time).
I came here at class 8 from Asia and my parents expect good grades from me. But they realize that I’m human too, They don’t say that their ancestors have been ashamed at the sight of a bad grade. They tell me “no worries” and “try better”…
That is true parenting: not treating your son/daughter like an ATM machine.
I understand the environment that jennifer was living in. I am an asian with a typical asian parents. My father was ex-military…very strict and my mother ever intruding. Since my mother was a non working mother, i became somewhat of an obession and my personal life became a microscope specimen for her. My friends judged harshly by my opinionated mother My father was fond of mathematics and i was a very good student early in childhood at least till 8th grade. The problem however was that my father was a bad teacher. Everyday he used to tutor me and if i got stuck he used to slap me around( Im not an immigrant) and that was my daily routine. Every day my target was not to get beaten up.
However my father’s behaviour started to tell on my performance. My grades fell or rather plummeted in most subjects. I was an A grade student with a keen interest in mathematics, but since my father was strictest in maths it is that subject i fell behind the most in getting Ds and Es in it and other subjects doing no better in.I then started lying to my parents about my grades.This had impacts on my social life as if i brought friends home my parents would interview them about my school performance. Not only did they seem obsessive to my friends but I had fears of my true grades coming out as well. So i made weak excuses of why i do not bring my friends to my place to both my friends and my parents. Eventually i stopped making friends at all. I started hiding dates of parent teacher meetings, hid results, used elaborate reverse psychology methodologies and emotional blackmail to prevent my parents from finding out what was going on in school. Since i live in a moderate to strict muslim home in a muslim country where religious perception is skewed and interpreted solely for political gains or to brand someone evil, I had to hide all my relationships from my parents. Growing up my generation was far more moderate and understanding thanks to globalization of information. And if my parents did find out i was close to a girl, all my problems including grades was because i was sinning by consorting with the opposite gender.
Now this is a positive feedback loop. So much of your concentration is wasted on fear of getting caught and to plan rigorously of stopping your parents from finding out the truth that your studies start to suffer. The more it suffers the more you get fearful of getting caught. it was around 3rd year O levels that i started to have keen interest in biology…most probably because my father, a director in a multinational company, had no clue about it. So i could excel in it without being judged
Even then there were hurdles, in grade 12 my father who had an idea of some of my poor performances told me that i do not have what it takes to become a doctor. He told the school to change my premed subjects to business subjects. I was torn apart by this. I had to write a letter to the school pretending to be my father to change my subjects back to premedical subjects and forged my father’s signature at the bottom of the letter.
When the monthly fee of the school came out what struck my father was “lab charges”. Since there are no labs in accounts of business management i was caught. What followed was a very hard scolding but the good sense prevailed in him and he didnt change the subjects back.
In medical school i was a good student but the pestering did not stop. If i score 46/50 in a test my parents would be annoyed and say why did you get the 4 questions wrong, did you not study properly, were you distracted, are your friends drug addicts (They never were), maybe you should get married etc. Anyways i graduated, became a doctor just last year and thankfully for the first time in a long time i am not scared or lying through my teeth.
The point is the pressure on asian children on education is tremendous. You cannot fail, you cannot even falter from an A grade. Most parents in my country are so focused on education that character building is completely ignored Our childhoods give us nightmares and we have but a few fleeting moments in that period here and there that would bring a smile to our faces. I know of a top medical student who had topped since his 1st grade, in 3rd year medical school he got 2nd position and he committed suicide. Since character building is ignored and getting to the top no matter what is instilled in us, our society churns out people who would resort to anything to get on top. They cheat, lie, backbite about other students to teachers that they are trashing them to get competition out of favor. Their behavior is appalling, they are rude and think of no one but themselves. Some are seriously incapable of seeing situations in the light of another person’s perspective. A society where people are ok with doing terrible deeds to one another as long as it doesnt happen to them.
Sometimes in all this social chaos someone believes in doing something so evil and perverse that it shakes us all. But to that person it all seems justified. Jennifer was a girl who just couldnt take it anymore. She cracked under the pressure of her parents’ constant expectation and did something unthinkable. I am not saying what she did was right, it was most definitely wrong, but her parents had a big part in how things played out eventually.Travelling to various countries and seeing children and social structures of various nations, i had come to a conclusion that asian parents are simply incapable of raising a child properly.
There are no “winners” in this story. Truth is, Asian parents are way too over baring on their kids. I used to go to High School with a very smart Chinese kid. I later learned that during his first year of University he had a nervous breakdown…eventually he got his degree and graduated but it was life the pressure of his parents hit him like a ton of bricks.
I noticed your comments. Can you contact me regarding this story? I am working on one of my own. Email me at djxylophone@hotmail.com
Hey man, I’m here reading all this and then see a message from you. Seem like a real cool dude. I’m writing something on her at the moment, trying to tell as much of the real story as possible. I see you shunned a request before, but I would actually really like to talk to you. Hope you reach out. djxylophone@hotmail.com
Oh and p.s. no names required if you so desire….
Oh and no names are required should you wish..:)
You know nothing. Seriously.
Without providing any information in your comment expressing contempt for my previous comment in no way justifies your profession of disdain.
I am showing disdain because your comments are full of over-imaginative drivel and delusional rants that are being presented as truth.
No, pharmacists don’t make 500K and yes, you know nothing.
then how does a pharmacy claim in a lawsuit that they lost five million dollars by not opening – there has to be some kind of public database of how much these guys make if their inventory is regulated and they are usually paid by insurers and the government and the prescriptions are matched to doctors who prescribed them.
can an acupuncturist with many senior centers prescribe medicine and medical supplies like wheelchairs (I heard there is more money in supplies)?
is there a link between senior center members and prescriptions going to particular pharmacies?
Holy what on earth are you going on about?? You do realise that pharmacists do not own the pharmacies they work in, right? There are the very rare exceptions that have been all but eliminated thanks to giant corporations like sdm.
Your comments show a clear personal bias (pill counters, drivel about acupuncturists and senior centres etc), and a serious lack of knowledge about the profession. It makes no sense and distracts from this very tragic story, so perhaps you should just shut it.
what facts support your claim that pharmacists dont own a share of the stores they run or agree to lend their name to as registered pharmacist? I was told by a St Johns alumnus that she was part of a sisterhood of St John pharmacists who all chipped in to open new stores while keeping their day jobs and switching their schedules around – I called a stranger I found on the internet when I was doing research and he told me that the industry has changed to a huge clique involving doctors and senior centers but more importantly parents with medical buildings in Brooklyn who give a really cheap rent to doctors so the prescriptions will got to where the doctor wants it and that the new computerized system would make it worse because the prescriptions would show up at the preferrred pharmacist because doctors are not allowed to fill prescriptions.
He might be wrong but that’s all I know – plus I was told by the Pharmacy Board that you have to renovate to open – you have to renovate and EQUIP but not stock and pass physical inspection and those requirements for renovation include the bathroom so the C of O amendment requirements would be satisfied just from having to pass the inspection = now IF this is standard policy, why would someone bother to forum shop?
What’s going on in Nassau County?
The older I get, the more I believe that high pressure, high achievement parenting is counterproductive. Not only does it breed resentment (witness the many commenters here), but I don’t see that it leads to success. In my professional life, over and over again, the people I see who succeed in an endeavor have cultivated a passion for their work that they have woven into their identity. They have an incredibly high amount of self-esteem and self-worth, which they’ve developed because they were given freedom in their youth, which they used to discover who they were and what they could do with their lives.
Hey man, not sure why you didn’t get back to me. Just trying to tell the most accurate story possible. I’m including your comments, but would rather get it from the horses mouth. As I said no names. Don’t want to hassle you man, just want to let you know why I’m doing this. It’s not for gossip purposes, it’s to get to the facts. Anyways, hope you get in touch dude. Cheers.
It’s really wonderful that you are able to offer a safe place to your child’s best friend once in awhile. And actually, just having someone who treats the child normally can really help. I have read and known people who were raised by abusive parents, but they say they were emotionally ‘saved’ by an adult who just allowed the child to be a child, and treated them with kindness and respect.
That last part – about having a safe home if needed – if you could tell the child that when she turns 18, I bet she would take you up on it. That would allow her a way to escape the cycle of shame, but give her a safe place where she can learn the life skills she needs to start her life.
Please why everyone think it was her parent’s fault?
Frankly speaking I wish I have a father like Jennifer Pan, it shows that her father care about her. Unlike my father, he don’t even know me.
I need to clarify that according to all the materials I read & watched from TV show -Snapped, first, Jennifer’s parent did gave her choice after they know all her lied, her parents did not lock her up, she was a adult & could have just walk away.
Secondly, since her choice to continue to live under her parent’s roof, why there is no reason that she shouldn’t follow her parent’s rule?
Dear anonymousgirl, the real “party girl” don’t have a chance to go law school, b/c their GPA is just good enough to graduated. Perhaps you may ask your co-workers define what is a “party girl”.