One more reason Toronto’s condo market is crazier than Vancouver’s

21 thoughts on “One more reason Toronto’s condo market is crazier than Vancouver’s”

1. I pay under 500/month. If you think maintenance fees go for things like bowling alleys (which my building thankfully doesn’t have) you’re dead wrong.

2. I live in a newer (<5 years) building with no amenities but a small gym with two treadmills and some weights. My unit is 830sq ft and my maintenance is $640.00 a month. Don't let them tell you that bowling alleys or swimming pools drive up the price, that's also bull.

3. Most maintenance fees include the heating of the apartment and therefore because of the difference in climate it doesn’t cost as much in Vancouver. This was completely missed in this article.

4. Most maintenance fees DO NOT include heating of the apartment actually. ^

   I’ve owned 3 condos, all with maintenance over $450 a month and not one of them included heat within the maintenance fee.

5. I’ve studied the Toronto condo market over the past 7 years, and I find that the oldest condo buildings in the city (ones built around 1992 or earlier) draw the most maintenance (often $700 or more per month on average), but that’s for a building that’s at least 20 years old, so it’s not that surprising.

   What surprises me is that newer condos (ones built in the last 0-5 years) have maintenance fees that are already creeping up to $500/month (on average), including a unit in North York where I once lived but (luckily) sold shortly after it was registered. When it was pre-construction in 2005, my unit’s maintenance fees were estimated by the builder to be around $340/month, but when it was finally registered in 2008, it ended up being closer to $400. Recently I looked at an equal unit in the building to mine, and fees were over $700! On a 5 year old building!

   I can only attribute this to the builder cutting corners during construction, and the building’s owners having to pay for that later.

6. Condo fees vary considerably based on amenities, parking spots, and age of the building. Fees are lower on new buildings but often artificially so and increase after only a few years. For our 20-year-old small condo we pay about $300 per month, but this includes heating in winter, A/C in summer, water, electricity, 24-hour on site security, and regular renovation of shared areas like the lobby, hallways, courtyard, elevators, etc. Amenities like the weight room and party room are basic and rarely used, frankly. I think it’s a good deal. Almost all the increases in recent years have been the result of energy costs.

7. Could you hint at where this building is? I want to live there ;)

8. $300 per month is very atypical, especially for a unit that old. Maybe your square footage is really tiny, or maybe you’re incredibly lucky!

9. I’ve lived in my older condo(built in the 70’s as an office building but made into condo’s in the late 90’s), for the past 5.5 years and love it. However, condo fees are creeping up steadily (I currently pay $350 for about 700 sq ft) and last year I had to pay a whopping $1,800 “special fee” for low reserve fund, going years back before I moved in. Parking, building maintenance & water is included – plus a small workout room – but that’s it.

10. Welcome to Toronto, Peopale!!! Its high but not high as NYC where its just plain crazy for only a doorman!! But newer condos do not inlcude the heat/hydro at all.Wont brag about my unit but I can tell you, it beats livingin a house, paying a higher property tax bills in a house in most cases and not having to shovel the snow. So, like most torontonians do is bitch about everything under the cloud, get over it and love or list ya condo!!!!

11. If you are thinking of buying a condo and are worried about maintenance fees going up: Get to know who the condominiums Board of Directors are and what their motivation is. Often times when people move into a condo they want to get involved so they become a member of the board. They must be elected and generally unless otherwise stated in the condo bylaws they must serve for 3 years. I find that a lot of these directors don’t realize the volume of work that is required and can’t wait to get off the board at the end of their term. This tends to leave boards filled with members that are perhaps not the most qualified to help manage the buildings finances or worse yet have some sort of ulterior motives that drive them to sit on the board – we all know the type who want to whine and moan about every non-issue and waste everyones time. If a condominium has a Board of Directors that have been in place for a while and genuinley care about the building and its residents and don’t mind the work load, the maintenance fees tend to be lower and dollars tend to get stretched further – So, before you buy, do some research on the Board and it may save you some bucks in the long run..

12. I guess I am very lucky. My condo is 665 sq ft + locker (no parking) and I pay $352 which includes ALL utilities. One year, our condo fees actually went down because we are so well managed and well funded. We have a gorgeous rooftop patio with a bbq (than people hardly use), a small gym and No other expensive amenities. Best building in the city…and NO I am not telling you where it is.

13. ^^ i’m guesssingggg… in the middle of nowhere anyone would actually want to live

14. We sold our unit in the Mimico area almost 6 years ago, but we were paying just over $500émonth in condo fees before we moved out (1200 sq. ft. unit, plus parking and locker). That wouldn’t have been so bad if we weren’t also paying almost $2300/year in property taxes (almost an extra $200/month) PLUS our mortgage payments. Ridiculous! We ended up selling that place and buying a brand new 1800 sq. ft. house in the same neighbourhood. We pay almost the same amount in property taxes (unbelievable, considering we now have a bigger place AND a yard, but true) and the money that used to go towards condo fees now goes towards our mortgage.

15. Firstly, Canadian apartment/condo/housing market is over priced especially in big cities and in some cases in prairies too

    Secondly, housing prices should reflect the growth rate in economy which is obviously absent in Canada. Canadian GDP growth is rate is so low (.5 to 2.5%) it just does not add up, when we look at the housing market. It shows that the prices are being artificially inflated by the builders. In 2011, Singapore growth rate was 14%.

    Singaporeans can increase their apartment price, given their small size and supply not Canada where apartments are over supplied and Canadians can’t even sell their homes and apartments for the so called artificially inflated market price.In other words, apartments/houses in Canada are not supposed to appreciate given the huge area and oversupply of apartments. Who would buy a resale leaking glass apartment when new ones are available.

    Thirdly who is buying these apartments, certainly not by many living in Canada who are over taxed in every province. Foreign buyers from China, Hongkong and India and bunch of other Asian powerhouse economies do it and leave it for rent.

    Finally, the horrible condo fee. It is worse than getting taxed at 33%. US housing market follows its economy and unemployment rate, unlike Canada because, Canadian economy never took off in the first place to fall flat. Who will be the losers in all this mess. Poor Citizens of Canada who not only freeze their backs but also end up freezing their life savings

16. New Condominium units in Toronto have shrunk in size overall; they’ve gone down by 100 sq ft over the last 5 years on average. We will have to see the impact in the rental market when all the towers now under construction in Toronto hit the market.
    The average size of a new condominium unit in Toronto is 650 sq ft and based on average price, it will cost about $330,000. With rental rates on average $2.20 /sq ft, investors may expect monthly rent about $1,450.
    But will that rent cover the costs for the investor? With 20% down, a $264,000 mortgage at 3% amortized over 25 years, the principal and interest costs would be close to $1,250/month. Monthly condominium fees are about $0.50/sq ft per month on average and property taxes are about 1% of home value. When utilities are added the cash flow becomes negative.
    The condominium market in Toronto, the biggest of its kind in North America for that class of housing, is largely based on a capital appreciation. Most investors finance their condominium units knowing that they will be unable to carry them on a cash-flow positive basis based on present rental rates. The condominium game continues to be about capital appreciation and very small return would shrink the pool of investors.

17. A bit late to this conversation.

    Kids.

    Maintenance fees include a contribution to the Reserve Fund, the little thing on new buildings that will save your bacon ten, twenty, thirty years out, when the roof goes, the halls need new paper and carpets. If you’re not properly funded, you’ll get surprise “special assessments”. If you’re looking at buying in a super-cheap-fee place, look closer. Something is wrong. You may not pay now, but you WILL pay later.

    Instead of complaining about the fees, get on the board, learn what’s what. Condo/co-op living is not a joke, but it can be a great option, if you go in with eyes open.

18. $2.20 psf is too low. I have a Jr. 2br 630 sqft unit that rents for an easy $1700 per month. 20% was put down 1.5 years ago. Rent with parking $1800. Total monthly carrying cost $1700.33.

19. Shovel snow? These days Toronto only gets 5 to 7 days of heavy snowfall in a winter tops. And the exercise is good for you.

20. I live in an old townhouse in Etobicoke where maintenenace fee is hiked every year, this year alone they raised it to 730+, a rise of almost 13% ! Condo is maintained by York Condo. Corporation(YCC 340), a poorly managed organization with history of making money out of maintenance fee. Although newer condo have less maintenance fee but they are definitely going to raise it once fully occupied.

21. If you check out NXT building in Etobicoke you will find an astonishing $1350 maintanence tag for a 2+1 900sqf unit and if you look at the old Heath street complex it would be closer to $1600.
    WHY would anyone buy a property that requires a nice rent payment in addition to your mortgage.

Comments are closed.