agnostic May 10, 2008 at 6:37 p.m.

jade_lee:

I wonder if you can quote one single example of a "truth" that Mark Steyn is trying to sell which would be denounced by our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

jade_lee May 10, 2008 at 8:38 p.m.

His truth that white people breeding more is some sort of panacea for changing the minds of radical muslims with respect to their hate by perhaps not making room for them in white societies?
Violation: against race, religion and is promoting ideas that have been condemned my entire life here in Canada in my society.

Religious radicals are born right here in Canada and they come in all forms and in all the religious social movements found here.

As I recall we once culled the Japanese Canadians into camps at war time and thought we were doing the right thing, you should review our reasoning process back then, we weren't doing the right thing and we tried to atone for it in recent history.

Mark Steyn is a regressive thinker who refuses to let go of a reasoning that has long been discredited with respect to the current war in iraq, with respect to CB and with respect to how we treat others who just happen to be of the same race, religion, gender, sexuality or disability as a current enemy, we should not provoke the creation of new ones as he is doing with his thoughtlessness in the form of a book all the while accepting the "freedom" part of the charter but only in terms of professional freedom and be damned the rights of others he is violating!

jade_lee May 10, 2008 at 8:39 p.m.

Would a direct quote make what I have stated more valid in you mind?

jade_lee May 10, 2008 at 8:55 p.m.

Where did all the other comments go?

Casey May 10, 2008 at 9:09 p.m.

jade_lee May 10, 2008 at 8:38 p.m.

Eloquent, impassioned and downright correct. Great response, jade_lee. Kudos...:-).

BigDuke6 May 10, 2008 at 9:34 p.m.

"His truth that white people breeding more is some sort of panacea for changing the minds of radical muslims with respect to their hate by perhaps not making room for them in white societies?"

What book or column was this from?

jade_lee May 10, 2008 at 10:27 p.m.

It's my opinion about what Steyn is communicating based on what he writes. I am not alone in that opinion either.

jade_lee May 10, 2008 at 11:05 p.m.

>>By "demographic," I mean the Muslim world's high birth rate, which by mid-century will give tiny Yemen a higher population than vast empty Russia. By "economic," I mean the perfect storm the Europeans will face within this decade, because their lavish welfare states are unsustainable on their post-Christian birth rates. By "geopolitical," I mean that, if you think the United Nations and other international organizations are antipathetic to America now, wait a few years and see what kind of support you get from a semi-Islamified Europe.<< Steyn strangely sounds racist to me as he decides islam is the enemy when in fact radicals in the islamic world as well as non radicals both in Iraq and Afghanistan are fighting the Americans who invaded Iraq and Nato Forces who are trying but not doing very well in bringing their brand of law to afghanistan. Read between the lines here...........this does not require rocket science to see that he is promoting both hate and fear of innocent people he labels as enemies for being muslim, I wonder what steyn thinks of the chinese? Is he saying that white christians will not be powerful in the future? The more I read Steyn the more I realize that he plays checkers with the facts to find solutions to our current problems with enemies who might harm us where our values here in North American requires us to play chess.

agnostic May 10, 2008 at 11:58 p.m.

What exactly in the given quote would be denounced by our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?
What does Islam have to do with a race? And which one?

Btw - those who want to find something between the lines usually succeed, no matter what the lines say themselves.
For example, if I wanted, I could read between your lines that you are actually a Mark Steyn supporter writing the way you do in an attempt to make his adversaries look not particularly coherent.

jade_lee May 11, 2008 at 12:45 a.m.

If Steyn was addressing overpopulation why is he singling out muslims? He has to understand that for every enemy he identifies as a radical Muslim filled to the brim with hate, there are far more significant numbers of Muslims who want to live in peace with others around the world and his liberty of stretching the truth makes life for these individual Muslims less civil in an world at war for reasons nobody quite understands least of all Steyn himself.
What you find to be incoherent is my personal opinion because it obviously clashes with yours. I Just don't see how you could possibly see any value in what Steyn is promoting in his writings other than they support an ideology that is on it's way out and will most definitely be discredited when the troops eventually pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan and leave behind quite the mess. Think what wish but why so personal?

jade_lee May 11, 2008 at 1:03 a.m.

Racism like all other forms of hate often hides it's ugly head. it has become subversive as we in the west become more sophisticated.
There are several different races of people who are practicing Muslims, Steyn apparently fears them all in our future. He doesn't appear to sympathize at all with the Muslim's fate around the globe but instead appears suspiciously paranoid about them, which is indeed an indication that he is promoting something that is not useful and most likely very harmful in print, hate at the very least.

jade_lee May 11, 2008 at 1:15 a.m.

BTW back at you, is it important to you that you use the word agnostic to identify yourself here? Why did you pick that particular avatar?

leaf May 11, 2008 at 1:19 a.m.

[This comment has been removed.]

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 1:27 a.m.

Contact leaf@whitewhine.com for more info about who are the enemies of civilization. She'll tell you who are the current "Huns at the gate". Used to be Communists, now it's Muslims apparently.

leaf May 11, 2008 at 2:01 a.m.

what are you ranting about blondie?
are you and the jewish granny writing in code now?

leaf May 11, 2008 at 2:03 a.m.

to the freaky creep: i don't read your mails now. i just block the address. so far: 28 blocked.

28 custom made addies just for moi. am i worth it or what?!!!

Fintan May 11, 2008 at 2:17 a.m.

Excellent posts, Jade-Lee and Barbara in BC.

The Schweyn is just a crank who has found a haven in the cancerous neocon body that thrives in especially the USA, but has metastased into many other parts of the world as well. His Lardship, who has been in the Federal institution for the ethically and morally challenged for soissant neuf days now, with 1,731 to go, deserves special suffering for having promoted the career of the Schweyn, who might otherwise be driving around in a pickup truck in Redneckville, Alabama and wearing a white sheet.

The Schweyn's reasoning is ultra-alarmist and hysterical. He really believes that Muslims will be a majority of the European population by 2025 or something, but provides no figures to support it. And why doesn't he get the leg over his own missus a bit more? He only has three kids. I'm surprised they haven't drummed him out of the White Power Movement for that inadequacy. LOL

My son the mathematician reckons it might just be possible for Muslims to be in a majority in Europe by 2025 if Muslim immigration quadruples from its present level over the next three years and remains that high, every Muslim woman has 18 children and white emigration to places like Australia and Canada quintuples.

I'm not worried about it, neither is my son, and we live here. The Schweyn, whose hate-filled demagogic columns have been cancelled by one publication after another here is just singing, admittedly lucratively, for his supper. He is giving his neocon, redneck, racist readers exactly what he knows they want.

To quote Oscar Wilde, he is "casting false pearls before real swine."

Fintan May 11, 2008 at 2:32 a.m.

There's really nothing very new about the Schweyn's vision of the future of (white, non-Muslim) women in Canada.

Others had similar ideas at least eight decades ago

"The Nazis, however, had very old fashioned views of women’s place in society. They emphasised the differences between men and women and believed that nature had created each for different purposes. They believed that men should be the breadwinners and earn a living to support their families. Men were also to be responsible for decision making and providing protection, e.g. during times of war. They believed women’s role in life should be to bear many children and ensure the domestic comfort of their families, e.g. cooking and cleaning. Women were expected to be dependent on men both financially and emotionally, and to obey their husbands. Women should not be involved in politics, the Nazis believed. They soon took away women’s right to vote. The Nazis also felt it was wrong for women to enter paid employment for two main reasons. Firstly, this would mean neglecting their family duties. Secondly, every woman in employment was seen as taking a job from a man.

"The Nazis directed a large volume of propaganda at women to encourage them to lead the kind of lives the Nazis approved of. They often used the propaganda slogan ‘Kinder, Kirche, Kueche’ to sum up what they thought a woman’s role was. Directly translated this means ‘Children, Church and Cooking’.

"To the Nazis the ideal physical appearance of a woman was blonde, blue eyed and sturdily built. She was expected to have broad hips for child bearing, and to have no interest in such things as fashion, make up or slimming."

See more here:

http://www.google.fi/search?hl=fi&q=...

Hitler is gone, but his spirit lives on in the likes of the Schweyn.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose

leaf May 11, 2008 at 2:48 a.m.

[This comment has been removed.]

Fintan May 11, 2008 at 2:59 a.m.

On, off, on off:

Looks like the story about Schloß Blackula South being on the market has now been denied:

http://www.palmbeachdailynews.com/biz/co...

But why does he want to keep it? He must still be in denial. Apart from the fact that maintaining such a huge home for just one old woman and a dog costs an arm and a leg, and the money should properly be paid back to those from whose pockets it came, he will never see it again.

He probably doesn't admit it even to himself, but his appeal will fail, he will serve his time up to around 2013 and then be deported to the UK.

Maybe they're hoping property prices will recover over the next five years.

LOL

leaf May 11, 2008 at 4:24 a.m.

who's working the board in the middle of the night?
was fickton given the key on account he's pallsy with top dog?

one thing's for sure. he doesn't like me posting his "spare" phone # on the blog.

do i care? lol

leaf May 11, 2008 at 4:27 a.m.

[This comment has been removed.]

leaf May 11, 2008 at 4:29 a.m.

maybe they're just cleansing the evidence.
cheers TL!

leaf May 11, 2008 at 4:46 a.m.

why do you feel a sense of failure fickton?

"I feel a sense of failure because no one has agreed to boldly go where no one else has gone and explore the boundless galaxies of His Lardship's and Morticia's sex life."

(!!!)

leaf May 11, 2008 at 4:55 a.m.

how would you describe your wife fickton?

"I wouldn't call her a whore, because a whore often gives value for money."

if you weren't so cheap...

leaf May 11, 2008 at 5:03 a.m.

and how would you describe your son?

"The arsehole is different, but the doo-doo is the same."

like father like son, no?

Fintan May 11, 2008 at 6:44 a.m.

Oops, looks like I've really done it now and upset Morticia so much she stays up until at least 5 a.m. and, even better, completely loses it. Six fits of hysteria in a row!

All grist to my mill.

ROFL

Dorothy17 May 11, 2008 at 7:19 a.m.

Very amusing, but not very accurate. There were many women at Steyn's talk (for all I know we were half the audience). I noticed an East Asian woman and the guy standing in front of me looked rather Middle Eastern. A member of the Muslim Council of Canadians was there, too. A couple beside me discussed family in Israel.

Whereas Mark did encourage a "natalist" policy for Canada (which means, you know, Canadians having and raising children--ooh, scary), he was asked by Heather Reisman what he would propose if he were the head of the EU or of Britain. The natalist and telescoping of education discussion was in response to that question. "Telescoping of education" meant people not spending as many years as they can in university.

At no time did anyone suggest that "Canadian" meant "white people." I didn't hear a racist word at Indigo. Steyn's concerns were with cultural suicide, with repressive Islam-inspired regimes and how Islamism threatens Western freedoms. He IS pro-immigration. He mentioned the need to attract high-quality immigrants, who don't want to support non-working people (like, presumably, professional students) on their dime (taxes).

He just wants a return to a solid Canadian identity and a shared sense of what it is to be a Canadian. He was against multiculturalism not on the surface (like his oft-cited "Vietnamese restaurant") but at the heart of Canadian identity, preventing Canadian solidarity.

I'm disappointed that the conversation above has turned an interesting lecture into a racist cartoon. The article itself seems to have rendered all the women and the people of colour at the lecture invisible.

jaws May 11, 2008 at 7:49 a.m.

I applaud Steyn because he is brave enough to take on the orthodoxies du jour without apology. The thin-skinned Ms. Lee has been so indoctrinated in paint-by-numbers thinking that she is only capable of spouting out the usual blandishments of victimology 101. In her sorry vision, anyone who remotely suggests that there is an incompatibility of values (this is not a race issue and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise) between Islam and the West is automatically suspected of being a "racist" -- it is a clicheed chorus that is aimed at simply shutting down debate. Ms. Lee's unoriginal rebuttals sounded like regurgitations from a lecture on Post-Colonialism.
There is a legion of self-appointed, multicult thought-police who are so insecure about their officially-sanctioned new sense of entitlement that they are compelled to actively magnify perceived grievances. Ms. Lee is a victim to be sure, a victim of a higher-education system that takes a page from Maoist or Stalinist methods of sustained programming. In this case, the official program is "feel-good multiculturalism" which often permits an undisguised animosity towards the "dominant" culture (i.e: the west) and a naive, and uninformed embrace of it's cultural or ideological opposites as merely misunderstood victims of colonial oppression.
How can one reason with this? Is there any use arguing that the Taliban are vicious scum who need to be obliterated? I'm pretty sure that she will be disappointed to find out that Canadians and other allied forces are actually seen as liberators in that country. Although, she and her comrades would be compelled on insisting that life was so much rosier under those cuddly, egalitarian Taliban.
All you can see is a racist under every bed, sort of like the McCarthyists in the 1950's with the "reds." In fact, Mark Steyn is the target of a witch hunt of sorts and he's doing us a big favour by rooting out and exposing the hypocrisy and the dangerous folly of his critics, much of whom have probably not spent any time reading his work. If any of you were, you'd understand that he reserves his harshest condemnations for the utopian social engineering of governments in the west (read: Europe and Canada.) He accuses them of being blinded by their own high-mindedness vis-a-vis immigration to the point where they have failed to anticipate the “fraying at the edges” as it were. In effect, he's suggesting that we in the west are ignorant of Islamic society and as a result, we can't conceive of how an open, pluralistic society could be so threatening to adherents of a strict, fundamentalist faith.
Mark Steyn is doing a great job of taunting all of his critics out into the open to be exposed for the crypto-authoritarian censors that they are.

Fintan May 11, 2008 at 7:50 a.m.

Dorothy 19: "Telescoping of education" meant people not spending as many years as they can in university."

That's rich coming from a high school dropout.

And what a preposterous idea to even imagine a racist demagogue like the Schweyn being the head of the EU or even Britain!

Surely the more education people can get the better.

Course then they might not buy as many of the schweyn's books.

LOL

Casey May 11, 2008 at 8:01 a.m.

jaws May 11, 2008 at 7:49 a.m.

This entire post above does not dignify nor is worthy even of further comment. The remarks in fact turn on themselves and the resulting impressions merely end up actually becoming precisely what this poster, jaws, accuses jade_lee of. Jaws? YOU are an embarrassement......

leaf May 11, 2008 at 10:49 a.m.

casey, i love your writing style. it's so...?..so...??..so.....???.....so absurd and senseless!

bravo!

agnostic May 11, 2008 at 10:52 a.m.

jade_lee:

I understand, you are not able to produce one single Mark Steyn's quote that would be denounced by our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

I understand you are not able to explain any meaningful relationship between Islam and race.

To satisfy your curiosity about my nick - I just didn't feel any urge to use for this particular forum a different one from what I am using elsewhere.

agnostic May 11, 2008 at 10:58 a.m.

Dorothy17:

If your description of the event's audience is accurate, then Douglas Bell's title of the article is not just biased but blatantly biased, bordering on mendacious.

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 11:05 a.m.

What would Mark Steyn do if he was the head of the EU asked Heather Reisman? Well, he just might eliminate university education! Because he's like that...

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 11:11 a.m.

University education is a waste of time. According to Steyn, all you have to do is attract a rich mentor like Conrad Black and you've bagged yourself a job writing for newspapers. Education? What for?

Casey May 11, 2008 at 11:25 a.m.

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 11:11 a.m.

" University education is a waste of time. According to Steyn, all you have to do is attract a rich mentor like Conrad Black and you've bagged yourself a job writing for newspapers. Education? What for? "

At least we agree here. I have to state that Steyn's rather early departure from highschool was probably typical of him - Steyn thought and thinks and writes as though he never needed a higher education - people like this always believe that they alone are the oracles of truth and fact; that schools and universities are for the plebes....

jade_lee May 11, 2008 at 11:29 a.m.

For your information agnostic I don't have to prove, via quotes from Steyn, anything, Why rehash? Do you think I am here to win some silly prize? The Media has done a fine job suggesting to the reading public what Steyn is all about.....I just sit back and watch it unfold....his views are not mainstream and contradict what new leadership will communicate to the voting public. He supports a view that is on it's way out. As a Canadian I appreciate my multicultural society and know that people say all kinds of baloney behind closed doors about it but when asked for these views in public they often are smart enough to shut up.

Person_of_Choler May 11, 2008 at 11:44 a.m.

Casey,
Mr. Steyn's schooling, although curtailed, equipped him for a pretty good career as a writer, which career seems not to have been hindered by the downfall of Conrad Black.

To paraphrase a Paul Simon lyric:

His lack of education hasn't hurt him none
He can read the writing on the wall.

leaf May 11, 2008 at 11:45 a.m.

your style also conveys a sense of self-entitlement and grandeur.
are you an aristocrat, casey?

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 11:55 a.m.

Note to choleric person: regarding Steyn's lack of formal education and ability to "read the writing on the wall"

The ability to read grafitti qualifies Mark Steyn to pontificate on multiculturalism? Go Mark! Lucky for him there's a xenophobic audience eager to buy his books.

And regarding his "pretty good career":

Tall semi-handsome white men are often hired for jobs they aren't qualified for. It happens a lot.

agnostic May 11, 2008 at 12:14 p.m.

jade_lee:

For your information, I didn't say you have to prove anything. (Of course, I have only vague idea and no control over what you might be able to divine from between my lines.)

I am only noting that you have tried and failed to substantiate a statement you had made. That's all.

leaf May 11, 2008 at 12:15 p.m.

listen blondie, whether or not you are xenophobic or homophobic remains to be seen.
one thing for sure: you resent homeless people aka "hobos".
quit your mightier than thou BS. you are so transparent.

jade_lee May 11, 2008 at 12:51 p.m.

agnostic it's your choice to support Steyn, Conrad Black or even Bush himself, as I see it these people have substantiated exactly what I have written about in their own persoanl failures to convince anyone that they are credible in the way they view the world and that their views will make our world a better place, all politics aside people are more alike than different and our common goal is to educate and feed our young, take care of our sick and dying and respect each others differences.
I don't have thin skin. I have been exposed to more diversity than the average person and I have learned a great deal from that. I think I am a good judge of character, Steyn does not speak for me as a Canadian and if people like him want our society to reflect his views I suggest his school of thought gain more political power as it appears that his views are at war with the voting public at the moment here in Canada and in the US. I myself will never stop fighting warped thinkers.

agnostic May 11, 2008 at 1 p.m.

Barbara_in_BC:

One of the interesting tidbits of information from a conversation with the dean of local community college was that significant portion of their students in trades and service industries are BAs.

I wonder if you can explain any particular advantages of spending three to four years of one's life, and good chunk of money, at a university before one enters a carpenter appreticeship program or enrolls in a real estate agent course.

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 1:17 p.m.

agnostic wants me to explain the advantages of spending time at university before getting a more practical education. Here we go:

Literate blue collar workers. Cultured real estate agents who can converse intelligently. Government clerks with political smarts.

chingola May 11, 2008 at 1:20 p.m.

Toronto Life - you have a thin skin. I see you are deleting speech - deleting bloggers' whole train of arguements. Is that because it does not fit your views?
You might attract a wider readership if you allowed arguement.
As I said before, not serious writers at Toronto Life anymore...just peddlers of gossip. You and Star Weekly.

Fintan May 11, 2008 at 1:52 p.m.

Chingola:

"Toronto Life - you have a thin skin. I see you are deleting speech - deleting bloggers' whole train of arguements. Is that because it does not fit your views?"

Not quite, Chingola. The posts in question were deleted because in them another poster is accused of being a paedophile and of having raped numerous children. Naturally, no proof is presented. I have preserved the posts and will send them to you if you wish. My e-mail is fintan19162yahoo.co.uk

Another post was deleted because it contains someone's telephone number and urges others to make nuisance calls in the middle of the night.

Incidentally, the person whose posts were removed is most obviously a seriously disturbed person, probably a victim of parental sexual abuse and quite obsessed with me. I gave up responding to the individual weeks ago and have no intention of ever responding again.

Lack of contact with me seems to make the poor creature even more obsessed. Fortunately, I live on the other side of an ocean from the psychotic person in question.

Thus I do not believe Toronto Life is over-reacting. They have in the past also removed blatantly anti-Semitic comments posted by the same person and death threats against others.

Freedom of speech is fine, but illegality can not be tolerated anywhere.

Incidentally, the nuisance poster has also claimed on several occasions to be acting in collusion with and on behalf of Conrad Black. Food for thought on the part of His Lardship's legal advisers, although there is no reason not to believe that this too is just the churning of a very sick mind.

leaf May 11, 2008 at 1:53 p.m.

[This comment has been removed.]

Fintan May 11, 2008 at 1:54 p.m.

Sorry Chingola, typo. The 2 should be an @ in the addy.

Casey May 11, 2008 at 2 p.m.

" Not quite, Chingola. The posts in question were deleted because in them another poster is accused of being a paedophile and of having raped numerous children. Naturally, no proof is presented. I have preserved the posts and will send them to you if you wish. My e-mail is fintan19162yahoo.co.uk " - Fintan May 11, 2008 at 1:52 p.m.

Leaf, the poster in question, is a sick, creepy, loner of the err lower classes whose life and home are sewers. Nobody here or anywhere, for that matter, deserves the abuse that this very disturbed and twisted and perverted individual hurls at Fintan and others who post to this blog. That Toronto Life still has not banned this loser is the real question to be discussed....

leaf May 11, 2008 at 2:03 p.m.

[This comment has been removed.]

Casey May 11, 2008 at 2:23 p.m.

Casey May 11, 2008 at 2:16 p.m.

Casey May 11, 2008 at 2:12 p.m.

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 11:20 a.m.

Corrections and additions -

And what shall I call you? Let's see - someone who is afraid to announce her racist and prejudicial views and so cloaks them in endless blabber and links to online sites; someone who is so unsure of herself and her perceptions and opinions that she permits a disturbed lowlife ( leaf ) to continually insult and abuse her; someone whose professed racial and ethnic biases are verrrrrrry obvious - you are fooling no one, Barbara_in_BC - you are as dirty and stinky as your thinly veiled and reviled opinions of others who smell a loser like you well in advance, despite the endless online links you post ostensibly to errr back up your silly and rubbishy opinions....I am gald that I have a life that does not mirror or stoop to your levels - job, homelife, family. I, unlike you, am damn proud of who and what I am.....too bad you will never convince me that you hold the same opinions about yourself.

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 2:25 p.m.

You are one repellant dame.

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 2:33 p.m.

Mark Steyn hasn’t a firm grasp of history. If he can write tripe like the following, he is unaware that the old enemy of the Jewish people, the Philistines are now called Palestinians:

“The Arabs even swiped Jew hatred from the Europeans. Though there was certainly friction between Jews and Muslims before the 20th century, it took the Europeans to package a disorganized, free-lance dislike of Jews into a big-time ideology with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Mein Kampf and all the rest.”

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1003/st...

He calls centuries of battles of Biblical proportion “friction”?

Fintan May 11, 2008 at 2:38 p.m.

Furthermore, Chingola, the psychotic poster in question is constantly trying to think up new ways of spinning sick fantasies. Thus she (I know, because she has called my voicemail with semi-incoherent threats and is a woman in later life, fifties, sixties, maybe seventies) creates e-mail accounts and sends herself sick messages, complete with porn links, and posts them on the blog claiming they are from me.

Completely absurd, as were her two anonymous reports to the Finnish police's web site claiming that I have been raping children in Thailand.

I can only speculate, but it seems we are dealing with a severe case of projection and tranferance. She feels guilty about the abuse she suffered and her inability to do anything about it, so invents a "paedophile" whipping boy -me.

Like I said, it's sad, but I no longer respond and just ignore the nuisance calls. The allegations no longer concern me, because it is clear to the regulars here that we are dealing with a very sad case of victim-turned-would-be-victimiser.

When you see the likes of that, it must make you thank your deity or karma that you were spared whatever in childhood created that monster.

chingola May 11, 2008 at 3:29 p.m.

Thank you, Fintan. Appreciate your comments. My deleted posts did not reference any of the people or topics that you mention. I wrote about the content of this article. No name calling or your reasons given for deletion of comments. I did give a dig at the quality of TL's journalism. Could that be one reason?
Is it true that Douglas Bell is a nom de plume? If so, TL is worrying me now. Why are you hiding? Why don't you stand up for your words? What is happening to free speech in Canada?
Online magazines are more interesting to me when they allow comments and divergent views for a selection of their articles - doesn't need to be for many of their columnists. Arguements can be laid out in interesting and fresh ways.
It is sad when commenters fall to attacking each other and use profanity. That's not fair game and a waste to read. I like to read everyone's views on one subject.
It is how I learn and change my own views.
Too bad we can't chat about university and its delaying young people from entering the work world and what its role used to be and has become. We know that Richard Bransom, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, etc did not have any hallowed halls education but George Bush did...an MBA from a top Ivy league school even! Now wouldn't that be an interesting ball for us all to toss around? Oh well.
Perhaps Toronto Life could change its rules of debate online? Maybe to just give a reminder before typing to be better, kinder, more generous and also be more open minded to the thousands of choices we have in living our lives.
Choice is what Canada is about.
It is very obvious to me TL is choosing to only feature one stream of thought.
Never thought I would see that here. Free speech denied. Let's see how long this post stays up...

Dorothy17 May 11, 2008 at 3:30 p.m.

I did not hear Steyn condemn either university educations or 4 or 5 year university programs. Indeed, he was discussing European, specifically German, university students. Having studied in Germany, I can attest that many German students spend much longer than 4-5 years in university. Indeed, there are financial incentives to do so, as such things as student meals are subsidized by the state. Steyn was concerned with students prolonging their adolescence instead of taking up the duties and earning of adulthood, not with "over-education".

Having spent a good many impecunious years in university myself, I have to say that I admire Steyn for being what used to be praised as a "self-made man." He is certainly a successful and prolific journalist, and I wish I had both his facility with words and his sales.

Meanwhile, I thought I would add that there was rather more applause than there was cheering at the Indigo event. The event began with cheers but was punctuated with applause. The mood of the crowd was focused, serious and sometimes irritated at the hostess, but not carnival-like.

I would say that this Toronto Life article is entirely biased against Steyn and the crowd who came to hear him. This article is obsessed with race; Steyn spoke only of cultures.

leaf May 11, 2008 at 3:37 p.m.

[This comment has been removed.]

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 3:48 p.m.

chingola asked nervously:

"Is it true that Douglas Bell is a nom de plume?"

Don't believe leaf - here's the scoop:

Douglas Bell (nomination for Toronto Book Awards 2002)

Douglas Bell is a Toronto-born journalist, movie critic, book reviewer and broadcaster. While he's won National Magazine Awards for humour, he's also tackled difficult and mind-boggling subjects with flair and substance, producing a definitive piece on hospital restructuring for Toronto Life and a wild and colourful ride through the imposition of a capitalist free-market economy in Poland for Saturday Night, among others. He has also worked for The Globe and Mail, Shift, En Route and Canadian Business, CBC radio and television.

http://www.toronto.ca/book_awards/book_a...

agnostic May 11, 2008 at 4 p.m.

jade_lee

I have no way of knowing, and no particular interest in finding out, how good a judge of character you are or are not.

All I know is that you publicly make statments you cannot support by a factual, relevant and rational argument.

So if you, indeed, intend to fight warped thinkers, you might consider staying away from mirrors.

agnostic May 11, 2008 at 4:04 p.m.

Barbara_in_BC:

Thank you for your response.

I have to say that your view of non-university-educated blue collar workers as illiterate, of real estate agents with no university diploma on the wall as unable to converse intelligently and of clerks without a degree as politically stupid is as touching as it is unsurprizing.

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 4:18 p.m.

agnostic:

You're welcome?

Person_of_Choler May 11, 2008 at 4:20 p.m.

Dear, Dear, Barbara in BC,

I thought that all of the highly intelligent and copiously educated commenters here would know that the phrase "writing on the wall" alludes to a story in the Old Testament concerning the Prophet Daniel and King Belshazzar. It is a very common figure of speech that refers to a prophecy of doom, not to Mr. Steyn literally reading graffiti as you seem to have understood.

Paul Simon would be disappointed, too.

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 4:32 p.m.

Choler: Oops, didn't know you were claiming that Mark Steyn was psychic, foretelling doom and all that. The main thing with these prophets of doom is that they are wrong 99% of the time.

jade_lee May 11, 2008 at 4:39 p.m.

I would not give up my fine education for anything. It opened my eyes to the world at large and to thinkers of the past who contributed to the understanding of many things.

Critical thinking being the most important developmental aspect of a university education is lost on some, I see that fact everyday when I pick up a news paper.

Of course there are self-made people but I would suggest that these people put forth an effort to also learn about the world through travel, reading and listening to what other more learned people have to say.

It actually makes me laugh now when the neoconservative types like Steyn speak about handouts from the state going to subsidize education or help with the expenses of poor immigrants and/or citizens in both Canada or Europe in light of the fact that I have witnessed more handouts to various corporations and the lending institutions who have screwed up possibly in criminal ways and not a peep about that fact when he argues against how money is spent. So clearly it's not how much money you hand out but who the money goes to that really matters and if it goes to the rich and powerful or perhaps the military it's money well wasted? Steyn wants to protect rich criminals and those who fight illogical wars, my question is why?

My education was subsidized by the Canadian government through loans and grants and had that not been possible I would have never been able to attend. I paid every dime I borrowed back and paid large in interest prior to interest becoming a tax write off for student loans. I was pleased when I realized that our tax laws improved to help kids paying through the nose because they did not have rich parents. I use that education of mine every day in my work and as a parent and it serves me well.

Happy Mother's day Barb in BC! and to any other mother who visits this blog today.

agnostic May 11, 2008 at 4:40 p.m.

Person_of_Choler:

If Barbara_in_BC made it through what passes at today's universities as education, as I suspect is the case, her posts are rather eloquent testimony to the value thereof.

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 4:41 p.m.

Choler: Paul Simon used the phrase "read the writing on the wall" to mean "understand life". Nothing to do with prophesizing doom there. Maybe you're more of an Art Garfunkel fan?

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 4:43 p.m.

Thanks jade_lee for your student memories and for this:

"Happy Mother's day Barb in BC! and to any other mother who visits this blog today"

Fintan May 11, 2008 at 4:50 p.m.

Hi Chingola, it seems we were at cross purposes. I was not aware that any of YOUR posts had been deleted, but had seen numerous from the usual psychotic removed.

I now assume you were referring to a large block of posts at the beginning of the thread that has disappeared. However, I suspect there is some technical (or human error-related) explanation as many posts by several others, including myself, were in included.

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 5 p.m.

True Fintan, there were lots of posts yesterday and then all of a sudden only one was left. What happened? I assumed it was a technical error.

Casey May 11, 2008 at 5:27 p.m.

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 2:25 p.m.

" You are one repellant dame. "

And, guess what? I don't particularly like you or have any admiration for you - someone who disguises her hatreds and biases in dubious factoids, half truths and ouitright and outofsight lies and tries to back up her views with other writers' opinions, mores, values, beliefs, perceptions and views via interminable posted links. There is not an original bone in your body or brain and that attempt at pun and humor by stating earlier that errr " truth is stranger than Ficton " is a case in point. Basically? You're a typical lonely ignored and battered housewife who lives on the edges of and in the dregs of society more than likely in a similar sewer to this blog's other hater, leaf. Barbara_in_BC, meet your soulmate - Leaf.

leaf May 11, 2008 at 5:34 p.m.

"Is it true that Douglas Bell is a nom de plume?"

blondie answers, true to her ignorance:

"Don't believe leaf - here's the scoop:"

darlin, you should educate yourself and look up "nom de plume". why do you insist on embarassing yourself?

leaf May 11, 2008 at 5:39 p.m.

"I would not give up my fine education for anything."

no offense jello but what type of education is required to be a prison guard?
or are you one of those over qualified, over educated person for the job?

leaf May 11, 2008 at 5:41 p.m.

agnostic, i'm not through reading all the posts yet but i like your style.

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 5:52 p.m.

Casey: your disdain for those of the "lower classes" and "battered housewives" does not paint a very flattering picture of you. THINK about what you are writing.

leaf: Douglas Bell is not an "imposter" nor is his name a "nom de plume". If you have any other information on this ridiculous topic, please share.

leaf May 11, 2008 at 5:53 p.m.

casey @ 5:27: another one of your jewels. keep 'em coming.

only those who take you at face value don't find you hilarious.

if i may, i'll explain face value for the benefit of blondie....
face value means how much casey thinks her face is worth. ask her... you'll see: it's hilarious!

jade_lee May 11, 2008 at 5:58 p.m.

Apparently you have no idea how much the job pays leaf. Go look up Ontario's sunshine list and you will find out how many "general duty Officers" are on that list.
I think a good education is an asset to the job of prison guard. The days of "goons" watching over prisoners is over in our society now that educated people are inside the prison walls watching those who think they can hide under the radar and protect themselves behind a "Blue shield". A BSc hardly makes me overqualified for the job but it does allow me to write clear concise reports when I need to. In fact I would go as far to say that educated guards are changing the prison culture and are preforming the their duties according to the governments mandate and not according to some outdated cultural "code" historically found in prisons.

Casey May 11, 2008 at 5:59 p.m.

agnostic May 11, 2008 at 4:40 p.m.

Person_of_Choler:

" If Barbara_in_BC made it through what passes at today's universities as education, as I suspect is the case, her posts are rather eloquent testimony to the value thereof. "

Barbara_in_BC is precisely what Steyn is railing against and sadly, she more than proves his however misguided and odious case in point about higher education. Barbara_in_BC is unable to think for herself, quotes others because she is terrified to say anything original or interesting or intelligent ( in this, I believe that she is justified....lol ) and is unafraid, in fact, proud of her racist and ethnic hatreds. Any so called institution of higher learning that she might have intended is more than likely some secretarial or technical school out in the boondocks. I doubt that she would ever have scored higher than a 500 on her SAT's. - let alone have even taken them. Essentially? She is the quintessential dumb blogger hanger - on...and internet addict.

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 6:01 p.m.

If leaf is Barbara Amiel, then she should be grateful that today's prison guards are well educated. It must make life easier for Conrad Black.

It's such a dangerous job, I'm glad it pays well.

leaf May 11, 2008 at 6:02 p.m.

blondie, when did i ever write that douglas bell was a nom de plume? when and where?

what i wrote is that casey/sandy/donna etc are his noms de plume. i've already stated my reasons why.

but tell me dear, how do you explain that casey knows 2 specific details re myself, details provided by my IP address(es)?

Casey May 11, 2008 at 6:03 p.m.

correction -
she might have intended = she might have ATTended - sorry, people....:-).

jade_lee May 11, 2008 at 6:05 p.m.

lol how you put down my job leaf when you hide behind your "Privacy" excuse in not disclosing your own work.....not proud of what you do for a living leaf? Or is your job so top secret that it would put us all in danger to disclose it? It's obvious who you are.

leaf May 11, 2008 at 6:09 p.m.

jello, spare me the screw's academia romanticism and paycheck. i simply want to know what education, if any, is required to be a prison guard.

do you comprehend this simple question? if so, can you answer it?
thank you

leaf May 11, 2008 at 6:14 p.m.

"Or is your job so top secret that it would put us all in danger to disclose it? It's obvious who you are."

why bother asking, then?

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 6:14 p.m.

leaf: it was chingola who asked nervously,

"Is it true that Douglas Bell is a nom de plume? If so, TL is worrying me now. Why are you hiding?"

I had thought you'd said earlier that "Doug Bell is an imposter" but I might have been misreading something. Clearly he wouldn't sabotage his own blog, so your suggestion that he is responsible for posts from Casey/Sandy/Donna is absurd.

Casey May 11, 2008 at 6:16 p.m.

" but tell me dear, how do you explain that casey knows 2 specific details re myself, details provided by my IP address(es)? " - leaf May 11, 2008 at 6:02 p.m.

Someone please inform leaf that we know more than " 2 specific details " about this individual and are simply waiting for and monitoring leaf to ensure that this individual does not cross that boundary that divides harrassement from outright threats to harm.

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 6:20 p.m.

When Casey starts referring to herself in the plural, be afraid. Be very afraid.

leaf May 11, 2008 at 6:22 p.m.

"Clearly he wouldn't sabotage his own blog"

sabotage?!!!
donna & puppets are and have been the lifeline of this blog. what's wrong with you woman?

leaf May 11, 2008 at 6:25 p.m.

i'd love to have you at the poker table casey. i'd clean you out each and every time.
bad bad bad bluffer...

leaf May 11, 2008 at 6:36 p.m.

[This comment has been removed.]

jade_lee May 11, 2008 at 7:53 p.m.

I asked because I realize you will not disclose. As for the questions that you ask me, I like the reaction I get when I don't answer. Keep those questions coming. What a silly person you can be leaf.

noway May 11, 2008 at 7:58 p.m.

agnostic
"For example, if I wanted, I could read between your lines that you are actually a Mark Steyn supporter writing the way you do in an attempt to make his adversaries look not particularly coherent."

If you are familiar with Steyn's writings, then you do not need to read between the lines to interpret his bias. In fact, he has made no effort to hide his hatred of Islam and Muslims. Anyone familiar with classic anti-semitism would immediately draw parallels to the same phobias and fears of a growing population of an identifiable ethnicity or group in society. For example, in an article titled "Islamopocalypse," Steyn writes (and I quote directly):

"Muslims living in the West are incapable of being loyal citizens of Western societies"

Contrast this to the widely held fear of Jewish citizens in Nazi Germany who were seen to be disloyal to the leader.

Then, here's another example.

"Muslims have a collective agenda of taking over the world, including the West"

The hatred and bigotry in which is self-explanatory and readily apparent.

That Steyn's writings are based on and formed by hatred of Muslims and Islam is an indisputable fact, which is all the more why I find it surprising so many are willing to defend the hatred in his writing. If his hate speech is protected by his civil liberties and not a violation of Canadian human rights is another issue, but there is no denying that this man is a bigot and racist of the highest order.

Casey May 11, 2008 at 8:14 p.m.

noway May 11, 2008 at 7:58 p.m.

Strong words and of course I am in complete agreement. What is particularly scary to me are those, like Barbara_in_BC who try to cloak their hatreds in self - righteous name calling, opinions that are seemingly backed up and therefore rendered acceptable by continuous online links as " proof ", who think that simply because they defend some etnic groups that somehow it's ok to attack other groups. It is people like Barbara_in_BC as well as Mark Steyn, whom we have to worry about - the closet haters. Frankly? These racists and bigots scrae the hell out of me because they attempt to disguise their hatreds behind a veil of manufactured and totally incorrect disinformation as well as presenting a public face of seeming tolerance.

Casey May 11, 2008 at 8:17 p.m.

Casey May 11, 2008 at 8:14 p.m.

noway May 11, 2008 at 7:58 p.m.
correction of typos -
Strong words and of course I am in complete agreement. What is particularly scary to me are those, like Barbara_in_BC who try to cloak their hatreds in self - righteous name calling, opinions that are seemingly backed up and therefore rendered acceptable by continuous online links as " proof ", who think that simply because they defend some ethnic groups that somehow it's ok to attack other groups. It is people like Barbara_in_BC as well as Mark Steyn, whom we have to worry about - the closet haters. Frankly? These racists and bigots scare the hell out of me because they attempt to disguise their hatreds behind a veil of manufactured and totally incorrect disinformation and via presenting public faces of seeming tolerance.
Good post, noway.

leaf May 11, 2008 at 8:42 p.m.

what education, if any, is required to be a prison guard?

answer: high school diploma with major in baton twirling.

prisons aren't better run than they used to be, they're more crowded.

bring in prison guards with PHDs and suddenly, prisoners turn to lambs, gangs disband and join together to win best choir at Prison Idol. simple.

leaf May 11, 2008 at 8:52 p.m.

casey... again, fun stuff @ 8:14pm

a suggestion if i may: sometimes, you should show a little restraint. for example: "totally incorrect disinformation".
one would assume that disinformation is always incorrect. but don't mind me. i appreciate the heart you put into your posts. cute.

leaf May 11, 2008 at 9:05 p.m.

casey, please check my 6:36pm
there are 2, not 1 but 2 threats in there aimed at 2 people. i admit it. what more do you want?

if you don't come and get me, i'll burn this blog before doug bell eats it.

that's 3 threats.

jade_lee May 11, 2008 at 9:12 p.m.

Who said anything about PHDs? I don't know too many guard now a days with only a highschool diploma, so who exactly do you think the government hires leaf? The person with the better education of course. I had no idea you felt so much hostility towards my profession. It would be fun watching you perform my duties with that big mouth of yours.
I measure my own performance as a guard by the fact that I have never been injured, I effectively manage inmates and to your surprise no doubt, I have attended several graduations of inmates who have gained their high school diploma while serving a sentence. I never have the expectation that prisoners will behave as lambs or renounce their gang affiliations but I also know as a human being that people respond well to humane treatment and consistent rule enforcement.
Ontario compared their new "superjails" one run privately and one run by the government, my employer, and found by all parameters measured that my employer was doing a better job...both new superjails are now run by the government and currently overcrowding is not a problem. Racism is.

Lit_200 May 11, 2008 at 9:13 p.m.

plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

Still, good to be back enjoying the [same old] blather with the notable exceptions of two bright new minds: jaws and dorothy. Welcome!

agnostic May 11, 2008 at 9:56 p.m.

noway:

Could you share from where exactly do you quote directly?

Thanks.

leaf May 11, 2008 at 9:58 p.m.

knowing how manipulative prisoners are, and how much they resent the likes of you, i find it extremely naive of you to write "...people respond well to humane treatment and consistent rule enforcement. "

i don't believe for one minute that you're a prison guard. you must live in the same bucolic world as blondie... is she an inspiration for your character?

Casey May 11, 2008 at 10:18 p.m.

leaf May 11, 2008 at 6:36 p.m.
leaf May 11, 2008 at 9:05 p.m.

Meh.....

leaf May 11, 2008 at 10:41 p.m.

like i said: bluffer

how does it work? are you paid by the word? do you have a minimum words? maximum?

fun gig, i must say.

GravityLevity2 May 12, 2008 at 12:36 a.m.

what happened to all the postings on this thread from Friday and the first 18 hours of Saturday?

leaf May 12, 2008 at 1:11 a.m.

that seems to be classified info GL2

Fintan May 12, 2008 at 2:59 a.m.

Good morning to all, and thanks for some interesting posts during the (my) night. Noway makes the point very well: The Schweyn is just a reincarnation of Dr. Goebbels, although the latter was better educated and capable of siring at least six kids rather than just whining about a low birth rate. LOL

Racists and demagogues like the Schweyn are refereed to as the dog-whistle type, because their messages are pitched to be audible to certain kinds of ears and remain unnoticed by others unless they are specifically vigilant to detect them.

Maybe we in Europe are more sensitive to repackaged, reborn nazism. After all, most of us think once was enough.

I also applaud Jade-Lee for her defence of education. All those comments about graduates being unemployed is just the kind of stupid bar-room talk you hear from those who either didn't or couldn't get an education. Being educated may not guarantee that you will get a job, but it sure as hell won't be a barrier to it. Here in Finland, for example, civil servants are required by law to be university graduates.

Besides, there is more to life than work, and being educated adds richness of so many non-work-related aspects.

Back to Monday morning. Unlike the Schweyn's forgotten patron and sponsor His Lardship, I am a free man with choice. I chose to have a lie-in this morning, getting up only at 9.30, and then I chose to have Keralan coffee. Look for it in good specialty shops in Canada; I buy it whenever I go to Kerala. I wonder what kind of slop His Lardship has to make do with to wash down his tasteless breakfast?

It's at time like this I feel glad I never became crooked, and especially that I never met anyone as evil as Morticia to encourage me in my crookedness to the point where I ended up where His Lardship is now.

Seventy days served, only 1,730 to go. Let's hope for his sake his bravado continues to carry him through and suvives the setback of having his appeal shot down. I know this is repetitious, but I'll make it a regular feature now that I know it annoys a certain psychotic so much. ROFL

Today is the day His Lardship's scofflaw son appears in court again. Let's see how that goes.

Soon I'll have a look through the papers and see if there's any mention of His Lardship and/or Morticia, but I don't expect to find much.

He is where he is and she has been effectively defanged as well.

Karma be praised.

Lit_200 May 12, 2008 at 5:28 a.m.

Boring repetition excused. Carry on but don't forget the ROFLs. We miss it when you mess up.

Why knock a man for doing what (the only thing) he does best?

Fintan May 12, 2008 at 6:10 a.m.

Kit 200, the one true faithful, ROFLMAO at your blind faith in a total loser.And who are the "we"?

Fintan May 12, 2008 at 6:56 a.m.

LOL, this article is quite interesting. It reminds me of one abuse victim who ought to read it and might then understand why little rats turn out to be the kind of big rats they are.

http://www.economist.co.uk/science/displ...

Could it also be that the Schweyn's mother didn't lick him often enough when he was small.

ROFL (specially for Lit)

phennn May 12, 2008 at 7:20 a.m.

I see that my post from Friday has been deleted. Regardless of the content, why are you deleting posts? Was I inciting hatred by pointing out the racism of the blog's title? Where is your integrity now? Will Ms. Reisman hire you anymore with this kind of back handed revisionism?

There is nothing to be said of this blog article that is not contained in its racist title and mindless quips from people who openly admit to NOT READING the book they are tearing apart.

I would suggest to those few people on the blog who are trying to discuss this book honestly... go elsewhere, there is nothing to be gained in this forum.

Fintan May 12, 2008 at 8:19 a.m.

"Regardless of the content, why are you deleting posts? Was I inciting hatred by pointing out the racism of the blog's title?"

Chill out, phenn! A huge block of posts, dozens of them, have disappeared from the beginning of the thread. They included opinions on both sides of the argument in addition to a few from our resident psychotic. I believe they were deleted by mistake or as a result of a technical blip. There's nothing more sinister at play than that.

If you feel you made a good point in one of your posts that was deleted, which not just post it again and stop whining?

LOL

Casey May 12, 2008 at 8:25 a.m.

Barbara_in_BC May 10, 2008 at 11:18 a.m.

Behold the two yentas of the blog saying Meh and Feh to each other. Quite the opposite of eloquent.

Barbara_in_BC May 10, 2008 at 3:15 p.m.

Casey: yen·ta
n. Slang
A person, especially a woman, who is meddlesome or gossipy.

[Yiddish yente, back-formation from the woman's name Yente, alteration of Yentl, from Old Italian Gentile, from gentile, amiable, highborn, from Latin gentīlis, of the same clan

American Heritage Dictionary

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 2:25 p.m.
" You are one repellant dame. "

Since I am always willing to give another the benefit of a doubt, I am offering you an opportunity to 1) explain why you chose to call me a derogatory religious, ethnic and Jewish/Yiddish name when you have no idea to which religion I belong, if any, and you were therefore able to call me any negative religious, racial or religious name but chose a Jewish insult instead of say, a Muslim or WASP term. ( I am in no way diminsishing what you chose to call me and, in fact, think you chose to betray your racist and cultural prejudice by referring to me as someone you seem to find rather " repellant ", as you so stated above. ) 2) why, indeed, you refer to me, as per your posted definition of " yenta ", as a " gossip "...? I am unclear as to what exactly I was gossiping about - perhaps you could clarify this for us here on this blog.
Be careful at whom you hurl your racist and ethnic slurs ( at least get your info correct ) as well as try curbing that bitter and biased tongue of yours - maybe read up on what constitutes a bigot and / or racist and see if perhaps you might just fit that mold....after all.
Have a pleasant day / evening...

Casey May 12, 2008 at 9:41 a.m.

" Racists and demagogues like the Schweyn are refereed to as the dog-whistle type, because their messages are pitched to be audible to certain kinds of ears and remain unnoticed by others unless they are specifically vigilant to detect them. " - Fintan May 12, 2008 at 2:59 a.m.

I am rushing here but just read your post and wanted you to know that I am in complete agreement. You have a knack of saying something so eloquently and are able to truly get to the heart of the matter. Great post, Fintan. Busy time ahead.....have a terrific day or evening.

Waynester May 12, 2008 at 10 a.m.

Barbara_in_BC May 11, 2008 at 4:32 p.m.

Choler: Oops, didn't know you were claiming that Mark Steyn was psychic, foretelling doom and all that. The main thing with these prophets of doom is that they are wrong 99% of the time.

Would that include Al Gore & the hoax known as Global Warming?

Casey/Fintan:
In lieu of coherent argument (which really is Steyn's point in advocating free speech vis'a vis' Canada's Stalinesque HRC's), you prefer to call him names & pervert his name. Very telling, indeed...

Waynester May 12, 2008 at 10:04 a.m.

Phenn:
I would suggest to those few people on the blog who are trying to discuss this book honestly... go elsewhere, there is nothing to be gained in this forum.

Roger that, Phenn
Waynster out

Fintan May 12, 2008 at 11:10 a.m.

Waynester, I thought Canada was a parliamentary democracy and a constitutional monarchy and a member of the G7 and even NATO. But what would I know stuck up here in this remote backwater of north-eastern Europe?

Thanks for putting me right and telling me that Canada has powerful Stalinesque institutions.

Have multi-party elections been abolished there as well? If they haven't, then maybe the Schweyn should put his case to the people next time round and seek election so that he can save his native country from the imminent scourge of Islam. LOL

Then you write: "I would suggest to those few people on the blog who are trying to discuss this book honestly... go elsewhere, there is nothing to be gained in this forum."

Right, try http://www.marksteyn.com/
There, all the feedback published will agree with you.

Or you could try www.stormfront.org if you're really big-time into white power.

The people who run that web site wouldn't be my cup of tea by a long shot. In fact, they're far gone in nastiness, but they are great admirers of the Schweyn.

LOL

leaf May 12, 2008 at 11:16 a.m.

fickton, where did you meet your wife?

"There's a Norwegian retail chain called Kondomeriet that sells adult products like sex dolls "

leaf May 12, 2008 at 11:17 a.m.

your pet has an eery resemblance to your wife...

"same thing in a sheep version"

GravityLevity2 May 12, 2008 at 11:34 a.m.

leaf to casey: '"totally incorrect disinformation".
one would assume that disinformation is always incorrect'
Disinformation may consist of falsehood mixed with truth, or an only partially stated and therefore misleading truth. Steyn's statements about fundamentalist Islam would seem to me to fall into these categories. "Totally incorrect disinformation" would be disinformation that contained nothing true. Such as declarations of Conrad Black's pure-hearted innocence.

Fintan May 12, 2008 at 11:49 a.m.

Here's a link to an article by the Schweyn on the Stormfront neo-nazi web site (don't go there if you have a weak stomach):

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthre...

Well, if they approve of him so much, maybe I should start revising my opinion of him as well ... ROFLMAO

Isn't there an uncanny parallel between the Schweyn's view of his own country's human rights commissions, which were presumably set up under legislation that the country's democratically elected representatives had deliberated and approved, but who dismisses them as "kargaroo courts", and the attitude of His Lardship, who broke the law in the United States, was brought to justice for it, dismissed the prosecution as "Nazis" and, even after a prolonged trial, a formidable defence and months of deliberation by the court and jury, refuses to accept the verdict and now asserts that the USA, once the best place in the world in his view, has a perverted justice system that persecutes the innocent (like himself, SML)?

It seems to me that neither His Lardship nor the Schweyn really have much time for democracy at all. What they really want and believe they deserve is to live in an oligarchy, where superior Besserwisser like them tell everyone else what to do.

The Schweyn rails against human rights commissions, which exist to protect fundamental and human rights enshrined in international conventions to which Canada is party and prevent ethnic and/or religious groups from scapegoating and discrimination, yet never seems to have found it odd that a Canadian with a long history of highly questionable financial dealings was able to bluff and buy his way into an anachronistic and utterly undemocratic legislative body - to wit the House of Lards in London!

Heaven help us all if we ever have to depend on either of those oafish louts for our liberties.

Notice, too, that the Schweyn has been dropped by every significant European publication he wrote for. The Telegraph and Spectator published his columns only because His Lardship forced them to, and the Irish Times dropped him like a hot brick after large numbers of readers, disgusted at his over-the-top Islamophobia and neocon bile, cancelled their subscriptions. For his part, the Schweyn probably finds it too much of a chore to tone down his scribblings enough to avoid falling foul of European anti-defamation laws. Remember what happened to another of his ilk, David Irving, in Austria?

leaf May 12, 2008 at 11:52 a.m.

i agree GL2

leaf May 12, 2008 at 12:07 p.m.

"leaf, if you plan on making nuisance calls, have you heard of caller ID, advanced answering machines that ring only during pre-set hours, the RCMP and the USJD" - fickton September 20, 2007 at 2:31 p.m.

euh no, what's caller ID? what does it do?
those advanced answering machines sound nice. thank god you have one of those fickton otherwise those nuisance calls from the past 3 months would have been annoying, no?

i've heard of the RCMP and USJD but what do they have to do with me, fickton?

Fintan May 12, 2008 at 12:13 p.m.

Waynester and phenn, scroll to the top of the page and see the Site Administrator's note. As I thought, it was a technical glitch. As you can see, the site has a very liberal policy on posting and would not delete any of the posts of yours that I have read, no matter how much in error they are.

leaf May 12, 2008 at 12:35 p.m.

let's see how long fickton can hold without posting vulgarities...
looks like he wants to impress the newbies with civility.

leaf May 12, 2008 at 12:39 p.m.

"I'm willing to bet that she will not visit him more than once in the hoosegow." - Fintan September 26, 2007 at 9:59 a.m.

i love the archives.

Barbara_in_BC May 12, 2008 at 12:47 p.m.

The fact is, Casey your remarks are repellent, not your religion.

Fintan May 12, 2008 at 12:57 p.m.

Down memory lane: At almost exactly this hour, it is exactly seventy days since His Lardship "surrendered" himself at the Coleman Institution for the Morally and Ethically Challenged. I was just checking through the archives, which I love, and came across this text by the brilliant Tom Bower:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/ar...

Wow, what a comedown: Morticia even had a second lavatory installed in the plane at a cost of $250,000 so that she wouldn't have to share with anything so common and ordinary as a mere pilot. LOL Now His Lardship has to make a dash to get there in time in the morning, and probably has to glance nervously sideways to see what Bubba is looking at. ROFL

17 butlers! A long way from Watford, but at least Morticia was much closer to the gutter at birth than was the silver-spoon-in-big-mouth Black. But she never got much further away from it, and now he's right in it.

Sometimes it almost gives you goose-bumps to imagine people as gauche as His lardship, a windbag with seemingly no internal control system, as this passage reveals.

"His social climbing was not sure-footed. Over lunch at Highgrove with Prince Charles a torrent of history poured from him, describing the British royal family’s eating habits. Ignoring Charles’s obvious distaste for the excruciating details of his grandfather George VI’s tendencies, Black did not stop until minutes before he departed.

“Not a success,” Charles later told an aide.

***

Poor Charles, I feel sorry for him, because all his royal breeding makes it impossible for him to tell one of the biggest bores on the planet to "stop bending my ear and bugger off, there's a good fellow!"

ROFLMAO at the thought of those two vulgar clowns and their total lack of any concept of reality.

Waynester May 12, 2008 at 1:10 p.m.

Fintan
1.I haven't accused anyone of deleting my posts. I believe that was Fintan alone.
2. As regards to you suggesting that I visit www.marksteyn.com; how do you think I got to this idiot's forum in the 1st place?
3. I was quoting Phenn re HIS opinion that meaningful debate isn't what you would call abundant on this thread. As it happens the more I read, the more I agree.
4.Canada's HRC statutes certainly invite comparison's to Stalin or at least Orwell. You can be brought up on charges of basically "hurting someone's feelings". The language is positively Orwellian and is being used to shut down debate, something all of you appear to enjoy.
5. The fact that a despicable organization, i.e., Stormfront, appears to like someone because they champion free speech in general does not mean said champion agrees with the opinions of that organization. Got it? (see Voltaire) Trying to associate the two highlights your rank dishonesty better than anything I could ever say.
6. I read the book. How many of you have?

Waynester May 12, 2008 at 1:11 p.m.

Sorry, I meant "Phenn alone"

leaf May 12, 2008 at 1:30 p.m.

ut_ho, looks like fickton wasn't able to pull a fast one over waynester.

the creep must be the only one left still believing he can fool anyone...
me? i just like pointing that out ☺

leaf May 12, 2008 at 1:37 p.m.

anyways, what are you gonna do with the plastic doll, fickton?

"Bishop says its OK to give head or go down on her, but only within marriage".

OIC. that's why you call her your "wife"....
hum...

jade_lee May 12, 2008 at 1:41 p.m.

waynester, I don't have to look at pornography to know that some of it is sick and demented just like I don't have to read anymore of Steyn's neocon baloney to know how ignorant the book he is hawking is.

leaf May 12, 2008 at 1:45 p.m.

jello, do you consider yourself an open-minded person?

Casey May 12, 2008 at 1:46 p.m.

Waynester May 12, 2008 at 10 a.m.
" Casey/Fintan:
In lieu of coherent argument (which really is Steyn's point in advocating free speech vis'a vis' Canada's Stalinesque HRC's), you prefer to call him names & pervert his name. Very telling, indeed...-"

Some free lunch hour time - And please, Weynester, what would you state if you agreed with us?...lol. Do not bother to respond. I think I know that answer....lol. Are you a bag of hot or cold wind? Kindly say something worth this blog - clearly you have nothing to say that is anything other than the usual anonymous slams to poster you cannot see. Pathetic....

leaf May 12, 2008 at 1:50 p.m.

casey & jello are like fickton & gerard: always posting together.

just saying...

Barbara_in_BC May 12, 2008 at 1:54 p.m.

Waynester said:

"I read the book. How many of you have?"

You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows, to quote Bob Dylan.

Casey May 12, 2008 at 1:54 p.m.

I am always suspicious of ignoramuses who log on here out of no where, attack and abuse and insult, name call, have nothing relevant or interesting or factual to say and sit back and post link after link to back up their B.S. because they are unable to rely upon their own native intelligence or education....lol.
Please note that my post is directed at both Barbara_in_BC and Waynester.
Gotta go back to work.....ciao.

leaf May 12, 2008 at 2:02 p.m.

"I am always suspicious of ignoramuses who log on here out of no where"

tut tut casey... that was you not so long ago, taking over sandy who had taken over donna... remember?

no double standard please.

Barbara_in_BC May 12, 2008 at 2:03 p.m.

leaf said to jade_lee:

"i don't believe for one minute that you're a prison guard. you must live in the same bucolic world as blondie... is she an inspiration for your character?"

leaf is such a deceptive person that she can't believe there are honest, open people who post here. Under one identity that is.

Fintan May 12, 2008 at 2:03 p.m.

Well said, Jade-Lee! I'd be happy to read the Schweyn's book if I thought it was substantially different in tone and content from his dog-whistle racist and islamophobic columns, but I suppose it's more of the same - rather like a Beavis and Butthead annual for those who can't get enough of the comics.

Whinester proves a good disciple of the Schweyn/Morticia school of distortion in writing with this: "The fact that a despicable organization, i.e., Stormfront, appears to like someone because they champion free speech in general does not mean said champion agrees with the opinions of that organization."

First of all, the "white nationaists", white power people do not champion free speech FOR OTHERS - any more than does the Schweyn. They champuion it only for themselves, no matter how abusive or defamatory it is or what unrest it is likely to provoke. And secondly, the Schweyn hardly returned their checque when they published his article.

ROFL ☺

leaf May 12, 2008 at 2:09 p.m.

blondie... blah blah blah...i phone my daughter many times a day. not to worry. nothing can happen. we live in BC where teenage girls are safe. my daughter always listens to me. she tells me so when i phone her... leaf, who is really barbara amiel is such a deceptive person that she can't believe there are honest, open people who post here. Under one identity that is... blah blah blah....

Barbara_in_BC May 12, 2008 at 2:17 p.m.

Do I hear an echo from leaf?

leaf May 12, 2008 at 2:17 p.m.

hey fickton, speaking of "white nationaists", i don't know if you remember but you sent me a link to a "white nationaists" site.

well... i checked it out and found a poster from finland on there. from surka precisely.
he hates pedophiles.
thanks for the link. might be handy after all...

Fintan May 12, 2008 at 2:53 p.m.

I have little interest in ice hockey (sorry, "hockey", as someone recently pointed out is the correct term), but I just met another dog owner who is downright salivating at the prospect of the Suomi-Kanada game, starting at 15.30 Toronto time (40 minutes from now), so I think I'll watch it to try and broaden my interests.

I wonder will Bubba let His Lardship watch that channel if he asks nicely and promises something pleasurable in return? ☺☺☺

leaf May 12, 2008 at 3 p.m.

fickton, you've copied the term "nubar" from me, are you gonna start copying my smilies too?

you are so damn unoriginal, aren't you bored with yourself?!!!

leaf May 12, 2008 at 3:07 p.m.

being the liar, cheater, imposter that you are, it goes to reason that you'd be a copier, an imitator as well.

fickton imitates me. hahaha

Casey May 12, 2008 at 3:11 p.m.

I think what we all want is for leaf to shut the hell up - clearly this ignoramus has nothing to say about anything...what a waste of a life...Meh....

Fintan May 12, 2008 at 3:39 p.m.

☺☺☺☺☺☺
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ROFLMAO

leaf May 12, 2008 at 4:03 p.m.

casey, if you want me to shut up, send the police like you've been promising for months. else, shut up already.

fickton has recently discovered smilies. he's been using at least 3 per line in his mails to me. all different smilies. his knowledgeable of smilies is truly impressive as shown in his post above.

leafmold May 12, 2008 at 4:08 p.m.

This thread has 47 posts by leaf! All but three mention "fickton", who has submitted no posts. Is this some kind of obsession or an "in" joke? can anyone explain? What is this with smilies? Is someone pulling our leg?

leaf May 12, 2008 at 4:19 p.m.

fickton, why do you like plastic sex partners so much?

"I can tell you from experience long ago - in case you haven't tried it - that deflowering virgins is greatly overrated even down here on Earth." ☹

leaf May 12, 2008 at 4:27 p.m.

[This comment has been removed.]

leaf May 12, 2008 at 4:28 p.m.

this should make it an even 50

leaf May 12, 2008 at 4:37 p.m.

[This comment has been removed.]

agnostic May 12, 2008 at 8:45 p.m.

Too bad noway seems to have been too busy to post any details on where s/he had "quoted directly" from. Without that information, the strong words uttered might seem lacking a bit on substance.

Some among those who actually have a clue about the HRCs cases might even suspect that what noway was quoting directly was not Mark Steyn but rather the list of the complainants' interpretations.

Let's hope noway finds the time to post the info to make clear what exactly does s/he mean by "quoting directly".

Jeanne May 12, 2008 at 10:07 p.m.

leafmold: "Fickton" was the name Leaf began calling Fintan by, many months ago, when the Canadian Robert Pickton's Vancouver trial for killing and mutilating the bodies of many prostitutes began.

Leaf's substitution of "Fickton" for Fintan is only one example of how Leaf's mind works. Regular readers have had many others, equally depraved and disgusting, over the last many months. They often feature a personal attack on another poster.

As to the smilies, I suggest you look to the arrangement in the post to understand Fintan's. Leaf's smilies, regular readers here would likely agree, represent insane, sadistic laughter, whether that's what Leaf intended or not.

leaf May 12, 2008 at 10:21 p.m.

jeanne: another of doug's players, the straight one. apparently, spokeswoman for regular readers here.

Fintan May 13, 2008 at 2:43 a.m.

The beginning of day 71 in Coleman for His Lardship. 1,729 to go.

I wonder did he see the hockey game on TV last night? Maybe he sweet-talked Bubba into letting that channel be on. Before I slithered off into bed in embarrassment at the 6-3 hockey lesson, I noticed that Stephen Harper was there and obviously enjoying himself.

Can it be that the Prime Minister of Canada takes the Muslim threat too lightly? What's he doing at a hockey game in the afternoon, when he should be in his office, struggling Churchill-like, to ward off the threat that the Schweyn talks about night and day? One that seemingly few other than the Schweyn and a handful of his like-minded can even see?

Does Mr. Harper really want to live in a Canada where the flag is not a maple leaf, but a palm frond? Where Arabic is the lingua franca and English-speakers gather in small groups in secrecy and fearing for their lives just so they can speak a few sentences of their beloved mother tongue? Where the biggest growth industry is smuggling contraband Bibles?

I bet the Liberal leaders are just as nonchalent about the threat, if not more! Maybe that's what keeps His Lardship going. He dreams the people of Canada will soon wake up and hear the Schweyn's message and then recall him, their one and only Lord, to take the helm and save the day. Thinking of that much denial calls for a few smilies. I think it gives a bit of variety instead of the ROFLMAO that I normally write. Thanks, Jeanne, for the tip in your reply to leafmold. It took me a while to figure it out, so you certainly are sharp.

And it seems to annoy someone very close to His Lardship, but not close in the -- how's yer uncle --- sense any more. Morticia must have cobwebs in it by now. That's why she's so irritable and nasty.

☺☺☺☺☺☺
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Fintan May 13, 2008 at 11:45 a.m.

Ho-ho-ho, fancy that. A reader of his very own Nazional Post having the temerity to lecture His Lardship on a point of grammar. Oh, how have the mighty fallen! ☹

"Re: Meanwhile, In Europe … , Conrad Black, May 10.

"I must admit I am no admirer of Conrad Black. However, until now I could at least respect his generally skillful use of English prose. No more! The fifth paragraph in his Saturday article begins with the phrase: "This begs the question."

"Of all people, Lord Black should know that "begging the question" is a technical term with a very precise definition in Aristotelian logic: assuming the truth of what one is setting out to prove. At least he can take some solace in the fact that this misuse of the term is almost universal among those who write in the public forum these days.

Peter LeBlanc, Camrose, Alta."

This reinforces my suspicion that His Lardship is outlining his articles to Morticia when she visits him and then she writes them up.

What a pair of phonies!

But at least let us give thanks to karma they were never able to breed.
☺ ☺ ☺

Barbara_in_BC May 13, 2008 at 11:59 a.m.

Fintan:

Good catch. The article was probably not written by Conrad Black but his wife. The misuse of the term "begging the question" is almost as universal as the problem people have in distinguishing the difference between complement and compliment. But I'm pretty sure Black wouldn't have made a mistake like that.

Fintan May 13, 2008 at 3:04 p.m.

Once again,

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ROFLMAO @ D's G

noway May 19, 2008 at 2:19 a.m.

Casey says
> These racists and bigots scrae the hell out of me because they attempt to disguise their hatreds behind a veil of manufactured and totally incorrect disinformation as well as presenting a public face of seeming tolerance.

I share your concerns. But what troubles me more is that writers like Steyn are celebrated within the public sphere, like this article demonstrates. Does his writing appeal to a fringe community, or are his opinions shared by the mainstream at large? That's what is worrisome. It is unfortunate, but a segment of the population will always remain bigoted. But I fear that Steyn is fanning the flames of growing Islamophobia in the Western world (more so in Europe than in Canada, where the words I quoted were published in). And in the face of criticism of his blatant bigotry, he has appointed himself as a martyr standing up for free speech.

In no way, shape or form, would the hateful blabbering of this bigot ever be featured within a mainstream news journal were the targets of his writing some other group (especially the Jewish people, who have faced the exact same condemnations from Nazi Germany). Yet we see the same double standards upheld by the editors of Macleans, where Steyn's columns are regularly featured. I wish, that more so than giving publicity to the hateful words of Steyn, the community at large would look at the source of the inequality that permeates the Canadian news networks concerning Muslims and Islam.

agnostic May 22, 2008 at 10:30 p.m.

It seems noway somehow found the time to put together a three paragraph post, yet couldn't spare the time to share the source of those allegedly "direct" quotes.

Could it be that the quotes weren't all that "direct"?

Just wondering ...